Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide

[davewill]

I'm not sure I buy his excuse. More likely he got a deal on, or got stuck with, a lot of 45a breakers and this saves him money. Anyway, since the UMC is limited to 32a, the 45a breaker is indeed, "OK". I'd say accept this, for now, but be aware that if you decide to use the outlet for other purposes, or change to a hard-wired wall connector, that the breaker may need to be upgraded to 50a. You could ask your electrician to please come back and change it as soon as he gets the correct breaker in, but I predict he will make another excuse why he can't do that.

One other option is to go ahead and buy the correct breaker yourself, and have him to come and install it for you.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Electrician who owns a smaller family A/C and electrical company down the street came by installed a Legrand outlet. They’ve done like 200+ EV installs. Many people on our street. They claim nobody has 50a breakers at any of their suppliers. They have 50+ ordered and waiting on them. Meantime put a 45a breaker and said it will be fine. They said they have no choice, either that or 35a is all they have?!?! They have a bunch of customers with 45a. Anyway, if/when they get an actual 50a breaker will swap it.

Anyway box is right next to the breaker panel. Clean install $300. Charges fine. I turn it down to 26a anyway, don’t need 32mi an hour, 26mi/hr plenty fast.

$300 good neighbor install price…haha

Given you can go right to Home Depot and easily find 50 amp breakers (both 1 inch and 2 inch) in stock in Tampa, I doubt there is a supplier issue. As another put it, he probably just got a good deal on 45 amp breakers. You are probably okay for now with your gen 2 UMC given the 45A breaker will support 36A continuous (80% rating), and Gen 2 maxes out at 32A, but as others put it, if you decide to go with a faster charger or use the 14-50 for something else you might run into trouble.

You can just buy one yourself and have him swap out also if he never gets back about getting a supply.

 

[mrau]

If @techlogik could post a close-up photo of his 45 amp breaker, I'll bet we could find a 50 amp for him in no time.

 

[techlogik]

^ Agree with everything said above. Feel like these guys did the minimal. Plus they put a cheap breaker I assume since all the others have the light trip all by Eaton. Here’s a pic.
Bottom left is the new 45a.

Home Depot has them fir $22.

I have my charging set to 26a anyway. Still annoying.

Thx

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Well there's nothing "cheap" about a 45A breaker - the non-standard sizes can actually be more expensive.
And it's perfectly safe and legal to have any breaker between 40A and 50A on that outlet and perfectly safe and legal to charge at the 32A maximum, even with a 40A breaker.

That said, he did use the 45A for convenience and it's only a 5 minute job to swap it out so have them do it if you're concerned about needing more power someday. But meanwhile, charge at whatever rate you want and don't worry about any perceived inadequacy with the existing breaker.

I actually had a "Tesla authorized" electrician do the same thing. He installed a super-expensive combination 50A/20A "Triplex" breaker, leaving the unneeded 20A poles unconnected. But in my case it was because he didn't have a 60A breaker with him and didn't know that the wall charger is not OK running at 48A on a 50A circuit. I was tempted to fix it myself and sell the fancy breaker on eBay for a profit!

And FYI, NEC requires these outlets to be on a GFCI breaker so you might want to spend the extra $80 to upgrade so that you don't die or have hassles when you sell the house.

 

[techlogik]

^Problem is finding an Eaton 50a GFCI breaker for less than $140 and in stock anywhere. CH panel. Maybe the guy is right because few anywhere have these and people are price gouging everywhere.

 

[davewill]

...

And FYI, NEC requires these outlets to be on a GFCI breaker so you might want to spend the extra $80 to upgrade so that you don't die or have hassles when you sell the house.

That may be required in your jurisdiction, but it's definitely not a requirement everywhere. For regular 120v outlets in garages it's pretty much universal, but for 240v, not so much.

 

[Rocky_H]

That may be required in your jurisdiction, but it's definitely not a requirement everywhere.

Well yes, it looks like there are still 9 states that have not adopted the 2017 or 2020 versions of NEC which require it. You can see which ones here.

Learn where the National Electrical Code® (NEC®) is enforced. | NFPA

Discover which edition of the NFPA 70, National Electrical Code (NEC) is enforced in your state.

www.nfpa.org

 

[techlogik]

^For my particular situation I'm in FL. So, they have adopted, my entire panel has either GFCI breakers or outlets. That is pretty much code where I live.

The problem, nobody has Eaton CH 50a GFCI 2 pole breakers in the US in stock. If you can find one, they are asking $300-400 from my research. So, your choice is not follow the code, which my electrician did, because they have 50+ on order and just waiting for when they show up to put them in place of all the customers they've had to install 40-50a regular breakers in the panel. So...code sounds great, but when you can't find one anywhere, you are left with one thing, a regular breaker to do the job.

