Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

[Sophias_dad]

I'm having the same dilemma. Tesla guy said it wasn't good to leave car connected every day at all... which is exactly what I was thinking of doing, since my wife drives from 0 to 20 miles a day on average. He said to always let the battery get discharged to about 30% (not lower than 20%), before charging it back to 90%. And that'd take like 2 days at 115V.

I'm open to suggestions for the cheapest way to solve the issue. My house is 2 years old, and with only 1 dual 115V outlet in the garage. The breaker box is on a corner of the garage (outside), so probably the easiest way would be to drill the wall and install an outlet right by the box but on the inside... but it'd be on the other side of the EV, so I'd need a long cable, like the 18' one from the wall charger, but $500 on top of installation? How long is the cable that comes with the car to hook up to a NEMA 14-50 adapter? Does the 115V cable from the car come with a regular 115V outlet, or it has to be a NEMA 14-50, like 240V dryers? All help appreciated . My wife wants a Tesla, and now that a dealer is opening next week, will probably buy her the 2021 M3 LR she wants, but need to sort this mess. By the way, the only supercharger in town is 2 miles from our house, so we'd have that option too. Not sure if it's 75kW, 150, or both (would have to investigate). Thx.

Gen 2 Mobile Connector Bundle says the unit that comes with the car has a 20 foot cord. It also shows you exactly the items that come with the car, regarding the UMC anyway(the car comes with the j1772 adapter as well)

Gen 2 NEMA Adapters shows you the $35 adapters that are available from Tesla, and also the charge speeds you'd get from them. Note that the only one you might be interested in initially is 5-20, if your outlets are already 20 amp.

 

[Partsguy100]

I'm having the same dilemma. Tesla guy said it wasn't good to leave car connected every day at all... which is exactly what I was thinking of doing, since my wife drives from 0 to 20 miles a day on average. He said to always let the battery get discharged to about 30% (not lower than 20%), before charging it back to 90%. And that'd take like 2 days at 115V.

I'm open to suggestions for the cheapest way to solve the issue. My house is 2 years old, and with only 1 dual 115V outlet in the garage. The breaker box is on a corner of the garage (outside), so probably the easiest way would be to drill the wall and install an outlet right by the box but on the inside... but it'd be on the other side of the EV, so I'd need a long cable, like the 18' one from the wall charger, but $500 on top of installation? How long is the cable that comes with the car to hook up to a NEMA 14-50 adapter? Does the 115V cable from the car come with a regular 115V outlet, or it has to be a NEMA 14-50, like 240V dryers? All help appreciated . My wife wants a Tesla, and now that a dealer is opening next week, will probably buy her the 2021 M3 LR she wants, but need to sort this mess. By the way, the only supercharger in town is 2 miles from our house, so we'd have that option too. Not sure if it's 75kW, 150, or both (would have to investigate). Thx.

Not sure about the LR but Tesla is offering free supercharging for a year with all deliveries in 2020. If you wife is only driving 20 miles a day, get the Standard Plus and buy yourself a year to figure it out. The super charger is only 2 miles from your house. Win, win, win.

 

[jeremymc7]

The way Tesla wrote this offer it seems like it’s really just locally stocked vehicles. I really can’t see people ordering and receiving cars in time. In his wife’s case there’s not really much difference between the standard free 1000 miles for a year and unlimited for a year. If his wife drive the 20 miles every day that’s 5120. Minus the 1000 free standard miles that’s 4120. Since she drives 0-20 miles each day, say cut it in half so 2160 miles. The cost of electricity varies but the cost on 2160 is negligible. But yes if there’s a stocked car that’s acceptable and you can get it before the cutoff I guess why not. I’m assuming there’s a reason for the LR instead of the SR+ in my case it was so I use it on trips if I wished and so be it trips or around town I wouldn’t have to “top off” as often.

 

[JCtx]

If you wife is only driving 20 miles a day, get the Standard Plus

We need the LR, since we'd use it to travel as well. Even with the LR, we'll have to stop more often than we're used to. Our most often trip is to Austin, where our daughter lives, and we'd probably use the 1,000 free miles in one trip (it's 1,200 miles round trip, plus what we drive there). Are they offering that even on ordered cars delivered before 2021? Salesman didn't say anything. To demand it. Ha ha.

