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Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
- Thread starter jebinc
- Start date
It's really not common at all in the SF Bay Area. We have a few small neighborhood round-abouts in Mountain View but they also have stop signs lmao. Totally defeats the purpose.
It may be up there, but for me, the most common reasons for disengagements is mis-understanding intersections switching to wrong lane, slow and annoyingly holding up other traffic, and jumping out of line when cars slow down in front you.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
We’ll, that could technically apply to roundabouts, too!
I wouldn’t expect SF to have many - it’s already built up and land is at a premium making them less practical.
The roundabouts here in SW Washington--the newer ones anyway--fix that issue by designing the center circle so the truck can drive right over it if necessary.
Here you go. Driving south on Bybee the car stops a couple of car lengths before the stop sign. 1887-1801 SE Bybee Rd · 1887-1801 SE Bybee Rd, Camas, WA 98607
10.11.2 impressions off several drives today, compared to 10.10.2:
Improved:
* Seems to take 4-way stops better when there aren’t many cars around - doesn’t wait as long
* Somewhat smoother; for example if you engage it while moving, there is no longer a jerk as the car accelerates to the set speed. Maybe acceleration overall is smoother in most cases.
* Nice amount of space given to cyclists in most cases. Once it actually rode the lane divider despite the car to my left (the lane was wide and the other car was pretty far to the left already). Though in several other cases cases it seemed to lag - I passed the cyclist and the car swerved even further left a split second later.
Same/worse:
* Same amount of random phantom braking on city streets
* Still does that thing where it will panic brake around 90% of the distance to a stop sign and then gradually slow down from there; maybe even more sudden than before. I thought it was a fluke the first time but it is consistent. Very noticeable on downhill roads. Can slow too soon and really creep to the line on uphill roads.
* Maybe they overcompensated for that video where the Tesla hit a green bollard on fsd beta - a bright green trash bin on the corner of my street was recognized as a cone.
* Tried to change lanes away from cones elsewhere, where there were none to be seen. Best guess is maybe a parked yellow truck directly to my right threw it off.
* Tried to accelerate into a bike lane while “changing lanes to follow route” - no lane change was needed, the bike lane wasn’t wide, and it had parked cars to the right of it so there really was no space for it to go
* Same lane selection issues as 10.10.2 making it impossible to use without input on some of my routes
* For some reason I thought they’d handle lane continuity better and not have the car swerve as much when crossing traffic light-controlled intersections, but it still happens even worse than before somehow
Improved:
* Seems to take 4-way stops better when there aren’t many cars around - doesn’t wait as long
* Somewhat smoother; for example if you engage it while moving, there is no longer a jerk as the car accelerates to the set speed. Maybe acceleration overall is smoother in most cases.
* Nice amount of space given to cyclists in most cases. Once it actually rode the lane divider despite the car to my left (the lane was wide and the other car was pretty far to the left already). Though in several other cases cases it seemed to lag - I passed the cyclist and the car swerved even further left a split second later.
Same/worse:
* Same amount of random phantom braking on city streets
* Still does that thing where it will panic brake around 90% of the distance to a stop sign and then gradually slow down from there; maybe even more sudden than before. I thought it was a fluke the first time but it is consistent. Very noticeable on downhill roads. Can slow too soon and really creep to the line on uphill roads.
* Maybe they overcompensated for that video where the Tesla hit a green bollard on fsd beta - a bright green trash bin on the corner of my street was recognized as a cone.
* Tried to change lanes away from cones elsewhere, where there were none to be seen. Best guess is maybe a parked yellow truck directly to my right threw it off.
