I welcome FSD but I feel Tesla needs to set proper expectations when it comes to this software. The casual or new Tesla buyer tends to get caught up in the hype and winds up with buyers remorse when it comes to FSD. I know many folks that have spent a lot of money on the promises of FSD and there has been little to no return on the investment and you can't even transfer the software to a new Tesla. They could start by changing the name, maybe refer to the autonomy level supported. The FSD subscription solves most of this issue though since folks can now check it out and then cancel as needed until they see value. This puts a lot more pressure back on Tesla developers to deliver working features. All good.
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MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021
- Thread starter Adirondack_D
- Start date
rxlawdude
Active Member
My point is that repeatedly posting previously posted videos is, um, redundant. If your goal is to put pressure on Tesla developers, I'm not sure your methodology is going to accomplish that.
It's a public forum, just skip on by them if they bother you. Maybe someone else with see them for the first time and it will help them make a more informed decision regarding FSD and what to expect so far. The pressure on developers comes from sales. If no one buys or subscribes they either deliver as promised or cancel the project.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Given the videos are of software that is not actually what they'd be getting as a new buyer-and is instead of an unfinished future feature set in the middle of debugging--- how would that inform their decision?
You can get a feel for what you are signing up for by watching the videos. I think the key point of consideration is whether you can ever trust the system even if they call it feature complete at some point. Lane keeping with dynamic cruise control on the highway is one thing but navigating on busy city streets is something completely different. You can see in all the videos that no one is relaxed, they are all hyper alert just waiting to correct for something unexpected. I hope at some point I am convinced otherwise but I do not see being able to sit back, relax and trust that the system will do the right thing. IMO, if FSD requires any additional effort, stress, thought process vs. just driving yourself then it is a failure. That said, others may have a different view of what they consider value or just like supporting the AI effort.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You really can't- since literally nothing in those videos are in the actual retail product today, and nobody can "sign up" for what they see there.
And what IS in that videos is a deeply unfinished FUTURE feature.
It'd be like watching a toddler stumble around a room barely able to walk and continually falling over and saying it "gives you a feel" for how they'll walk as an adult.
FloridaJohn
Member
I would modify your analogy to watching a toddler stumble and saying "it gives you a feel" for how often they'll win a marathon.
That is the the point and that is what you see in the videos. It is unfinished and will continue to be for many years to come. Remember, we are talking about dropping $10k for "FSD". Buyer beware is the point. If you want to try it out, subscribe for a month and save $9,800.
Tesla refutes Elon Musk's timeline on 'full self-driving' | TechCrunch
What Tesla CEO Elon Musk says publicly about the company's progress on a fully autonomous driving system doesn't match up with "engineering reality,"
techcrunch.com
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
That's exactly the opposite of what you told us the point was yesterday though.
Glad you're finally on board with a more accurate evaluation of the videos
They're not actually useful for "giving you a feel" of what buying FSD gets you today at all.
Ah, little bit of backsliding here.
Nobody- Tesla included- actually knows how long it'll be unfinished for.
When nobody has ever made something work you can't really know how long it'll take to make it work.
You can make up predictions- and sometimes you'll be early, sometimes you'll be late- but they're all just guesses since NOBODY knows when it's done until it's done.
Yes- but the stuff in the video is not what you get for your 10k
So again bringing the videos up is a non-sequitor.
Tesla is very clear about what you get buying it for your 10k TODAY during the purchase.
The idea nobody has any idea WTF they're buying when Tesla spells it out for you DURING PURCHASE continues to be a nonsense strawman argument.
Dang, it is impressive how far you will go to defend Tesla. It is like I am calling your baby ugly or something. I am a fan as well and enjoy my car but I am not drinking the FSD Kool-Aid like you. I find your viewpoint is jaded because if anyone brings up a competitor or another point of view you are quick to find a way to defend Tesla rather than being open-minded. It doesn't matter if we are talking about brakes, tires, 0-60 times or FSD software.That's exactly the opposite of what you told us the point was yesterday though.
Glad you're finally on board with a more accurate evaluation of the videos
They're not actually useful for "giving you a feel" of what buying FSD gets you today at all.
Ah, little bit of backsliding here.
