Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

MASTER THREAD: Comprehensive Road-Course Modification Guide — Optimizing the 3 for the track

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Team,

Me and my M3P are signed up for a 2-day performance driving course on 9-10 Oct! There Is a Supercharger about 20 minutes away from the track and they confirmed available 240v outlets.

Current mods:
-MPP Comfort Adjustables
-MPP FUCAs
-MPP Rear Camber and Toe arms
-MPP Master Cylinder Brace
-MPP Compression Rod Bushings

Last Successful AutoX Alignment:
-F: ~3.1 Camber, 0mm Toe
-R: ~2.1 Camber, 1.5mm toe out
-Placed 6/15 PAX, 4/15 RAW, on all-seasons.

Stuff sitting in my garage:
-MPP SS Brake Lines / RBF600 fluid
-6-Piston Brembo front BBK (370mm)
-UP Rear Anti-Sway bar
—(To bring handling balance a hair forward and help offset the softer Comfort coils. It might be a bit heavier than I need so I expect I’ll want to experiment with zero rear toe or even adding some rear toe-in, plus a more neutral or even forward Track Mode bias).

Stuff in the mail:
-19x9.5+22 wheels
-275/35R19 Federal 595RS-Pros

Planned starting alignment:
-F: ~3.1 Camber, 0mm Toe
-R: ~2.5 Camber, 0mm Toe
-Rear UP Anti-sway bar on its softest setting.

Any other setup tips? I have been eyeballing the MPP rear motor cooler given how many times I have seen my rear motor displayed in orange during just AutoX or even driving around on a hot day. Do I not need to worry about that for now?

Thanks!

@MountainPass @MasterC17 @tm1v2 @Sam1@gearchruncher @dsgerbc @Motion122 @SK360 @dfwatt @TacoSteve
 
  • Like
Reactions: TacoSteve and tm1v2
Team,

Me and my M3P are signed up for a 2-day performance driving course on 9-10 Oct! There Is a Supercharger about 20 minutes away from the track and they confirmed available 240v outlets.

Current mods:
-MPP Comfort Adjustables
-MPP FUCAs
-MPP Rear Camber and Toe arms
-MPP Master Cylinder Brace
-MPP Compression Rod Bushings

Last Successful AutoX Alignment:
-F: ~3.1 Camber, 0mm Toe
-R: ~2.1 Camber, 1.5mm toe out
-Placed 6/15 PAX, 4/15 RAW, on all-seasons.

Stuff sitting in my garage:
-MPP SS Brake Lines / RBF600 fluid
-6-Piston Brembo front BBK (370mm)
-UP Rear Anti-Sway bar
—(To bring handling balance a hair forward and help offset the softer Comfort coils. It might be a bit heavier than I need so I expect I’ll want to experiment with zero rear toe or even adding some rear toe-in, plus a more neutral or even forward Track Mode bias).

Stuff in the mail:
-19x9.5+22 wheels
-275/35R19 Federal 595RS-Pros

Planned starting alignment:
-F: ~3.1 Camber, 0mm Toe
-R: ~2.5 Camber, 0mm Toe
-Rear UP Anti-sway bar on its softest setting.

Any other setup tips? I have been eyeballing the MPP rear motor cooler given how many times I have seen my rear motor displayed in orange during just AutoX or even driving around on a hot day. Do I not need to worry about that for now?

Thanks!

@MountainPass @MasterC17 @tm1v2 @Sam1@gearchruncher @dsgerbc @Motion122 @SK360 @dfwatt @TacoSteve
Looks like you have a very good starting point. I'd say is maybe not install the sway bar yet. See how it feels first. As far as the cooler goes I wouldn't worry too much about that, but if you do want to maximize power on the track you need a way to monitor battery and motor temps. Easiest way to do this is with the scanmytesla app with the bluetooth dongle. Most people are running into battery thermal limits too soon because they don't cool the battery down after supercharging. You can cool down by driving back to the track in TrackMode or with the MPP cooling party controller.

Hope this helps. Have fun out there.
 
Looks like you have a very good starting point. I'd say is maybe not install the sway bar yet. See how it feels first. As far as the cooler goes I wouldn't worry too much about that, but if you do want to maximize power on the track you need a way to monitor battery and motor temps. Easiest way to do this is with the scanmytesla app with the bluetooth dongle. Most people are running into battery thermal limits too soon because they don't cool the battery down after supercharging. You can cool down by driving back to the track in TrackMode or with the MPP cooling party controller.

Hope this helps. Have fun out there.
Thanks!

It’s funny, I have tens of thousands of miles on two wheels, which might be driving my deep discomfort with understeer. On a motorcycle, when the rear steps out, you ride through it. When the front steps out, you tend to smash bodily into the ground. However, after the alignment tweaks (and front compression rod bushings) which collectively helped improve front traction and impose a little more rotational tendency, I can feel the rear end now tends to get insecure before the front on sweeping turns (speeds are higher, so it is just that the front has gained a lot of capability).

