drpheta
Member
What's the height of that jack at the pad?Yup. I have two identical jacks and blocks. I used them today to install my rear anti-sway bar.
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What's the height of that jack at the pad?Yup. I have two identical jacks and blocks. I used them today to install my rear anti-sway bar.
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"This is the way"Yup. I have two identical jacks and blocks. I used them today to install my rear anti-sway bar.
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Honestly I have been wrenching a while and have literally never seen or heard of a modern hydraulic Jack rapidly failing. Yes, they all eventually get to where they won’t hold pressure, but all the “the jack broke and the car killed him” stories I have ever heard were from scissor jacks or 1960s bumper jacks. So, I usually let down the arm against the wood block, pump it once to get some pressure back, and trust that the .01% chance the jack loses integrity and the .01% chance the wood can’t hold to stack in my favor."This is the way"
I would actually advise to use a 4x4 just for added strength, but you'll have to trim it a bit to make it fit
"This is the way"
I completely agree, just don't want to be responsible for someones death by recommending a 2x4 when/if that .01% happens. No one should be entrusting their life to a couple of dudes on the internet anyway lol. #useatyourownrisk #payaprofessionalifyouhavetoaskHonestly I have been wrenching a while and have literally never seen or heard of a modern hydraulic Jack rapidly failing. Yes, they all eventually get to where they won’t hold pressure, but all the “the jack broke and the car killed him” stories I have ever heard were from scissor jacks or 1960s bumper jacks. So, I usually let down the arm against the wood block, pump it once to get some pressure back, and trust that the .01% chance the jack loses integrity and the .01% chance the wood can’t hold to stack in my favor.
Yeah, this pic was immediately after I cut the 2x4s. Since then I have run bolts through the 2x4s to prevent them from splitting!I also have that jack from before I had a Tesla , but it's not low-profile enough to fit under my car (~100mm jacking point to ground) with a hockey puck Tesla adapter. I guess one could get some thin jack adapters, but I have another jack that's low enough.
I'd be concerned that that 2x4 would get split if the jack blows a seal somehow, but that's a very low probability event. It's much more likely to seep slowly.
Idk, I don't feel comfortable lifting one side of the car pretty high up with just the rubber pad friction stopping the jack from sliding out. I like to have a physical wedge of some sorts in there when there both lifting and tilting.The lift pucks are good for someone who isn’t familiar, but they aren’t necessary when using any jack with a flat lift pad.
That’s fair! I have always lifted the car in 3 steps, adding an intermediate initial lift on one side to minimize the lateral angle, so I understand how you feel!Idk, I don't feel comfortable lifting one side of the car pretty high up with just the rubber pad friction stopping the jack from sliding out. I like to have a physical wedge of some sorts in there when there both lifting and tilting.
As long as the jack is free to roll as the car shifts it should be okay. At the track we normally lift from the rear jackpoint because you can get both front and rear tires off the ground easier from there. So no need to jack up 4 times, just twice. And yeah no lifting pucks are used, my car barely fits the jack without jack pucks.Idk, I don't feel comfortable lifting one side of the car pretty high up with just the rubber pad friction stopping the jack from sliding out. I like to have a physical wedge of some sorts in there when there both lifting and tilting.
Just for reference to any future readers:Team,
Me and my M3P are signed up for a 2-day performance driving course on 9-10 Oct! There Is a Supercharger about 20 minutes away from the track and they confirmed available 240v outlets.
Current mods:
-MPP Comfort Adjustables
-MPP FUCAs
-MPP Rear Camber and Toe arms
-MPP Master Cylinder Brace
-MPP Compression Rod Bushings
Last Successful AutoX Alignment:
-F: ~3.1 Camber, 0mm Toe
-R: ~2.1 Camber, 1.5mm toe out
-Placed 6/15 PAX, 4/15 RAW, on all-seasons.
Stuff sitting in my garage:
-MPP SS Brake Lines / RBF600 fluid
-6-Piston Brembo front BBK (370mm)
-UP Rear Anti-Sway bar
—(To bring handling balance a hair forward and help offset the softer Comfort coils. It might be a bit heavier than I need so I expect I’ll want to experiment with zero rear toe or even adding some rear toe-in, plus a more neutral or even forward Track Mode bias).
Stuff in the mail:
-19x9.5+22 wheels
-275/35R19 Federal 595RS-Pros
Planned starting alignment:
-F: ~3.1 Camber, 0mm Toe
-R: ~2.5 Camber, 0mm Toe
-Rear UP Anti-sway bar on its softest setting.
Any other setup tips? I have been eyeballing the MPP rear motor cooler given how many times I have seen my rear motor displayed in orange during just AutoX or even driving around on a hot day. Do I not need to worry about that for now?
Thanks!
@MountainPass @MasterC17 @tm1v2 @Sam1@gearchruncher @dsgerbc @Motion122 @SK360 @dfwatt @TacoSteve
After measuring the factory rear performance bar, I realized the UP bar is not nearly as significant a difference as I expected. What is advertised as a near-300% increase in bar spring rate actually refers only to the LR bar, whereas the factory Performance rear bar is only roughly ~10% softer (about 10 ft/lb spring rate) than the UP bar at the softest setting. Thus, I went ahead and installed the UP bar at the softest setting, and the difference has been too subtle to notice during normal street driving (which I wanted). I will continue to experiment.
