ucmndd
Well-Known Member
“Once the installation is complete, you will be eligible to subscribe”.
So in your estimation, Tesla is not within their rights to determine eligibility criteria for their newly announced subscription service?
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MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021
- Thread starter Adirondack_D
- Start date
So in your estimation, Tesla is not within their rights to determine eligibility criteria for their newly announced subscription service?
But they ARE different. In one case you're buying a capability full up forever, in the other you're leasing a service on a temporary month to month basis. If you buy ownership of the capability, they'll include the hardware update free as part of the purchase price. If you're leasing the service, you need to be capable of using the service you're leasing.
When you bought your car they told you you could BUY (not lease) FSD, and if you did, they'd do any necessary hardware updates. That offer still stands. You have zero standing with respect to any subsequent product they offer.
Suppose at the time you bought your car there was no lease option (for all I know, maybe there wasn't.) If they came out with a lease option the next year would you say your'e entitled to convert your purchase into a lease? The answer is 'no', you'd have no standing under any subsequent lease offering. If they dropped the price of the car the year after you bought it would you claim you're entitled to a refund? The answer is 'no' because you'd have no standing under any subsequent offer.
In 2021, two products exist named "Full Self Driving Capability." One requires a hardware upgrade, even though in 2018 "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver."
Tesla does not get to re-define in 2021 what they said in 2018. Tesla named it full self driving capability in 2018, and is advertising two ways to purchase Full Self Driving Capability in 2021. You don't get to say one of them is what you meant in 2018, but name them exactly the same and describe them exactly the same in 2021, and not charge a premium to only cars with newer hardware.
Anyway, we've both made our points. We'll see in a few months who is right.
Why is everyone ignoring what they said in 2018? "All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver.""
That isn't true, right? The fact an upgrade exists, and is needed for FSD CAPABILITY, makes it untrue. It was always untrue even if you didn't buy FSD.
Tesla's false statement now costs me $1500. If there statement was true, that my car had the capability, this $1500 would not exist. They did not say it has the capability to buy FSD. They said it flat out has the capability.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I would think the fact that you’re suing a multinational corporation over a complex contract dispute would be a pretty slam-dunk case for allowing the defendant to be a legal representative of the company you‘re suing.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Wrong again.
ONE exists called Buy full self driving capability. This is a straight purchase. It is available to anyone with a Tesla manufactured since roughly November 2016.
ONE exists called "full self driving capability subscription"
This is a different, month-to-month, subscription service with it's own eligibility requirements.
Having a car with HW3 is one of those requirements- and subscription to this service is not available to anyone else.
Spoiler- it's not you.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Because the subscription didn't exist then.
So you literally can not apply what they said in 2018 to a different thing that did not exist in 2018
The FSD capability you were told your car could do without any HW charges is still available for you to buy today
NOTHING about that changed, other than it's gone up in price- which they ALSO told you could happen at the time.
This NEW product is not even AVAILABLE to HW2.x cars.
Nope. Again you can still outright buy it just like the day you bought the car and it costs you $0.00 in hardware.
The only thing that costs $1500 is if you want to make an older car eligible for a NEW SERVICE THAT DID NOT EXIST before today.
That's the literal reason they don't allow lawyers- it makes suing any big company too expensive. When the amounts are low enough, the cases need to be treated more simply.
Hell, Google lost in small claims case for $761 over a contract dispute. They weren't allowed a lawyer.
BM3B
“beaver”
tren01t
Member
I was checking my app and saw the subscription for FSD at $199.00 month. Looks like it finally dropped.
Comments?
Comments?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
There's already tons of them in multiple other threads about it
The investor roundtable for example, and this "master" one-
teslamotorsclub.com
The investor roundtable for example, and this "master" one-
MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021
Look at these two things which are CLEARLY DIFFERENT as advertised by Tesla. “Once the installation is complete, you will be eligible to subscribe”. So in your estimation, Tesla is not within their rights to determine eligibility criteria for their newly announced subscription service?
teslamotorsclub.com
Baytomax
Professional EDD Page Refresher
I can see this viable for one long road trip but a repeat monthly subscription? I would not pay $2400/yr for this.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
$199 per month is about what I expected. People expecting something like $99 is way overoptimistic, as that makes the outright purchase not make sense at all.
BM3B
“beaver”
tren01t
Member
Yeah those mofos stole my thunder.There's already tons of them in multiple other threads about it
The investor roundtable for example, and this "master" one-
MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021
Look at these two things which are CLEARLY DIFFERENT as advertised by Tesla. “Once the installation is complete, you will be eligible to subscribe”. So in your estimation, Tesla is not within their rights to determine eligibility criteria for their newly announced subscription service?
Peace out lol
It is an interesting thought, because those cars should still be able to use basic autopilot on highways (which Tesla love to say is already safer than a human) and if you had purchased FSD at the time then you would get the hardware to actually use the additional features you had purchased. There was never a way to have the possibility of additional features but not the hardware to use it…
Fast-forward to now and you have a different usage ability by just clicking buy on the app and using it for a month or something.
A corporation can have a real person represent it in the court of law. And that person can be an attorney. You on the other hand can not have an attorney represent you. The “no attorney representation in small claims court” really applies to individuals suing or being sued. Not corporations or stores.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
In Washington the guideline is below:
"Unless a judge grants permission, Attorneys and paralegals are excluded from appearing or participating with the plaintiff or defendant in a small claims suit."
Small Claims Court | Washington State
The King County Bar's small claims guideline does mention this applies to corporations also (may in fact be there specifically to target corporations), although corporations will tend to try to move the trial to regular court (where there are no such restrictions). See page 3 (or PDF page 8):
http://www.kcba.org/kcba/pbs/pdf/NLClinks/SmallClaimsPacketandForms.pdf
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Ok I see what you are saying now.
Your HW2.5 car was sold as having all the hardware needed for FSD. It doesn't. You need HW3.
If you buy the software they will do what they said and add the necessary HW3 that the software now needs. No charge to you.
However I also see what the other people are saying. You now have a choice of two options and the subscription choice screws you out of $1500. But you do have the choice and no one's forcing you to take the subscription.
Add to the list of Tesla's "screw-you" grievances. They could just as easily put in the hardware as good customer service, after all it was them who changed the software. They could also easily allow FSD purchases to be transferable too.
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