Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

[louiebeene]

Hi all,
What is a reasonable metric to look at to see if my new 2022 model 3 RWD LFP battery is within specs?
I have been checking the odometer miles vs the projected mileage for each trip and I found the range is too wide (odometer mileage/project mileage ratio of 0.5 - 0.8 )
I understand that your driving habits and weather do play a role in the efficiency.
In southern California, what should I be expecting, conservatively?

Should I be looking at only the avg kWh/mile number ?
What is the expected efficiency, 240-250 Wh/mi ?
My best avg so far is 250 Wh/mi ? Please post your numbers if possible.
Assuming 250 Wh/mi, then at full charge for a 60 kWh, the theorectical range is only 240 miles, is this correct way to look at it?

HELP please

 

[louiebeene]

Just picked up my 2021 model 3 SR+. It’s displaying a range of 231 miles, not 263. Is that normal? Will the range increase over time?

How's your 3 doing so far. I just got mine and I am wondering about the range over time too. Just wondering if you got the model 3 SR+ or model 3 RWD. I order in aug 2021 for SR+, however, when I took delivery in Dec, it is a 3 RWD. Let know.

 

[theothertom]

Should I be looking at only the avg kWh/mile number ?

Yes

What is the expected efficiency, 240-250 Wh/mi ?
My best avg so far is 250 Wh/mi ? Please post your numbers if possible.

Depends on a lot of factors...temp, speed, tire pressure, sentry use, etc. My lifetime is 260. I get 270-280 at freeway speeds in warm weather.

Assuming 250 Wh/mi, then at full charge for a 60 kWh, the theorectical range is only 240 miles, is this correct way to look at it?

Yes, but your battery will degrade over time. Not nearly as fast as a NCA battery, but you will get some degradation, so that the initial 60kWh will drop to something less over time. Check out the Limiting Factor's YouTube video on LFP batteries for a graph (linked in post 339)

 

[TexaCali]

speaking of LFP efficiency and temp....today we got some nice weather and I saw a "noticeable" improvement in my Wh/mi LoL

(hint: I was driving down a mountain)

 

[Baluchi]

10,000 mile update for my 2021 SR+ LFP. The car is now 5 months old. The Tessie app shows a battery capacity of 53.8 kWh (down 1.5% from my original 23 Oct 2021 post of 54.6 kWh), and a max range of 249 miles (down 1.6% from my original post of 253 miles).

It was 9 deg F (-13C) on my drive to work yesterday, so I'm still not sure if any of my degradation is just weather-based. Still thinking it's possible I'll get at least some of my range back when when temps rise again next spring. But even if I don't, under 2% seems reasonable for 10,000 miles and I'm happy with that.

According to the car's screen, I'm now averaging 215 Wh/mi over the life of the car (up from 208 during the 5,000 mile update when I hadn't driven in much cold weather yet). Assuming I could tap into the listed 53.8 kWh battery at my lifetime average 215 Wh/mi efficiency, that gives me a range of 250.2 miles.

My charging is almost entirely Level 2 from a Grizzl-E on a 40 amp circuit in my garage, delivering 32 amps to the car. I charge most nights, but I mix it up to try and let the battery sleep at various states-of-charge. I especially try not to charge to 100% if I don't expect to drive the car the following day. So some nights I'll charge to 70%, some to 80%, some to 90%, and at least a couple times per week I go to 100%. I've used Superchargers several times now, but DC fast charging is still a small percentage of my charging.

Tessie says I've charged 127 times in the 5 months I've owned the car. The LFP battery is supposedly good for 5,000 cycles before it degrades to 80%, I've used 2.5% of those cycles since I bought the car on 23 Sep 2021. At this rate, the car should last a total of 16 years before the battery falls to 80% capacity (202 mile range). (This is based on the total number of charges, but I really need to update these numbers with the "full charge cycles" shown in ScanMyTesla--I will but I don't have it in front of me right now).

Tessie says I've spent $242.15 on electricity for the life of the car, while the same driving in my old Ford Focus would've cost $921.45 in gasoline. So my fuel costs have been 26% compared to keeping my old car.

I'll try to post another update at 15,000 miles, which should happen in the spring, when hopefully some of these numbers will be even better.