My thought was I can re-balance the heavier rear bar with a more stability-focused rear alignment profile (0 or 1mm toe-in, and a half-degree more negative camber), but perhaps I will just bring the anti-sway bar and ask the instructors, and maybe swap it out between track days.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TacoSteve
I can feel the rear end now tends to get insecure before the front on sweeping turns (speeds are higher, so it is just that the front has gained a lot of capability).

My thought was I can re-balance the heavier rear bar with a more stability-focused rear alignment profile .
Thicker rear swaybar will make the rear end even looser. At least in theory.
I'd zero out the rear toe and go from there. If it still feels loose with a mild toe-in then investigate. Maybe you're riding on bumpstops given that you're on comfort springs, and adding more roll resistance *could* help. A preferred way would be stiffer springs though.

If you just mounted your new coilovers, you'd need to re-align soon anyway, since springs need some time to settle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lindenwood
Thanks!

It’s funny, I have tens of thousands of miles on two wheels, which might be driving my deep discomfort with understeer. On a motorcycle, when the rear steps out, you ride through it. When the front steps out, you tend to smash bodily into the ground. However, after the alignment tweaks (and front compression rod bushings) which collectively helped improve front traction and impose a little more rotational tendency, I can feel the rear end now tends to get insecure before the front on sweeping turns (speeds are higher, so it is just that the front has gained a lot of capability).

My thought was I can re-balance the heavier rear bar with a more stability-focused rear alignment profile (0 or 1mm toe-in, and a half-degree more negative camber), but perhaps I will just bring the anti-sway bar and ask the instructors, and maybe swap it out between track days.
@Lindenwood If the rear is consistently stepping out first, then I would just try the rear alignment tweak alone personally. Stiffening the rear suspension further with that bigger bar won't add any more overall grip, right? You'll just get the rear stepping out even easier. Fun maybe but not faster.

If the goal is to reduce lean then my advice is still switch to stiffer coilovers before considering beefier sway bars. I think that will give you better overall handling and equal or better ride quality, than pairing beefy sways on the Comfort coilovers. (Obviously this depends on exactly how much stiffer we're talking for each option. I'm not suggesting race-focused coilovers!)

I'm the least experienced person chiming in here so feel free to ignore my advice, it's just my 2c. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lindenwood
Thicker rear swaybar will make the rear end even looser. At least in theory.
I'd zero out the rear toe and go from there. If it still feels loose with a mild toe-in then investigate. Maybe you're riding on bumpstops given that you're on comfort springs, and adding more roll resistance *could* help. A preferred way would be stiffer springs though.

If you just mounted your new coilovers, you'd need to re-align soon anyway, since springs need some time to settle.

@Lindenwood If the rear is consistently stepping out first, then I would just try the rear alignment tweak alone personally. Stiffening the rear suspension further with that bigger bar won't add any more overall grip, right? You'll just get the rear stepping out even easier. Fun maybe but not faster.

If the goal is to reduce lean then my advice is still switch to stiffer coilovers before considering beefier sway bars. I think that will give you better overall handling and equal or better ride quality, than pairing beefy sways on the Comfort coilovers. (Obviously this depends on exactly how much stiffer we're talking for each option. I'm not suggesting race-focused coilovers!)

I'm the least experienced person chiming in here so feel free to ignore my advice, it's just my 2c. :)
I think I can be clearer! Before the above mods, during my first AutoX, easily 90% of my instances overcoming traction hit the front end only. On a 270-degree, constant-speed ramp in my commute, I was limited to about about 53mph before things got uncomfortable (for the street) where, specifically, the front end (through the steering) would get numb before anything felt different in the rear.

With the mods, and the rear toe-out, I am seeing more neutrality in tighter corners, but on slower-speed turns I am still feeling a bit more understeer tendency than oversteer. The rear really only steps out when I already have that axle loaded coming out of a corner, and ramp up throttle too early.

On ramp I mentioned earlier, what used to be a 53mph limit has crept up to a 56+ MPH limit, and the rear now feels like it is more the limiting axle than the front. Here, I am attributing a lot of that to the toe-out.

So, my thought was for AutoX I can use the rear bar to move steering bias a bit more forward, and dial-out corner-exit oversteer with TM’s traction bias first, and then getting rid of toe-out second. Then, for the higher-speed road course, I was thinking I could increase overall rear grip and stability by going to zero toe or 1mm toe-in while adding camber.

So, to be clear the heavier bar is more for AutoX since I expect to do that several more times this year (and start to get reasonably competitive at the amateur level) versus the one road coarse event.

Thank you guys for the discussion!
 
@Lindenwood Okay that makes sense to me. (Again, for expert advice look elsewhere, anything I post here is just my 2c and it's probably not worth that much!)

