Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[powertoold]

Do you guys experience this with FSD beta? It often does an unprotected right despite a car turning into your lane. Is this legal (even if it is, it's unsafe IMO) or is FSD beta not taking these cars into consideration? I personally would have taken over by braking:

 

[thewishmaster]

Do you guys experience this with FSD beta? It often does an unprotected right despite a car turning into your lane. Is this legal (even if it is, it's unsafe IMO) or is FSD beta not taking these cars into consideration? I personally would have taken over by braking:

Looks like a dedicated lane for people turning right, which would be legal. If I were driving myself I would probably have timed it to “fit” in between cars - can never trust people’s lane selections when they turn left …

 

[powertoold]

Looks like a dedicated lane for people turning right, which would be legal

When I look at that intersection, I see 3 lanes for other cars, not a "dedicated" lane for people turning right. If it were dedicated, wouldn't it have a solid line or not be accessible for oncoming traffic? Perhaps I'm wrong. See pic below for dedicated right turn lane example:

Edit: I found that intersection turn here. There doesn't seem to be any dedicated right turn lane.

 

[Gotchaa]

Still on 44.30.5:
I am experience serious lag on camera when reversing, turn signal camera lag and random flashing high beams at night. I also started hearing USB audio interruptions which sounded like electrical signal interruptions or something causing clicking sounds for 2-3 seconds while music was playing, it would overlay the sound.

UI got very slow I did the wheel reboot which seemed to clear up these issues.

I am on HW3, 2018 M3P

Wondering if HW3 and original cameras are going to be a problem long term with Pure Vision and this is just an early warning as the software matured it’s going to require better hardware to perform.

Honestly at one point there was zero connectivity on my display signal turning did not works better level showed “- -“ next to it and I could not get cameras to come up in reverse.

I have never experienced anything like this before.

Luckily reboot cleared all symptoms for now. Seems like a serious memory leak.

Has anyone else experienced any of this?

 

[mackgriggs]

Is he using a cheating device - couple of things stuck to the wheel ? Didn't see him touch the wheel a single time.

Well, there's hands free driving for you.

Yeah, looks like he has weights on the steering wheel. He gives all tesla drivers a bad name.

 

[thewishmaster]

When I look at that intersection, I see 3 lanes for other cars, not a "dedicated" lane for people turning right. If it were dedicated, wouldn't it have a solid line or not be accessible for oncoming traffic? Perhaps I'm wrong. See pic below for dedicated right turn lane example:
Edit: I found that intersection turn here. There doesn't seem to be any dedicated right turn lane.

Ah, you’re right. Risky move in that case.

 

[dawnerd]

FYI I believe AI Addict is an engineer at Tesla, or at least he has had videos/comments in the past suggesting that he is. And I believe he has posted videos of testing Beta builds prior to broader roll-out, so all that might make him more inclined to take bigger risks.

Most of his drive there was terrible. If that pylon was solid metal/concrete, that would have caused some nasty damage

I remember him saying in another video he doesn't work for Tesla. The friend he's always with might though - but his reaction doesn't seem like someone that would work near FSD - they would know the limitations.

 

[AndreP]

I remember him saying in another video he doesn't work for Tesla. The friend he's always with might though - but his reaction doesn't seem like someone that would work near FSD - they would know the limitations.

Yeah I assumed it was either him or his co-pilot who is usually with him, like in this video

But IIRC the person, whoever it is, works on the labelling team. Not sure how software development typically flows, but I'm guessing they have separate teams working on different functions and where each team might not really know how the full suite will work.

 

[coreylista]

Still on 44.30.5:
I am experience serious lag on camera when reversing, turn signal camera lag and random flashing high beams at night. I also started hearing USB audio interruptions which sounded like electrical signal interruptions or something causing clicking sounds for 2-3 seconds while music was playing, it would overlay the sound.

UI got very slow I did the wheel reboot which seemed to clear up these issues.

I am on HW3, 2018 M3P

Wondering if HW3 and original cameras are going to be a problem long term with Pure Vision and this is just an early warning as the software matured it’s going to require better hardware to perform.

Honestly at one point there was zero connectivity on my display signal turning did not works better level showed “- -“ next to it and I could not get cameras to come up in reverse.

I have never experienced anything like this before.

Luckily reboot cleared all symptoms for now. Seems like a serious memory leak.

Has anyone else experienced any of this?

I’ve also noticed a lot of lag with 10.8.1 in multiple areas of the UI, but the cameras for sure. When I open the owners manual while FSD is enabled my entire system comes to a grinding halt… doing a full reboot temporarily helps, but not for long. FSD continues to function just fine most likely because the priority is highest for that function… the UI and camera views for us humans are much lower…

Interestingly I’ve noticed a correlation between the amount of system lag and the cellular signal. If the signal is low or unavailable, (I pass through an AT&T dead zone every day) it definitely lags much more. I setup the car to use my phones hotspot and it seemed to be less laggy…

Obviously streaming music would be affected here, like you mentioned and I experienced odd clicks and music cutting out as well. Also I believe that the the system reaches out to the internet to access the owners manual (possibly for more updated info) so in that case I can sort of understand how that might cause the entire UI to lag, but it doesn’t explain why the cameras are laggy, they shouldn’t be utilizing the cellular system.