 

[Baluchi]

According to ScanMyTesla, I've done 55.3 charge cycles. So using that number, I've used 1.1% of my 5000 cycles. At that rate, there's 37 years of charging available before I hit 20% degradation. That can't be right, so I'm not sure how I should be counting charge cycles. Tessie just counts every time I plug in, but ScanMyTesla does some math to determine full charge cycles. The difference between the figures is huge.

 

[theothertom]

It was 9 deg F (-13C) on my drive to work yesterday

Thanks for the report.
I assume you were plugged in before you left for work?
Do you recall what your wH/mile was on the drive at 9F?

 

[AAKEE]

According to ScanMyTesla, I've done 55.3 charge cycles. So using that number, I've used 1.1% of my 5000 cycles. At that rate, there's 37 years of charging available before I hit 20% degradation. That can't be right, so I'm not sure how I should be counting charge cycles. Tessie just counts every time I plug in, but ScanMyTesla does some math to determine full charge cycles. The difference between the figures is huge.

SMT use the total charge amount splitted in kWh by the nominal full pack in kWh.

Batteries suffer from two types of degradation:
-Cyclic aging
-Calendar aging.

Cyclic aging is a minor post for most users in the beginning even for classic NCA batteries as calendar aging is higher in the beginning of a battery life and lessens with time.

Your battery will degrade from calendar aging even if the car is not used.
I suspect the degradation you se comes from calendar aging, and there is a possibility that the BMS lost a little track over the capacity. Do you charge full once a week? ( this was a LFP car right?)

Looks like your NFP is around 53.5 to 54 and you started/reached 55 as highest number.
This looks like (at most) about 2% loss so far and if this is the first half year you look at about 4% or a little less for the first year.
This is avout expected for LFP at least how they behaved earlier.

The steep change after the highest vaule around 5000mi suggest that it is a BMS estimated curve rather than the true degradation. Maybe the BMS needs more info by a couple of full charges?

True degradation is most probable quite constant(but lessens slowly with time).

 

[theothertom]

Good explanation, @AAKEE . tack

 

[pipp]

10,000 mile update for my 2021 SR+ LFP. The car is now 5 months old. The Tessie app shows a battery capacity of 53.8 kWh (down 1.5% from my original 23 Oct 2021 post of 54.6 kWh), and a max range of 249 miles (down 1.6% from my original post of 253 miles).

It was 9 deg F (-13C) on my drive to work yesterday, so I'm still not sure if any of my degradation is just weather-based. Still thinking it's possible I'll get at least some of my range back when when temps rise again next spring. But even if I don't, under 2% seems reasonable for 10,000 miles and I'm happy with that.

According to the car's screen, I'm now averaging 215 Wh/mi over the life of the car (up from 208 during the 5,000 mile update when I hadn't driven in much cold weather yet). Assuming I could tap into the listed 53.8 kWh battery at my lifetime average 215 Wh/mi efficiency, that gives me a range of 250.2 miles.

My charging is almost entirely Level 2 from a Grizzl-E on a 40 amp circuit in my garage, delivering 32 amps to the car. I charge most nights, but I mix it up to try and let the battery sleep at various states-of-charge. I especially try not to charge to 100% if I don't expect to drive the car the following day. So some nights I'll charge to 70%, some to 80%, some to 90%, and at least a couple times per week I go to 100%. I've used Superchargers several times now, but DC fast charging is still a small percentage of my charging.

Tessie says I've charged 127 times in the 5 months I've owned the car. The LFP battery is supposedly good for 5,000 cycles before it degrades to 80%, I've used 2.5% of those cycles since I bought the car on 23 Sep 2021. At this rate, the car should last a total of 16 years before the battery falls to 80% capacity (202 mile range). (This is based on the total number of charges, but I really need to update these numbers with the "full charge cycles" shown in ScanMyTesla--I will but I don't have it in front of me right now).

Tessie says I've spent $242.15 on electricity for the life of the car, while the same driving in my old Ford Focus would've cost $921.45 in gasoline. So my fuel costs have been 26% compared to keeping my old car.

I'll try to post another update at 15,000 miles, which should happen in the spring, when hopefully some of these numbers will be even better.

Baluchi thanks for all the good information. How do all those miles affect your enjoyment of the car? Do you still get a kick out of driving it?

 

[TexaCali]

Anyone else notice a discrepancy between the energy graph and the trips page? The other day I drove exactly 15 miles, the trip page reported 15 miles and 210 wh/mi. The energy graph on the 15 mile setting showed 201 wh/mi average. That's a way bigger difference than I expected.