 

[Rocky_H]

So...code sounds great, but when you can't find one anywhere, you are left with one thing

Using a freaking hard wired wall connector, which DOESN'T require a GFCI breaker!!

I am really hating seeing this attitude in several threads of insisting that they have no choice but to violate code. Nonsense. If doing a code compliant outlet is getting too expensive because of the shortage of GFCI breakers, then it's at cost parity to do a proper wall connector.

 

[canadaben]

Had this installed today

 

[Jeremy3292]

^Problem is finding an Eaton 50a GFCI breaker for less than $140 and in stock anywhere. CH panel. Maybe the guy is right because few anywhere have these and people are price gouging everywhere.

thread is a little old I know but I also have an Eaton CH panel and I found a 60 amp breaker at my local Lowes for my HPWC install - $24. It looks like they have them online too and in 50 amp:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-CH-50-Amp-2-Pole-Standard-Trip-Circuit-Breaker/4747763

 

[Sophias_dad]

thread is a little old I know but I also have an Eaton CH panel and I found a 60 amp breaker at my local Lowes for my HPWC install - $24. It looks like they have them online too and in 50 amp:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-Type-CH-50-Amp-2-Pole-Standard-Trip-Circuit-Breaker/4747763

Yes, but that's not a GFCI breaker, which is required for installing an outlet(as opposed to an HPWC)

 

[Jeremy3292]

Yes, but that's not a GFCI breaker, which is required for installing an outlet(as opposed to an HPWC)

ahh yes the devil is in the details

 

[bedoig]

Just chiming in. I happened to notice the charging pattern below when randomly reviewing some TeslaFi data.

I've had a 14-50 outlet installed for a couple years done by a Tesla recommended local electrician. I'd read some of this thread in the past but never gave it all that much thought. After seeing the charge data I checked the error logs in my car and it was full of "charge level reduced due to temperature at the outlet" or something along those lines. I wish something like that would actually pop up as a message that needs to be acknowledged in the car rather than silently logging in the background, but I'm very glad the more recent UMC's include the temperature sensors in the plug. I opened up my outlet (a Leviton) and one of the terminals required 2+ full turns to tighten. Yikes. Need to install something better soon and will most likely do it myself this time.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Just chiming in. I happened to notice the charging pattern below when randomly reviewing some TeslaFi data.

View attachment 698585


I've had a 14-50 outlet installed for a couple years done by a Tesla recommended local electrician. I'd read some of this thread in the past but never gave it all that much thought. After seeing the charge data I checked the error logs in my car and it was full of "charge level reduced due to temperature at the outlet" or something along those lines. I wish something like that would actually pop up as a message that needs to be acknowledged in the car rather than silently logging in the background, but I'm very glad the more recent UMC's include the temperature sensors in the plug. I opened up my outlet (a Leviton) and one of the terminals required 2+ full turns to tighten. Yikes. Need to install something better soon and will most likely do it myself this time.

Thanks for the notes on your situation; good info there. As I have noted previously at length, it's not like the 14-50 outlet is a bad idea especially if you already have one. My contention has always been it's easier, more reliable, faster, frees up your mobile connector, and nicer looking just to install a HPWC and the cost really isn't that drastically different especially with the 30% tax credit. My neighbor is a commercial electrician and he advised Eaton or Hubbell for EV outlets only.

 

[Larry in TN]

I will have a 14-50 receptacle installed before my car is delivered. Can anyone give me some guidance on how high the receptacle should be placed?

I'll have the receptacle on top, mobile connector below, and the cable organizer, to hold the coiled charging cord, on the bottom. How far above the cable organizer should be receptacle be for a neat installation?

Thanks.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I will have a 14-50 receptacle installed before my car is delivered. Can anyone give me some guidance on how high the receptacle should be placed?

I'll have the receptacle on top, mobile connector below, and the cable organizer, to hold the coiled charging cord, on the bottom. How far above the cable organizer should be receptacle be for a neat installation?

Thanks.

You generally want it around 48" (4 ft) from the floor as this is roughly the height of your cars charge port from the ground. No higher than 5 feet and no lower than 2 feet also.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

How far above the cable organizer should be receptacle be for a neat installation?

Ergonomically it doesn’t matter much. Aesthetically it looks nice to have the outlet at light-switch level which is also ideal if the outlet is converted to a wall charger later.
This makes for a pretty tidy setup with the UMC hanging below the outlet, cord hook above the outlet, and cord wrapped around them both.

 

[Larry in TN]

Ergonomically it doesn’t matter much. Aesthetically it looks nice to have the outlet at light-switch level which is also ideal if the outlet is converted to a wall charger later.
This makes for a pretty tidy setup with the UMC hanging below the outlet, cord hook above the outlet, and cord wrapped around them both.

Oh, thanks! I wasn't thinking of the cord hook being above the receptacle. That will look better!