* Tried to accelerate into a bike lane while “changing lanes to follow route” - no lane change was needed, the bike lane wasn’t wide, and it had parked cars to the right of it so there really was no space for it to go
* Same lane selection issues as 10.10.2 making it impossible to use without input on some of my routes
* For some reason I thought they’d handle lane continuity better and not have the car swerve as much when crossing traffic light-controlled intersections, but it still happens even worse than before somehow
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Trucks in general for sure, but especially fire apparatus that need to try to traverse them expediently
Wiki - MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences
Stopping at the Sign doesn't solve much. What I would like to see when coming up to a stop sign just slow way down and proceed right to the cross street. I know FSD does this because that is how it handles many T intersections in my neighborhood that DON'T have Stop Signs. Works great once you realize what it's doing. First time it scared me but now I appreciate it. That is how everybody drives them and would avoid the problem where the Stop sign is 10-20 feet from the intersection. When this happens and someone is behind me I have to disengage. Here is a typical example. Maybe 10% of time I don't have to disengage since there is usually cars behind me.
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clydeiii
Member
Not seeing the phantom braking issues you report, but will confirm all of the "bugs" that were on 10.10.2 as they relate to lane selection exist in 10.11.2 on my commute. I was hoping the late 2021 map update would fix these, but there was no change there, and still no change in the most recent update. It just wants to be in the wrong lane in the exact same spots during my commute. I think it has to be mapping issues, but it's unclear.
I went for another drive today (sunny clear weather, mid-day) and took a path with a bunch of 4-way stop signs, and omg it was so bad. I was 0 for 6. Every stop, it would say checking for visibility, and it would crawl slowly to the middle of the intersection before committing. Another couple times, i had to intervene and push the gas because there was traffic.
10.10.2 has always been kinda slow but consistent, after stopping, as long as it's clear, it will commit to going.
Idk if my 10.11.2 is still calibrating or something, but yikes, it was terrible with stop signs today.
I did find on previous versions it will sporadically behave either well or badly. Maybe I got a few good samples on the first day haha. Only saw one "creeping for visibility" into a right-hand turn on a 2-way stop (25mph cross-street) followed by a full stop after completing the turn because it was confused about the perpendicularly parked cars. Started moving again as normal after maybe 10 seconds.
Short drive, about 10 miles round trip. Sent probably 10 AP snapshots.
Some turns are smoother and whimsical hesitations were not common. Great!
But still stopping 30 ft before a stop sign and taking forever to creep and make a simple right turn (at T intersections).
Went into dedicated turning lanes (both left and right sides) at various times when all it had to do was go straight and not turn the wheel, or just follow the car in front.
New behavior: on an unmarked road, the car got confused and started driving completely on the left side of the road for about 5 seconds, then used the turn signal to go back to the right side.
Still likes to hug the center on unmarked roads and moves over way too late when there's an oncoming car.
On a more-than-90-degree left turn, the jitter was incredibly bad.
Car still comes uncomfortably close to the curb on some left and right turns. I'm disengaging as a precaution. Not worth curbing the wheels to see if FSD clears it.
As soon as someone is behind me, I'm manually operating the accelerator because car is too timid (slow) around bends and stop signs. Not necessarily a safety issue, but rather an annoy-others issue.
Overall, can't say 10.11.2 is better. Fewer whimsical hesitations on 2-lane roads is nice. Need to drive more to confirm. Today was overcast, for reference.
Some turns are smoother and whimsical hesitations were not common. Great!
But still stopping 30 ft before a stop sign and taking forever to creep and make a simple right turn (at T intersections).
Went into dedicated turning lanes (both left and right sides) at various times when all it had to do was go straight and not turn the wheel, or just follow the car in front.
New behavior: on an unmarked road, the car got confused and started driving completely on the left side of the road for about 5 seconds, then used the turn signal to go back to the right side.
Still likes to hug the center on unmarked roads and moves over way too late when there's an oncoming car.
On a more-than-90-degree left turn, the jitter was incredibly bad.
Car still comes uncomfortably close to the curb on some left and right turns. I'm disengaging as a precaution. Not worth curbing the wheels to see if FSD clears it.
As soon as someone is behind me, I'm manually operating the accelerator because car is too timid (slow) around bends and stop signs. Not necessarily a safety issue, but rather an annoy-others issue.