 

[jeremymc7]

The promotion applies to any inventory Model 3 and Model Y vehicles that can be delivered to or accepted by a customer between December 12 and the end of the day on December 31st. The promotion will not take immediate effect and will be applied within the first two weeks of January,

After the promotion becomes active, a message will display in the vehicle and in the app, confirming that the driver has access to free Supercharging. The promotion will last for 365 days from when the promo message first appears in the car and on the Tesla Smartphone app.

NOTE: Inventory cars are quite often showroom cars. Cars that have never been registered and are technically new but have been sat in, used, and driven. This is visible on the website by the amount of miles. A factory fresh car is typically 50 miles five or take. A demo or service car will have a couple / fee thousands miles.

Basically you need to find a stock car in your local area inventory. If it’s not in your local area you have to pay to have it transferred; which will cost more than the value of the one year supercharging; and accept and pay for it before end of year. This is an attempt to flush out all stock cars before end of quarter / year to boost revenue reports. If you order before end of year but don’t accept / pay until they can’t count the sale without the revenue.

 

[pjensen]

I'm having the same dilemma. Tesla guy said it wasn't good to leave car connected every day at all... which is exactly what I was thinking of doing, since my wife drives from 0 to 20 miles a day on average. He said to always let the battery get discharged to about 30% (not lower than 20%), before charging it back to 90%. And that'd take like 2 days at 115V.

I'm open to suggestions for the cheapest way to solve the issue. My house is 2 years old, and with only 1 dual 115V outlet in the garage.

You don't have to charge it up all the way, in one night.

My routine is to run the car down to 30% to 40%, then charge it over night. Usually that brings it up to 80%. I only charge the car once ever 3 to 4 days.

The 115 volt outlet works great. I average 20 to 30 miles a day. I have a spare 50 amp panel with breakers in the garage. It was for a pool that I never put in. My plan was to use it but found out within a week, that I didn't need it.

When I said I left it plugged in, I was talking about the charger cord (that came free with the car). The charger connector end hangs near my car. I just pick it up, push the button (on the charge cord), and the car charge port opens. Insert it and walk away. Zero cost...

 

[JCtx]

Thank you. I just checked on the garage circuit, and I don't think it'd work for me. The circuit has a 15A breaker, and it covers the 3 garage outlets, but one of them is for the garage opener. The second is for the irrigation box, which probably draws minimal power. But if car is charging, and opener is activated, I'm almost sure it'd trip the breaker. Supposedly the car draws 12A max, but I'm sure the opener draws more than 3. That would be a no-go for me. I'd have to install a dedicated outlet from the electrical box outside the garage, hopefully without having to drill the outside of the house, which I don't want to do. What a PITA. Ha ha.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Thank you. I just checked on the garage circuit, and I don't think it'd work for me. The circuit has a 15A breaker, and it covers the 3 garage outlets, but one of them is for the garage opener. The second is for the irrigation box, which probably draws minimal power. But if car is charging, and opener is activated, I'm almost sure it'd trip the breaker. Supposedly the car draws 12A max, but I'm sure the opener draws more than 3. That would be a no-go for me. I'd have to install a dedicated outlet from the electrical box outside the garage, hopefully without having to drill the outside of the house, which I don't want to do. What a PITA. Ha ha.

I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, actually. The irrigation box takes almost nothing, and the garage door opener doesn't take much, and what little it doesn't take it for long(10 seconds or so, but you should put LED bulbs in anyway). Circuit breakers are actually very accommodating of short term overload. If you really want, check the wire gauge connected to that breaker, if its 12 awg, you could safely swap the breaker to a 20 amp version.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I'm pretty sure you'll be fine, actually. The irrigation box takes almost nothing, and the garage door opener doesn't take much, and what little it doesn't take it for long(10 seconds or so, but you should put LED bulbs in anyway). Circuit breakers are actually very accommodating of short term overload. If you really want, check the wire gauge connected to that breaker, if its 12 awg, you could safely swap the breaker to a 20 amp version.

