Damn, 6 weeks. I'll make sure to update once I eventually get it.
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Master Thread: Definitive 14-50 NEMA Outlet Guide
- Thread starter gilscales
- Start date
Are you guys waiting on the 14-50 recepticles because it’s the only way to power your EVSE ?
I went that route out on my pole for guests with EV or RV, in my shop I already had 6-50 for welding and charging.
I’d say short of needing RV/dual use, a 6-50 is better suited for charging simply by needing 1 less conductor and being more readily available than 6 weeks out!
I went that route out on my pole for guests with EV or RV, in my shop I already had 6-50 for welding and charging.
I’d say short of needing RV/dual use, a 6-50 is better suited for charging simply by needing 1 less conductor and being more readily available than 6 weeks out!
I settled on the 14-50 since my car came with that adapter. I already have the 6/3 wires run so not much point in changing now.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If you have 6-50 already or you have a long run (where it's significant to save 1 conductor), it makes sense, but I think a lot of people they go with 14-50 because that seems to be what the rest of the industry has standardized on. It is rare that third party EVSEs offer any option other than 14-50 or your standard 5-15. 14-50 is just more future proof in case you use a different EVSE in the future.
My charger stopped again due to the heat. 
. The plug and outlet were extremely warm to the touch. I’m charging now at 24a instead of the max 32a that the SR+ can do.
This sucks since we are picking up a new LR this week and I was looking forward to seeing it charge at 40a.
I’m glad I have the Bryant outlet. I can only imagine what would happen with the Legrand it replaced. Doesn’t help that it’s still in the mid 90s outside at close to 10 at night. Car interior says 102.
. The plug and outlet were extremely warm to the touch. I’m charging now at 24a instead of the max 32a that the SR+ can do. This sucks since we are picking up a new LR this week and I was looking forward to seeing it charge at 40a.
I’m glad I have the Bryant outlet. I can only imagine what would happen with the Legrand it replaced. Doesn’t help that it’s still in the mid 90s outside at close to 10 at night. Car interior says 102.
I ended up reinstalling the Legrand outlet as I started troubleshooting the lost ground/heat issue with the Bryant, and no matter what I tried it would either work well when I had the outlet hanging outside the box and then fail after I got everything buttoned together, or it would just fail outright. I tried installing the wiring the original way (turning the screws clockwise to tighten the wires into there spaces) and even just retightening the connections just to be sure. Once I had the Legrand connected again the EV charger light went to blue like I expect it to. I have never had an issue (ground or heat related) with the Legrand so far.
I'm suspecting I got a bad Bryant outlet in that the batch it came in was bad as this was the second one I got the same day with the same problem. The Legrand does say 75 degrees Celsius on the housing, so I'm hoping that means it will be heat tolerant. I will just have to keep an eye on the plug temperature and schedule charging to be after 9pm when the outside temperature starts to drop, and even lower the amperage to 24 if need-be like I did last night.
I'm suspecting I got a bad Bryant outlet in that the batch it came in was bad as this was the second one I got the same day with the same problem. The Legrand does say 75 degrees Celsius on the housing, so I'm hoping that means it will be heat tolerant. I will just have to keep an eye on the plug temperature and schedule charging to be after 9pm when the outside temperature starts to drop, and even lower the amperage to 24 if need-be like I did last night.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
There's basically 3 possible failure points, which if you have a multimeter you can test for continuity/resistance with receptacle disconnected:
1) wire to lug terminals. Possible failures is not connecting wire as per instructions (clamped between copper flat and V shaped part) and not torqueing to specifications. Hubbell version calls for 75 lb-in of torque (although keep in mind Bryant version uses a different size allen wrench size).
https://hubbellcdn.com/installationmanuals/WIRING_PD1186_INSTALLINST.pdf
Most people just torque it as tight as they can with allen wrench (using side that gives most leverage), tug on wires to test if it will loosen, then torque it tight again. However some use an actual torque wrench.
Bryant is only compatible with pure copper wiring (not copper clad aluminum or aluminum).
One way to test is if you still have a pigtail wire, you can test on the other end of the wire and any exposed surface of lug (not sure if terminal screws are conductive, but if they are, they can be used too).
2) lug terminals to receptacle pins (can test easily with multimeter). This can be tested first and then the wire to lug terminal test would be easier.
3) 14-50 connector to receptacle connection. This can be tested easily with the 14-50 adapter from the Tesla mobile connector. Just disconnect it from mobile connector and plug it in and you can test the corresponding pins. Some people don't plug in all the way when they first use a 14-50 (given connection is very tight), but that seems unlikely in your case if you have experience using it.
There is a faint possibility of the ground wire in your outlet box not being connected properly at panel and somehow the Legrand is grounding itself separately, which is unlikely but bears mentioning. Improper neutral and ground bounding at the main panel also can cause similar errors (which again, if Legrand makes a difference, could also be Legrand doing some sort of bonding between the two).
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I've ensured that the wires were very tight, and I suspect it's the ground wire being the culprit as the only way I could get this outlet to work was to connect the ground wire "backwards" in the terminal, with using the v-shaped part as a way to pinch it against the terminal instead of the wire being inside the v-shape part. Everything would test out okay on the multimeter when testing though. You mentioned something that makes me think it could be the wiring itself, and that's the electrician who ran the wiring for me and installed the outlet initially could have used copper clad aluminum instead of pure copper, as I have noticed that some of the ground wire that has worn away from me troubleshooting this does have some silver look to it. Same for the strands of wiring that make up the 2 hot and one neutral. I don't think the Legrand could be grounding itself, as the enclosure it's installed in is the blue plastic old work box. That's something else I'm not happy about.