I guess the only thing to watch out for, besides ride quality impact, is if that bar is too beefy for your Comfort springs and you start lifting the inside rear wheel. I've no idea if there's any real risk of this with your setup. If it happens when you try to get on the power you'll surely notice the wheelspin. I didn't experience that with my last ICE car, where I upgraded both front and rear sways, but I know it can happen with soft springs + beefy sway bar + lots of grip to really push against that inside spring.

You've probably experienced bits of inside rear wheel spin already in this car with the driving you've been doing. :)
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Lindenwood
and dial-out corner-exit oversteer with TM’s traction bias first
I'd try dialing it out with smoother go-pedal application first. You setup should be reasonably balanced as is. Maybe just drive it for a while w/o constantly messing with settings.

If that's not your style, try messing with your adjustable shocks. On corner exit your rear shocks are in bump, and the fronts are in rebound. Soften the rear bump or stiffen the front rebound to get a hair more rear grip in this transition.
 
I'd try dialing it out with smoother go-pedal application first. You setup should be reasonably balanced as is. Maybe just drive it for a while w/o constantly messing with settings.

If that's not your style, try messing with your adjustable shocks. On corner exit your rear shocks are in bump, and the fronts are in rebound. Soften the rear bump or stiffen the front rebound to get a hair more rear grip in this transition.
Thanks for the notes on shock adjustments! Yes, “drive better” is also on the list of things to do ;) . My point was that the ONLY time I was seeing oversteer during the last AutoX event was when I was being goofy with the throttle on corner exit, whereas I would be comfortable with a little more than that. If the bar takes things too far, I was just listing my initial mitigation plans (for both AutoX and, separately, the road course).
 
Last edited:
Car setup in general. I understand what toe/camber/caster/bump/rebound do, but have no idea about making correct adjustments based on how the car is behaving.

This video is all it took for me to understand what I needed to do. As he describes, I am still getting a feel for how much each adjustment affects final wheel position, but it is not a steep learning curve.

The ONLY note is that checking alignment is easy, but the time to actually adjust isn’t as quick as putting it on a rack and cranking away with wrenches until lights turn green.

I have found myself taking the following steps often:

1) In the morning, check alignment (10 minutes to measure toe and camber at each end / corner)

2) Adjust alignment (another 5-20 minutes to actually make any adjustments, especially for the rear since I have been removing the wheels).

One could easily just do a lap around the neighborhood after each set of adjustments and have it dialed in within a few hours after the first install. In any case, after several rounds of this I am approaching the point to where I can get things to within about 1mm (~0.1 degree) on the first try (and managed to nail toe on the first try on my first AutoX with the FUCAs).

Overall, yes, I certainly envy the ability to take 5 minutes on a rack getting everything aligned perfectly. However, each trip to an alignment shop is still a 2-3hr chunk of the day plus a hundred bucks, so given the value of my time I will be coming out way ahead after just a few track days.

Note:

I use the toe plates in the MPP video, but for camber I use a 24” Right-angle Square butted vertically against the bottom of a tire, and a micrometer’s depth gauge to measure the distance from the square to the top and bottom edges of the wheel. I am away from home but I’ll snap a pic of the process for the group.

1F3F665D-01D7-4EAD-B958-8BCF48699FB0.png
 
It stopped me from editing my post, but this is what I use to measure camber on a flat surface (like my garage floor).

D4FD0300-3CAE-4D15-886C-131B7B72E530.png


Short side on the ground, perpendicular to the wheel, with the long side pushed vertically against the tire. With any camber, the face of the wheel is not parallel to the vertical edge of the Square. Measure the distance from the closest edge of the square to the top and bottom of the wheel, and use standard trig to calculate the angle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Theraven and tm1v2
It stopped me from editing my post, but this is what I use to measure camber on a flat surface (like my garage floor).

View attachment 831918

Short side on the ground, perpendicular to the wheel, with the long side pushed vertically against the tire. With any camber, the face of the wheel is not parallel to the vertical edge of the Square. Measure the distance from the closest edge of the square to the top and bottom of the wheel, and use standard trig to calculate the angle.
This is nifty - assuming you check the floor/ground for level & straight first?
 
This is nifty - assuming you check the floor/ground for level & straight first?
Yeah, the risk comes if the ground isn’t as level as I think. However, I have tried parking my car in different areas of my garage (3-car garage) and gotten the same result, so I know it is close.

But yes, even a 3mm surface undulation, which would be difficult to detect, would result in about a half-degree error on actual camber. So, while this method does require the ground around the wheel to be pretty smooth the flip side is this method does not require the ground to be perfectly level, which is probably even less common.

The other home camber method would be using a good ($100+) bubble camber gauge arguably capable of <.25 degree resolution and precision, but it would be difficult to confirm that you haven’t inadvertently parked on a 0.25-degree slope, which would also drive a half degree of total camber error.

Either method is probably fine for a suburban garage or most driveways, but making the tweaks in the track parking lot (or the supercharging station, line I did :D) becomes a lot less predictable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: superflyrolla