Ya... so I just checked our Genie Excellerator GDO's, each moving a single-wide garage door. The LED lights and standby condition takes 45w continuous. The max recorded by my meter during startup showed 5 amps, but its gotta be less than a second because it doesn't even show up on the screen. When actually watching it open at full speed, it was taking around 220 watts(aka less than two amps). You'll be fine.

I'd put up some pretty graphs, but I static-shocked the bejesus out of my usb-connectable meter a few weeks ago and I'm too lazy to get out the serial adapter for the old meter. See Watts Up .Net Internet Enabled Portable Plug in Power Meter... Its long been discontinued, but I'm gonna get another from Ebay and try not to shock it to death.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Besides, when you use the garage door opener you won't be charging, right?
You can also drop the charge current if it actually does trip the breaker.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm having the same dilemma. Tesla guy said it wasn't good to leave car connected every day at all... which is exactly what I was thinking of doing, since my wife drives from 0 to 20 miles a day on average. He said to always let the battery get discharged to about 30% (not lower than 20%), before charging it back to 90%. And that'd take like 2 days at 115V.

That is ridiculous! Add this to the list of dumb things Tesla sales people have said. This goes directly against what is written in the manuals and has been in there for years. It says there is no benefit to intentionally running it low and to go ahead and leave it plugged in all the time. (or as much as you want to)

Thank you. I just checked on the garage circuit, and I don't think it'd work for me. The circuit has a 15A breaker, and it covers the 3 garage outlets, but one of them is for the garage opener. The second is for the irrigation box, which probably draws minimal power. But if car is charging, and opener is activated, I'm almost sure it'd trip the breaker. Supposedly the car draws 12A max, but I'm sure the opener draws more than 3. That would be a no-go for me.

Besides, when you use the garage door opener you won't be charging, right?
You can also drop the charge current if it actually does trip the breaker.

Yeah, I think this would work out OK. For some of the low range other brands of electric cars like the Nissan LEAF, where they expect that people would just be using regular 120V wall outlets, they are defaulted to only pull 8A current for this kind of reason. So you don't have to leave the Tesla using 12A. If the circuit is shared with other things, you can leave it around 8-10A if you want to leave more..."overhead". (See what I did there--it's shared with the overhead garage door?) And yeah, breakers can normally allow a little overage for a couple minutes.

 

[JCtx]

Thank you guys. Well, just called the electrician who did my house, and he said I cannot put a 20A breaker, since the wire gauge is 14 (not 12). So that's not possible. BUT, he told me he'd charge me $80 to put a 220V 40A outlet 'back to back' with the box, so might as well do it that way. I told him I'd need a Bryant outlet, but he told me the ones he uses have bolts to secure wires, and that should be more than enough. May I ask why it has to be a Bryant? Remember seeing that here, but no details. Oh, and for the $80 he'd use 6 gauge wire, which is good for 60A, so it'd be good to put a Tesla charger in the future (or future house owner).

One final question: Does charging the battery at 32A with the mobile cable (and 40A breakers) would diminish the battery life over charging at 115V 12A??? I'd like to know that. Finally, electrician said he would not put 60A breakers if I'm going to only use 32A max, for safety reasons. Makes sense, right? So if putting a Tesla charger in the future, it'd be a matter of just changing the breakers from 40 to 60A, and installing the thing on the wall. But I honestly never foresee that, unless it was given free (with a lot of referrals). Ha ha.

 

[Black306]

...(a) May I ask why it has to be a Bryant? ...

(b) One final question: Does charging the battery at 32A with the mobile cable (and 40A breakers) would diminish the battery life over charging at 115V 12A??? I'd like to know that.

(c) Finally, electrician said he would not put 60A breakers if I'm going to only use 32A max, for safety reasons. Makes sense, right? So if putting a Tesla charger in the future, it'd be a matter of just changing the breakers from 40 to 60A, and installing the thing on the wall. But I honestly never foresee that, unless it was given free (with a lot of referrals). Ha ha.

