I can only offer this - my previous three with the standard battery chemistry had degraded about 10% after a couple of years. Then back out 10% cause of only charging to 90% and I was starting each day around 200 miles of range. New SR+ with LFP with 10,000 miles on it has only degraded a few percent (4% or so) and of course I charge to 100%. So most days I leave home with 248 miles of range. The battery (perhaps thanks to heat pump) performs very well in temps around 20 degrees. Very minimal difference. Also super charges faster than my old one. I look at the range bump I would have with the LR and (for me) don’t feel like it would have been money well spent. But that’s just one perspective.Lots of interesting information on this thread.
I live in Scotland which can get a bit cold in winter, I do around 30,000 miles per year and I am about to order a model 3.
I would like a long range because of the range, performance, four wheel drive, premium interior etc but I am starting to wonder if the LFP standard range may be a better option, due to the higher battery degradation I would probably suffer with the long range.
I plan to keep the car for around four years so it will probably end up with quite a lot of miles on it.
I had made up my mind for the exact specification that I wanted but now I am not so sure.
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Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion
- Thread starter Baluchi
- Start date
You kinda got downvoted for this, but in your defense the messaging from Elon (or at least the widespread interpretation of Elon's messaging) has been that LFP batteries like to be at 100%. So it's totally understandable that anyone paying attention to the Tesla news cycle would be under the same impression you were under. You have to dig pretty deep to realize that Tesla is encouraging 100% charging of LFP batteries to benefit their BMS, not necessarily to benefit the battery itself. So you totally get a pass for your response in my book.
EDIT: One more thought on this. I think they key to keeping your BMS calibrated isn't to charge to 100% all the time. It's to charge to varying SoCs, including 100% every 3-7 cycles. Just in my experience, if I charge to 100% multiple days in a row, the BMS range calculation starts to drop. But throw in some 70% and 90% charges, and it can bump back up. So for me, a good rotation of charge levels seems to be the way to go.
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I've only noticed it once so far this winter, and I think it was much colder than 28F. But I can go a week without opening the Tesla app, so maybe I'm just missing it.
This has been my experience as well with a 2021 SR+ LFP. I charge to 100% pretty much every day (after discharging to about 65-70%) and experienced the same initial drop to 248 total range but it’s pretty much held there for months. I’m in Northern California and as temps have increased a little bit recently I’m getting around 90% (or more) of quoted range from the BMS vs. actual miles traveled, and about 90% of those miles are on the freeway between 65-75mph.
My "simple" recommendation is to charge it to 100%, then recharge it when you will need more charge than you have remaining. Don't plug it in and charge it every day. Basically treat it like an ICE.
To prolong the life of the Tesla LFP pack the best you can and add a bit of complexity, charge it to 50% and then recharge back to 50% when needed, but every couple weeks charge it to 100% to help the BMS out.
I guy in a local forum here wonder why his Stats suddenly drop like this after 26-27.000 km. I get curious about this too ? 
Can this kind of drastic drop be expected or can it be calibration issue ?
He writes:
I wonder a bit about this graph in STATS. According to it, the battery suddenly started to run drastically shorter around 26-27,000 km.
It's not because of winter, because I got it in December 2020, so I tried it before.
Have others with the STATS app seen something similar? It is an SR + LFP before heat pump.
Can this kind of drastic drop be expected or can it be calibration issue ?
He writes:
I wonder a bit about this graph in STATS. According to it, the battery suddenly started to run drastically shorter around 26-27,000 km.
It's not because of winter, because I got it in December 2020, so I tried it before.
Have others with the STATS app seen something similar? It is an SR + LFP before heat pump.
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That's a quick 5% drop! It's really hard for me to start guessing what happened without knowing more about his situation. But I'll definitely report here if something similar happens when I get to 15,000 miles on my odometer.I guy in a local forum here wonder why his Stats suddenly drop like this after 26-27.000 km. I get curious about this too ?
Can this kind of drastic drop be expected or can it be calibration issue ?
He writes:
I wonder a bit about this graph in STATS. According to it, the battery suddenly started to run drastically shorter around 26-27,000 km.
It's not because of winter, because I got it in December 2020, so I tried it before.
Have others with the STATS app seen something similar? It is an SR + LFP before heat pump.
Thanks, your posts are very helpful. I'd like to ask:
What has been the cold soaked, not trip, but your return home Wh/mi, ~10F?
What range remains when you arrive, vs. leave work 8hrs later, in ~10F temps?
How many additional miles of rated range do you lose, to get home. More than the ~30 you travel, I presume?
Preconditioning distorts winter efficiency, because your wall and not the battery is providing some of that winter energy. Watt-hours from successive trips w/o chargers, say on vacation, etc., answer a question a few of us have and are also where I thought The Limiting Factor's concerns came from. For example, I had to learn (after 4 MS's) that it takes about 40 miles of range to go 20 miles, if the car has cold soaked at about 15f (ie, not plugged in). With LFP, I assume it would be worse. Reading daily average consumption with a pre-condition, or FTM "lifetime" Wh/mi averages doesn't distill the answer to the "LFP in cold" question. Neither did Bjorn's test, in my opinion. At 0C, or 32F, having an extra ~5KWh, pre-conditioning and basically never cooling down really helped, LOL.