 

[Baluchi]

Thanks for the report.
I assume you were plugged in before you left for work?
Do you recall what your wH/mile was on the drive at 9F?

Yes, I'm always preconditioned prior to leaving for work in the morning. It was even colder this morning, and I got 289 wh/mi for the drive. That's with aa significant amount of highway miles doing over 70 MPH.

 

[Baluchi]

SMT use the total charge amount splitted in kWh by the nominal full pack in kWh.

Batteries suffer from two types of degradation:
-Cyclic aging
-Calendar aging.

Cyclic aging is a minor post for most users in the beginning even for classic NCA batteries as calendar aging is higher in the beginning of a battery life and lessens with time.

Your battery will degrade from calendar aging even if the car is not used.
I suspect the degradation you se comes from calendar aging, and there is a possibility that the BMS lost a little track over the capacity. Do you charge full once a week? ( this was a LFP car right?)

Looks like your NFP is around 53.5 to 54 and you started/reached 55 as highest number.
This looks like (at most) about 2% loss so far and if this is the first half year you look at about 4% or a little less for the first year.
This is avout expected for LFP at least how they behaved earlier.

The steep change after the highest vaule around 5000mi suggest that it is a BMS estimated curve rather than the true degradation. Maybe the BMS needs more info by a couple of full charges?

True degradation is most probable quite constant(but lessens slowly with time).

Thanks for the info, and yes I charge to 100% multiple times per week.

 

[Baluchi]

Baluchi thanks for all the good information. How do all those miles affect your enjoyment of the car? Do you still get a kick out of driving it?

It's objectively a great car, I think. However, I'm one of those guys who has been frustrated by the new UI. So that has dampened my enthusiasm for the car, to be honest. What has helped with that is installing ScanMyTesla, which now gets more attention than the main screen.

 

[klappy]

For what it's worth, here are my stats from Tessie, TezLab, Nikola, and Tesla.com.
My stats reflect about a dozen drivers due to renting my car out and users driving many directions on diverse road trips.
I live on the east coast and most renters stayed in the local Tennessee Valley area which is hilly.

Basic Info:
- 2021 M3 SR+ LFP
- DoD: Sept. 5, 2021
- Odometer: 11,788 miles
- Max range: 247-250 miles
- Battery Capacity: 53.7kWh

Driving patterns:
- Rent the car regularly on Turo
- ~7days/mo rented out
- 13 total renters far, ~3/month
- About a dozen road trips
- Longest Road trip >1600m roundtrip
- Daily personal driving is ~20 miles

Supercharging:
- 73 total sessions listed on my Tesla account
- Closest supercharger stats (mostly on Turo renters)
- 21 charges
- 1799 miles added

Destination Charging (with adapter or Tesla Fast charger):
- A few renters and myself have used hotel/parking lot charging on trips.
- 20 total sessions (1,000)

Home Charging:
- Charge on a regular outlet
- Always charging to 100% in garage
- 105 total charge sessions
- 3841mi added

 

[klappy]

For clarity on supercharging:

Supercharging:
- 73 total sessions listed on my Tesla account
- Closest supercharger stats (mostly on Turo renters)
- 21 charges
- 1799 miles added

Should have been nested like this:

Supercharging:

• 73 total sessions listed on my Tesla account
• Closest supercharger stats (mostly on Turo renters)

• 21 charges
• 1799 miles added

 

[theothertom]

Basic Info:
- 2021 M3 SR+ LFP
- DoD: Sept. 5, 2021
- Odometer: 11,788 miles
- Max range: 247-250 miles
- Battery Capacity: 53.7kWh

Those are great stats. thanks for posting

 

[amit_gunner]

Bjorn did a winter range test on the LFP Model 3. Lowest temp was like -8 C. Great effeciency he got. I know -8 maybe not too cold but at least some reference point. Check it out here is the link.

 

[lowercase]

Bjorn did a winter range test on the LFP Model 3. Lowest temp was like -8 C. Great effeciency he got. I know -8 maybe not too cold but at least some reference point. Check it out here is the link.

Yep, just saw that. 400kms in -5 is pretty decent. I should be able to get to the ski hill and back without charging. Big news.

 

[theothertom]

Yep, just saw that. 400kms in -5 is pretty decent

Note that Bjorn started with a warm battery. Sometimes people don't have that option. It would be interesting to see what the consumption/range is on a cold soaked LFP battery.