(a) If you saw the quality difference between a Leviton and a Bryant or Hubbell, calling for a Bryant will make sense. I initially installed a Leviton, but quickly switched to a Bryant once I got one in my hands. Not sure about your area, but in my area it seems only Levitons are readily available. My guess would be most electricians here would probably install a Leviton unless otherwise requested. Difference is charging an EV can be high current for an extended period of time; much higher and longer than most appliances in a typical home.

(b) No. It’ll take much faster charging than capable at a typical home to damage/degrade the battery. Also, there would be the limit of the onboard charger which is safe for the battery.

(c) Not adding a 60A breaker makes sense if you’re adding a NEMA 14-50; don’t want to add a breaker rated higher than the outlet. However, it doesn’t make sense to me to add anything less than 50A. Why not go with a 50A breaker (to match the NEMA 14-50) and future proof it.

 

[Rocky_H]

Good remaining questions.

I told him I'd need a Bryant outlet, but he told me the ones he uses have bolts to secure wires, and that should be more than enough. May I ask why it has to be a Bryant? Remember seeing that here, but no details.

I think you're only remembering partial information from what people were showing. Look at the first couple of pages of this thread. Hubbel and Cooper are like the really excellent premium ones, but they are expensive. If your electrician is going to use one of those, then that is great. Someone discovered the Bryant one that is almost as good as those, but quite a bit cheaper, so that started to get recommended often.

The simple answer to your question is just: ANYTHING EXCEPT LEVITON!

Oh, and for the $80 he'd use 6 gauge wire, which is good for 60A, so it'd be good to put a Tesla charger in the future (or future house owner).

Yep, that's a good thing to future proof, using a little thicker wire than needed right now. If it's back-to-back with your panel, would that mean it's inside the wall? If he's using a short segment of 6 gauge Romex cable, then that is not rated for 60A. It would need to be separate wires in a little stub of conduit, which he may be planning to do. That would qualify for the 60A.

Finally, electrician said he would not put 60A breakers if I'm going to only use 32A max, for safety reasons. Makes sense, right?

(c) Not adding a 60A breaker makes sense if you’re adding a NEMA 14-50; don’t want to add a breaker rated higher than the outlet. However, it doesn’t make sense to me to add anything less than 50A. Why not go with a 50A breaker (to match the NEMA 14-50) and future proof it.

Yes, that would be a code violation. If you are using an outlet, you are not allowed to have a breaker rated higher than the rating of the outlet. But I also would second this final suggestion--just go ahead and get it done as a full 50A circuit with the 14-50 outlet. It's allowed, but kind of hokey to do a 14-50 as a 40A circuit, rather than going for the regular full standard.

Does charging the battery at 32A with the mobile cable (and 40A breakers) would diminish the battery life over charging at 115V 12A???

Think about this in perspective: you're fussing over the difference between like 7 kilowatts or about 1.5 kilowatts. This is for a battery in the car that can take over 200 kilowatts of power. That makes no difference to the car at all. All home charging is extremely slow and not stressful from the car's point of view.

So if putting a Tesla charger in the future, it'd be a matter of just changing the breakers from 40 to 60A, and installing the thing on the wall. But I honestly never foresee that, unless it was given free (with a lot of referrals). Ha ha.

Yup, that would be the procedure if you want to change it, as long as it is the 6 gauge wire in conduit that I mentioned earlier to support 60A. I'm planning this kind of change, but mine is 6 gauge Romex cable, so I'll have to stay with 50A when I make this switch.

 

[Vespa]

cannot put a 20A breaker, since the wire gauge is 14 (not 12).
$80 to put a 220V 40A outlet 'back to back' with the box
May I ask why it has to be a Bryant? he'd use 6 gauge wire, which is good for 60A
Does charging the battery at 32A with the mobile cable (and 40A breakers) would diminish the battery life over charging at 115V 12A?
Finally, electrician said he would not put 60A breakers if I'm going to only use 32A max, for safety reasons. Makes sense, right?