Also, helpful to know the following regen numbers. I still get 60KW on my older (not updated) MS, while wife's "updated" car hardly ever leaves cold-state / gimped regen. That's at 5K lb. At a Model 3's ~4k, 37k is probably good but can't imagine 8KW feels like much?
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I always precondition in the morning when it's coldest, so I don't have great examples of the numbers you're looking for. Looking back through my Tessie logs, this is the coldest afternoon commute I've done without the benefit of preconditioning...
| Started At (CST) | Ended At (CST) | Duration (Minutes) | Starting Location | Starting Odometer (mi) | Ending Location | Ending Odometer (mi) | Starting Battery (%) | Ending Battery (%) | Average Inside Temperature (°F) | Average Outside Temperature (°F) | Average Speed (mph) | Max Speed (mph) | Rated Range Used (mi) | Distance (mi) | Total Energy Used (kWh) | Average Energy Used (Wh/mi) |
1/20/22 15:37 | 1/20/22 16:41 | 64 | Work | 10048.1 | Home | 10097.6 | 71 | 39 | 67.98 | 19.78 | 50 | 75 | 76.58 | 49.5 | 16.53 | 334 |
I checked the weather for that day, it would've been 16 deg F by the time I got home, dry, with 10 mph cross winds.
It'd be nice to have the slider for LFP packs for people like you, if nothing else so that you can get full regen braking at the start of each drive most days - for example, charge to 90% most of the time, then charge to 100% every week or two.I do this on the weekends, but during the week I can use more than 50% of my battery each day to drive back-and-forth to work. So I've got to charge daily.
That said, if you are using that much of your battery daily, the LFP should work quite well for you - time the charge by using the departure charge timer so it finishes charging as close as possible to your departure time so it doesn't normally spend much time at 100%.
Remember cycle life of LFP cells is very good even when performing 100% depth of discharge, just don't leave it at 100% for too long when possible.
I am regularly only consuming about 8% of the battery level per day (10 to 12 miles).
Given that I have the LFP battery (2022 Model 3 RWD);
should I charged it back up to 100% DAILY ? (slow home charging) OR
should let the battery level dip below a certain level (say 50%) BEFORE I charge it back to 100%?
Please help !
Given that I have the LFP battery (2022 Model 3 RWD);
should I charged it back up to 100% DAILY ? (slow home charging) OR
should let the battery level dip below a certain level (say 50%) BEFORE I charge it back to 100%?
Please help !
Based on what I've read, it's better to let it get to 50% before charging it back to about 70-80% and to 100% occasionally.
I don't have the car yet but i am in the same boat as you . I also only drive 10 miles a day maybe max. Only drop my kid to school and pick up and work from home. So, i would charge to 100% once a Week most likely Friday overnight since Weekends i tend to drive little more. Then i would let it go down to about 35 to 40% and charge it back up to 100% again on a Level 2 charger. Now since you are doing as trickle charging i would say yes 50% is a good idea but then again you are looking at 24 hours to go back up to 100% . One more thing i 'll be pre conditioning the car for about 15 miniutes or so each time i drive it. So that would also deplet about few% each day just to warm up the cabin. So, thats my plan with LFP charging .
Yes, I agree. My problem is that I was planning to take advantage of the "super off-peak" electricity rates which is only between 12 am and 6 am, weekday. So if I deplete to 50%, it would take me approx 50/2 % (or 25 days) to get back to 100%. Note: I calculated that using by my slow charging method, I would have a net +2% each day. Did not realize this before purchase! Anyway I don't think it would have swayed my decision
For LFP battery, present in the 2022 model 3 RWD, TESLA recommends charging to 100% at least once a week. My problem is how low show it go down to before recharging back up to 100%.
If you know something to the contrary, please reply
In your case with only 6 hours of off-peak charging I would keep it charged between 80-90% everyday and charge it to 100% twice a month using about 6-7 hours of peak charging each time.
334 wh/mi is not bad. I believe I'd be ~400 in those conditions (P85D). That said, 50 miles is a longer drive to smooth out those warm-up effects. Now, if we could find a non-LFP (NCA) Model 3 in those same conditions the assumption would probably be better wh/mi, but by how much?
FWIW, my "minimum EV range" criteria has always been forgetting to charge and still being able to make the 2nd round-trip commute (under ALL circumstances). 50 each way makes that tough when cold is in the mix.
That makes sense and the reason I don't worry about that too much is because I work in a large city with five different supercharger stations. One is pretty close to my work, so if I ever need to make two trips in one day (which I have) I can always top off for a few minutes to finish the second trip.
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