Unfortunately electricians in my area seem to be unreliable as it took me calling a second electrician I found on Thumbtack who supposedly had good reviews to come out and do this job. I specifically told him I wanted a Hubbell outlet and he installed a Legrand after saying after the fact that if I wanted a Hubbell outlet it would be an additional $200 which I know is more than the cost of the outlet itself.
I'm at the point of possibly redoing this wire run with pure copper myself but I just don't want to electrocute myself trying to do this. For now due to the hot temperatures, even at 9pm, I'm limiting the current to 24a just to ensure I keep the heat down. I did notice even with doing that and with my garage still showing nearly 100 degrees, the plug wiring for the EV charger is still quite warm.
The wire you suspect is aluminum sounds like tinned copper, good stuff if it is.
But does the Bryant outlet work well with tinned copper, or am I stuck using a residential grade outlet?
Yes. If that’s what you have, the tinning prevents corrosion, you won’t have that problem. Bryant is an excellent 14-50R, I have one installed and one waiting to install, and multiple Bryant 6-50R’s, never a problem with any.
Main problem with the Bryant outlet if replacing an existing Leviton outlet is that it is deeper and may not fit in some existing boxes that had enough space for a Leviton outlet (see comparison photos at the beginning of the thread).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I highly doubt it is tinned copper. Tinned copper isn't typically used in large conductors unless it is for a marine environment. It's an extra cost I don't see electricians for residential use going for, unlike CCA which is cheaper. Also tinned copper would look silver outside with copper inside, while I believe he is saying it is the opposite in his case.
On this subject, the Hubbell install guide I linked says explicitly:
"Strip conductors using strip gage on receptacle. DO NOT TIN CONDUCTORS."
I can check on weekend the Bryant install guide (or you can check yourself), but it likely says the same.
I don't know however how big a difference it would make, as seemingly tinned conductors should conduct as good if not better (although I suppose it changes the interfacing material). Most 10 AWG ground wires that come with 6/3 cable are unstranded solid copper though.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Just throwing out all the possibilities I could think of. You may want to test continuity of the different parts of the lug with the actual pin and see if the ground one is inconsistent with other pins.
1: flat copper surface nearest screw
2: thick v shaped copper piece that moves as you turn the screw
3: V shaped copper surface that is fixed
4: large copper surface on other side of lug terminal
This picture doesn't show it directly, but there is also a 5th copper surface, which is at the back when you look straight in at the lug terminal hole.
To make it more clear, the wire should be clamped between 1 & 2 when you tighten the hex screw.
Jason Bourne
Member
Hi all,
For anyone else on the hunt for a Hubbell or Bryant 9450r NEMA 14-50 receptacle, the best price I could find on the item with an IN STOCK listing was at kellyhayes.com for $91 plus shipping. Grainger and other places say 6 weeks.
www.kellyhayes.com
As of this writing, they say they have 450 in stock.
For anyone else on the hunt for a Hubbell or Bryant 9450r NEMA 14-50 receptacle, the best price I could find on the item with an IN STOCK listing was at kellyhayes.com for $91 plus shipping. Grainger and other places say 6 weeks.
HBL9450A 125/250 V, 50 A, 14-50R, 3-Pole, 4-Wire, Black, Reinforced Thermoplastic Polyester, Grounding, Single, Straight Blade Power Receptacle
125/250 V, 50 A, 14-50R, 3-Pole, 4-Wire, Black, Reinforced Thermoplastic Polyester, Grounding, Single, Straight Blade Power Receptacle
www.kellyhayes.com
As of this writing, they say they have 450 in stock.
Attachments
Jason Bourne
Member
Update: my order has shipped and I received UPS tracking number. So it seems they actually do have them in stock.Hi all,
For anyone else on the hunt for a Hubbell or Bryant 9450r NEMA 14-50 receptacle, the best price I could find on the item with an IN STOCK listing was at kellyhayes.com for $91 plus shipping. Grainger and other places say 6 weeks.
HBL9450A 125/250 V, 50 A, 14-50R, 3-Pole, 4-Wire, Black, Reinforced Thermoplastic Polyester, Grounding, Single, Straight Blade Power Receptacle
125/250 V, 50 A, 14-50R, 3-Pole, 4-Wire, Black, Reinforced Thermoplastic Polyester, Grounding, Single, Straight Blade Power Receptacle
As of this writing, they say they have 450 in stock.
Outside temp is in the mid 80s with it being in the mid 90s in my garage so I thought I’d test charging our M3LR at the max 40a I can do. I started monitoring the temp of the outlet, plug, and cord going into the Grizzl-E charger and after about 30 minutes the highest temp I saw was on the side of the plug at 182 degrees F. The outlet was around 150 and cord was around 135. Nonetheless I dropped the amperage to 24 as I was not comfortable with those temps. The outlet is a Legrange rated at 75C. I really hate not being able to take advantage of the full 40a my charger can do. I submitted a ticket to Grizzl-E two days ago and have yet to hear anything.
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