Overall, can't say 10.11.2 is better. Fewer whimsical hesitations on 2-lane roads is nice. Need to drive more to confirm. Today was overcast, for reference.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I experience both of these issues on a regular basis on 10.10.2 so they're not new, even if they're new to you.
More 10.11.2 impressions:
* I think they left the "Merging away from cones" message for any kind of "going around obstacle" case - I got the same message earlier today as it merged left to go around a car that was parked and partially obstructing the lane. Previously I saw it as it was preparing to go around a car waiting in front of me at a stop light.
* Still puzzling where it decides to drive on unmarked roads. Seems to drift further towards the middle the farther it goes down the road, and then it will pull close to the right when it’s time to make a right turn. I was stuck behind a bus and it felt like it wanted to pass the bus because it was driving roughly centered behind the left edge of the bus.
* While it does react quicker to take its right of way when there aren’t any cars competing for it, it needs to make even snappier decisions about it - still too slow to leave it alone when there are more than a few cars around, and does not accelerate quickly enough.
* Also one more observation on lane selection issues - there might be a slight improvement from 10.10.2. I have one intersection I pass that has 2 lanes, left lane going left and right lane going straight. Since the new maps FSD beta has been indiscriminately placing itself in the left lane without any awareness that it is a turn lane. Today I let it do its thing because there were no cars in the right lane, and lo and behold, at the last second it did merge right, across a solid line and with 2 other cars waiting for the left turn in front. It did not visualize at least one of the left arrows painted on the ground, but it must have detected the left turn lane anyway. Will need to see if this is consistent behavior as it has also tried merging left from the right lane at the same intersection in the past.
* Also sent a bunch more snapshots because the car sporadically refused to move at green lights or tried stopping in the middle of the street for no particular reason. One of the times was because it seemed to want to yield for a pedestrian waiting for their light in the median on the other side of the intersection, an issue I've seen on older versions
* I think they left the "Merging away from cones" message for any kind of "going around obstacle" case - I got the same message earlier today as it merged left to go around a car that was parked and partially obstructing the lane. Previously I saw it as it was preparing to go around a car waiting in front of me at a stop light.
* Still puzzling where it decides to drive on unmarked roads. Seems to drift further towards the middle the farther it goes down the road, and then it will pull close to the right when it’s time to make a right turn. I was stuck behind a bus and it felt like it wanted to pass the bus because it was driving roughly centered behind the left edge of the bus.
* While it does react quicker to take its right of way when there aren’t any cars competing for it, it needs to make even snappier decisions about it - still too slow to leave it alone when there are more than a few cars around, and does not accelerate quickly enough.
* Also one more observation on lane selection issues - there might be a slight improvement from 10.10.2. I have one intersection I pass that has 2 lanes, left lane going left and right lane going straight. Since the new maps FSD beta has been indiscriminately placing itself in the left lane without any awareness that it is a turn lane. Today I let it do its thing because there were no cars in the right lane, and lo and behold, at the last second it did merge right, across a solid line and with 2 other cars waiting for the left turn in front. It did not visualize at least one of the left arrows painted on the ground, but it must have detected the left turn lane anyway. Will need to see if this is consistent behavior as it has also tried merging left from the right lane at the same intersection in the past.
* Also sent a bunch more snapshots because the car sporadically refused to move at green lights or tried stopping in the middle of the street for no particular reason. One of the times was because it seemed to want to yield for a pedestrian waiting for their light in the median on the other side of the intersection, an issue I've seen on older versions
There are a bunch near SF State and above West Portal.
The photo shows one in Burlingame that Tesla doesn’t know about — it tries to run over it when going straight into Lang Road and ignores traffic that will hit you when exiting straight from Lang road.
CWhite
2020 Model S LR+
Wondering if anyone else has noticed this. Driving down a 4 lane/45mph large, well marked street. Over a mile from an navigation planned right turn, in the right lane. Several times the left turn signal ‘blipped’ not even one full blink. Never had that before, I am on FSD 10.11.2
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