Tube diameter (mm) | Spring rate (lbs/in) | Increase in stiffness from LR AWD non-P | |
OEM front | 29 | 650 | 0 |
OEM rear | 16 | 40 | 0 |
OEM P rear | 19.6 | 103 | 256% |
UPP front | 31.8 | 740-1075 | 14%-65% |
UPP rear | 22.2 | 114-150 | 285-375% |
UPP comp | 25 | >150 | >375% |
MPP front | 32 | 741-832 | 14-28% |
MPP rear | 22 | 112-130 or (44-51) | 280%-325% (9-27% advertised) |
The rear Performance bar is 19.6mm, and I measured the rest of the dimensions and used this site to calculate. I estimated wall thickness, but between .1” walls and fully solid the rate only change from about 90lb/ft to about 115lb/ft, so I just estimated it in the middle at around 100 lb/ft effective rate. Your chart seems in line with this.Car looks great and this is great info. Where did you happen to find the OEM Performance rear sway bar rate?
When purchasing sway bars, I made a comparison chart of the aftermarket options. If the OEM P bar is about 103 lbs/in, this makes me realize the MPP rear bar is actually pretty similar to UPP. I'm sure they would tell us the actual spring rate because they're awesome.
Tube diameter (mm) Spring rate (lbs/in) Increase in stiffness from LR AWD non-P OEM front 29 650 0 OEM rear 16 40 0 OEM P rear 19.6 103 256% UPP front 31.8 740-1075 14%-65% UPP rear 22.2 114-150 285-375% UPP comp 25 >150 >375% MPP front 32 741-832 14-28% MPP rear 22 112-130 or (44-51) 280%-325% (9-27% advertised)
Painted the wheels black this week before a car show today! I drove 170 miles round trip for the event. Honestly these tires really aren’t that loud—I am not sure my wife will notice the whirr at typical 75-80mph highway speeds. That said, they really start singing above 100mph hahaha.After measuring the factory rear performance bar, I realized the UP bar is not nearly as significant a difference as I expected. What is advertised as a near-300% increase in bar spring rate actually refers only to the LR bar, whereas the factory Performance rear bar is only roughly ~10% softer (about 10 ft/lb spring rate) than the UP bar at the softest setting. Thus, I went ahead and installed the UP bar at the softest setting, and the difference has been too subtle to notice during normal street driving (which I wanted). I will continue to experiment.
Oh, I got the race tires mounted
Just for reference to any future readers:
After measuring the factory rear performance bar, I realized the UP bar is not nearly as significant a difference as I thought. What is advertised as a near-300% increase in bar spring rate actually refers only to the LR bar, whereas the factory Performance rear bar is only roughly ~10% softer (about 10 ft/lb spring rate) than the UP bar at the softest setting. Thus, I went ahead and installed the UP bar at the softest setting, and the difference has been too subtle to notice during normal street driving (which Is what wanted). I will continue to experiment with bar and damper settings.
I also got the race tires mounted:
Tires: 275/35R19 Federal 595RS-Pros (which are much quieter than the reports I heard about the RS-RRs)
Wheels: Cheapo 19x9.5+22 (24lb) on sale for $205 each at bbwheelsonline.com. (Plug: they actually had me call them to discuss the aggressive offset, and were enthusiastic when I sent them pics and specs of my current setup with spaced-out Uberturbines).
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And I saw my 4-year-old went out and put his two “Baby Teswas” next to my car this morning, so I couldn’t pass up a pic of that .
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Just for reference, this is the issue @squareblock is asking about:I've noticed the steering "sport mode" feels lighter with the last few software updates. Does this affect handling on the track? Or it doesn't matter for you guys?
I leave it in Comfort. Even then it's a lot of work after a full day on track. There's genuinely no reason, in my opinion, to increase the effort required to turn the wheel beyond maybe personal preference.I've noticed the steering "sport mode" feels lighter with the last few software updates. Does this affect handling on the track? Or it doesn't matter for you guys?
Another reason is "because racecar." In the sim-racing world, people spend crazy money for powerful wheels that'd easily sprain their owners' wrists.I leave it in Comfort. Even then it's a lot of work after a full day on track. There's genuinely no reason, in my opinion, to increase the effort required to turn the wheel beyond maybe personal preference.
As an owner of 20nm sim wheel, I have to say, that the power there is not for information, but for engagement. Since it's the only force pushing on you, that's what you're physically fighting against. And "crazy" money (less than FUCA cost) there just for detailed direct drive servo motor, not for the force itself.Another reason is "because racecar." In the sim-racing world, people spend crazy money for powerful wheels that'd easily sprain their owners' wrists.
Personally, I don't think the amount of effort it takes to steer has much impact on the amount of information the steering feedback offers. Comfort for me as well.