Correct, AWG14 is pretty flimsy and definitely limited to 15A.
AWG6 is correct for your new installation but it should have a 50A breaker if connected to a 50A outlet or 60A breaker if hard-wired to a wall charger. The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wiring and outlet, not the stuff you plug into it. So there's no safety benefit to undersizing the breaker and it might even be a code violation to put a 14-50 outlet on a 40A breaker because it could lead to nuisance tripping. It's absolutely a violation to put a 60A breaker on a 50A outlet.

It "has to be a Bryant outlet" because this is an enthusiast forum, and people here get enthusiastic about things like outlets. The reasoning is that while those cheap $10 outlets are well regulated and pass all compliance testing, neither the testing nor the historical use has typically involved hours of unattended usage at high current so it buys some peace of mind to use an industrial grade outlet with a known history of supplying 40A all day every day as they often do in industrial facilities. If you're convinced, just ask your electrician to use an industrial grade outlet (generally they will be marked with the term "industrial" and will have the larger 2.5" diameter and cover plate vs the household rated models which are 2.125" diameter).

 

[CyberGus]

First rule of NEMA club: Don't talk about Leviton

First rule of Leviton club: Upgrade your homeowner's insurance

 

[jeremymc7]

Thank you guys. Well, just called the electrician who did my house, and he said I cannot put a 20A breaker, since the wire gauge is 14 (not 12). So that's not possible. BUT, he told me he'd charge me $80 to put a 220V 40A outlet 'back to back' with the box, so might as well do it that way. I told him I'd need a Bryant outlet, but he told me the ones he uses have bolts to secure wires, and that should be more than enough. May I ask why it has to be a Bryant? Remember seeing that here, but no details. Oh, and for the $80 he'd use 6 gauge wire, which is good for 60A, so it'd be good to put a Tesla charger in the future (or future house owner).

I'm surprised he would only $80 what with the cost of the breaker, wire, and outlet; let alone his labor cost. Seems way too low. As you mentioned he's using a lower quality outlet. I would expect this to twice or three times, at least with quality materials.

But $80 would seem to just cover labor alone maybe.

 

[pjensen]

I'm surprised he would only $80 what with the cost of the breaker, wire, and outlet; let alone his labor cost. Seems way too low. As you mentioned he's using a lower quality outlet. I would expect this to twice or three times, at least with quality materials.

But $80 would seem to just cover labor alone maybe.

Before I got my car, I made a home depot shopping list for a nema 14-50 outlet.

Cost was $8.89 for (crappy) Leviton 50amp socket, $2.13 for a 4" box, $2.94 for the outlet wall plate. Total was $14. Probably the electrician has short pieces of romex wire left over from other jobs. He could wire that up in an hour. Probably is not getting a permit either.

So you are probably right. That quote is for a bottom quality socket and wire.

 

[Vespa]

Lol, you guys are so hard on Leviton sockets! Yeah, one guy didn't tighten the screws so great and it melted a little -- that could happen with any brand. Sure, the industrial sockets are better for the reasons I noted above but it's really not that big a deal, we're only pulling 32A from these things. Leviton has made millions of cheap dryer and air conditioner sockets that work fine at those power levels.

The electrician sounds like he knows what he's doing and specifically quoted 60A wire capacity so there's no reason to suspect he's using Romex. And there's no cost incentive for him to skimp (plus Romex is more expensive anyway) because even solid gold wiring would be about $0 for such a short run.

And yeah, he's certainly not including a permit for that $80 but the OP could probably do the permit himself for <$100 if desired. Personally, I'd be sure to get a permit one way or the other because a 14-50 outlet sticks out like a sore thumb and will be flagged as unpermitted when you sell.

 

[mrau]

The Hubbell 14-50 outlet is available from Zorro.com. Will need the special sized cover plate for it as well. If you add some AA batteries or other low cost item you can get your order over $50 to qualify for free shipping. Or just pay their $5 shipping fee.

Link
Bryant 50A 4W Single Receptacle 125/250VAC 14-50R BK 9450FR | Zoro.com

Cover plate link
Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems Single Receptacle Plate, 2 Gang, Silver SS701 | Zoro.com