I saw somewhere (Twitter I believe) that Tesla is maxing the CPUs to 100%, so like you mentioned a small memory leak or a process hanging-up can quickly become apparent, especially to the lower priority functions.

 

[powertoold]

10.10 isn't better than 10.8.1 for me. 10.10's visualization is improved in a lot of ways: smoother / more fps, more accurate vehicle placement, farther draw distance, etc.

But the actual driving of 10.10 isn't as good as 10.8.1. 10.10 does a lot more weird lane changes for me vs 10.8.1, and it also often fails at the turn out of my neighborhood, which 10.8.1 seemed more successful at.

 

[willow_hiller]

10.10 isn't better than 10.8.1 for me. 10.10's visualization is improved in a lot of ways: smoother / more fps, more accurate vehicle placement, farther draw distance, etc.

But the actual driving of 10.10 isn't as good as 10.8.1.

The funny thing is that all the critics keep saying FSD is impossible because cameras alone cannot sufficiently perceive the world. But it seems for the most part that perception was the easy part; driving policy after perceiving the world is the hard part.

 

[AndreP]

Perceiving the world in a more open environment and good weather conditions is definitely pretty easy for cameras, call that the 90%

Then the last 10% is seeing around blind corners, less-than-ideal weather conditions occluding cameras, etc and that's where stuff like redundancy comes into play

 

[bobby g]

The funny thing is that all the critics keep saying FSD is impossible because cameras alone cannot sufficiently perceive the world. But it seems for the most part that perception was the easy part; driving policy after perceiving the world is the hard part.

Isn't that how we do it but with only two cameras? When there's visibility issues, one slows down

 

[powertoold]

The funny thing is that all the critics keep saying FSD is impossible because cameras alone cannot sufficiently perceive the world. But it seems for the most part that perception was the easy part; driving policy after perceiving the world is the hard part.

I think it's still a perception issue. As Tesla progresses in FSD, they are slowly enabling control for more perceptual objects, and as they do this, there will be more false positives, so the car will erroneously control for more phantom or incorrect predictions. That's why we still have odd lane changes / phantom braking.

Over time, Tesla will enable control for things like misc static objects, potholes, etc you name it, farther draw distance... All of these additional objects to consider will exponentially increase the number of false positives, so Tesla will try to add them slowly, once they reach a certain prediction threshold.

Just my thoughts on this. Elon recently said on the Lex podcast that it's mainly a perception problem, so we should believe that line of thought.

 

[willow_hiller]

That's why we still have odd lane changes / phantom braking.

It's difficult to tell where the source of the error is, isn't it?

Because I would think odd lane changes means it's seeing the lanes perfectly, it just made a weird driving policy decision. Likewise phantom braking could be false positives in the perception stack, or they could equally be poor driving reactions to true positives.

But I guess there are a lot of parts of the perception stack that we cannot see on the FSD visualization. Like the system could be correctly perceiving the depth of a vehicle, but could simultaneously be incorrectly perceiving deceleration, and that would cause phantom braking.

 

[powertoold]

Because I would think odd lane changes means it's seeing the lanes perfectly, it just made a weird driving policy decision.

Ya, difficult to tell for sure because the visualization is made to be user friendly and you're not constantly looking at it.

For example, yesterday I was in a right turn lane and all of a sudden fsd beta decided it needed to get out without signalling or anything. It seemed like it was trying to dodge an object or maybe it thought it was in the wrong lane for a few microseconds? Hard to tell, but it's never done this before on this lane.

 

[Matias]

The funny thing is that all the critics keep saying FSD is impossible because cameras alone cannot sufficiently perceive the world. But it seems for the most part that perception was the easy part; driving policy after perceiving the world is the hard part.

Perception is not always easy

 

[willow_hiller]

Perception is not always easy

I don't see any proof that was a problem of perception.

In fact, if you watch the path planning line, you can see it diverting back and forth between going left around the pylon and going right around it. My guess would be it perceived the pylon, but failed to make a decision about how to route around it mid-turn.

Why else would the path planner oscillate back and forth around the pylon in a fork pattern if it didn't see the obstruction in the first place?

 

[Daniel in SD]

I don't see any proof that was a problem of perception.

In fact, if you watch the path planning line, you can see it diverting back and forth between going left around the pylon and going right around it. My guess would be it perceived the pylon, but failed to make a decision about how to route around it mid-turn.

Why else would the path planner oscillate back and forth around the pylon in a fork pattern if it didn't see the obstruction in the first place?

Looks to me like it's trying to drive in the "lane" between the two white lines. If labelers never labeled a green pylon they could be invisible to to the system (until alien spaceship avoidance (i.e. voxels) is finally turned on).

 

[momo3605]

Looks to me like it's trying to drive in the "lane" between the two white lines. If labelers never labeled a green pylon they could be invisible to to the system (until alien spaceship avoidance (i.e. voxels) is finally turned on).
View attachment 766118

These green pylons are common in Northern California, and I’m pretty sure FSD sees them sometimes. I notice my car will move away a few inches when passing any of these