Nobody- Tesla included- actually knows how long it'll be unfinished for.
When nobody has ever made something work you can't really know how long it'll take to make it work.
You can make up predictions- and sometimes you'll be early, sometimes you'll be late- but they're all just guesses since NOBODY knows when it's done until it's done.
Yes- but the stuff in the video is not what you get for your 10k
So again bringing the videos up is a non-sequitor.
Tesla is very clear about what you get buying it for your 10k TODAY during the purchase.
The idea nobody has any idea WTF they're buying when Tesla spells it out for you DURING PURCHASE continues to be a nonsense strawman argument.
My point all along is that FSD is not FSD, buyer beware and here are some videos of folks beta testing, which is a more accurate depiction of FSD reality than the marketing hype. If this helps the casual buyer avoid making a costly mistake then great. My advice to folks that do not know what they are getting into would be to subscribe to FSD for a month and make their own decision if the feature set is worth it. If not, cancel and resubscribe when Tesla has made some meaningful progress. If you can't migrate the FSD software from VIN to VIN then the FSD subscription is a much better consumption model when you are are dealing with a product with an agile software development lifecycle.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I'm not even defending Tesla here.
I'm defending basic english.
You made claims that are demonstrably contradicted by facts.
"Video of an unfinished version of the thing that's not actually the product being sold today is a useful way to understand the product being sold today"
That's your argument- and it's nonsense.
No, but you ARE claiming its sonogram will tell us how likely they are to be a model in 18 years.
Which is equally nonsensical.
This, too, is unsupported by actual facts.
There's nothing special at all about the brakes and tires on Teslas for example- nor can you cite any time I ever "defended" Tesla versus a competitor on those topics.
Except, it is.
FSD (FSDC really) is a name of a specific package of features sold by Tesla
They list those features and explain them to you during the sales process.
Your denial of those facts notwithstanding.
You seem unable to understand a product name is not always literally a complete description of the product
You may ALSO be surprised to learn:
Diaper Genies do not grant wishes.
Happy Meals do not medically improve your mood.
Southwest airlines sometimes flies North.
Radio Flyers neither receive radio, nor fly.
And many other such examples.
Or buyer just read the description of the product shown during purchase
That'd work too.
This is again, outright false and dishonest on your part.
That's not in any way an accurate description of what they are buying because what is in the video is not for sale today
And never will be.
Some FUTURE, significantly better, version may be delivered to customers some time in the future but looking at the videos now is not informative or dispositive toward understanding what is for sale right now
Again, no more than looking at video of a toddler learning to walk is a "more accurate depiction" of how they'll do at track and field as an adult.
yurmix
Member
I subscribed one-month to experience FSD. Definitely not worth it now. The only improvement is navigation. I don’t miss intersections off ramp that way. But auto lane change is kind of scary for my wife so it isn’t appropriate for our road trip.
200 / 50 = 4. So yeah if I used every 4th month it would be on par. But it's unlikely I would use it that rarely. But still a hefty price for lane change and summon.
cylonmode
Member
Thats honestly how I figured it would be for me, I just can't justify the gimmick over reality.
In the US we typically don’t see .25 interest rate. But also… how long is your car loan if you only pay $50 with interest a month for FSD when rolled into your loan? Current price is $10k.
But either way it’s just a different way to buy a product. Similar to getting a cell phone. Some pay outright full price. Some pay monthly. Some take a loan and pay a third party, ie credit card.
$200 per month vs $10,000 outright currently. So it would take 4 years and 2 months of subscription before you hit $10,000.
But it’s more complicated than that because I could pay monthly and invest the money in something else for a decent return in which case that subscription prices seems like the better choice. Or maybe I trade the car in after year 2 in which case I’ve only paid 4,800.
But it’s more complicated than that because I could pay monthly and invest the money in something else for a decent return in which case that subscription prices seems like the better choice. Or maybe I trade the car in after year 2 in which case I’ve only paid 4,800.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I mean, presumably you just took a cheap loan for the car PLUS FSD.
Paying cash makes no sense at all when you can get 2% car loans.
In which case you had more to invest, and especially after the 4 years remain ahead of paying the subscription with your own money instead of someone elses.
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