Discussion: Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

[stopcrazypp]

Low to zero visibility is exactly the situation that I want my car to help me most. In the UK, we have plenty of rain and fog and having assistance to see through it would be useful. Relying solely on cameras may work in the bright sunshine of the California, but worries me greatly in other areas where visibility is regularly an issue.

I’d love my car to be able to give me more confidence in difficult conditions. That said, without any driver aids, driving in poor visibility is already stressfu.

So you are saying you would turn on ACC when in low visibility conditions instead of driving manually at slower speeds? That's the use case I'm talking about.

 

[GlockWorkOrnge]

It's obviously been a goal of the company for many years now, and they've been working on it, but if they had supply chain issues and had to either release software that does 80-90% of what their previous version did, or not ship out almost any vehicles in the quarter, I'm pretty sure we all know the answer to this question. I don't think TV is dangerous or severely lacking, but I'm sure it's not capable of handling every single thing their previous "radar" versions did. Elon basically told us this, with certain functions being limited for a period of time (2 weeks HA) while they tweak things. They were backed into a corner and made the best decision with their available options, whether it was the right decision, only time will tell...

I picked up my M3 during the switch, so I have never used Summon or Autosteer in excess of 75 MPH, so I guess I don't know what I am missing.

"2 weeks." What a crock.

 

[Stranger Dings]

So you are saying you would turn on ACC when in low visibility conditions instead of driving manually at slower speeds? That's the use case I'm talking about.

No, sorry, I wasn’t being clear. I would LIKE to be able to use and trust ACC in low visibility. A system that can see through the rain and fog when I can’t would be a great safety feature.

When the weather is bad, I slow right down and hope for the best.

 

[stopcrazypp]

No, sorry, I wasn’t being clear. I would LIKE to be able to use and trust ACC in low visibility. A system that can see through the rain and fog when I can’t would be a great safety feature.

When the weather is bad, I slow right down and hope for the best.

That's kind of my point in response to the original comment in the whole chain. You can't trust ACC anyways in such a situation, so the theoretical advantage in weather is kind of moot. As mentioned the huge limitation in terms of reacting to stationary objects makes it very dangerous to trust radar in low visibility conditions. This may change when the so called "4D" high resolution radar units become common, but we are not there yet.

 

[TAfirehawk]

Add me to the list of very disappointed people in the Tesla Vision at this point (but still hopeful that updates improve it). The phantom braking happens 5-10 times per hour of highway driving, with some being significant slow downs that I am glad somebody wasn't right behind me. I don't have a lot to add from previous posts but just confirming the issues, like horrible auto high beams, already reported by actual Tesla Vision drivers.

My previous ride was a 2020 Toyota Corolla and quite frankly its lane centering technology, radar cruise control, and auto high beams are WAY better than my M3LR with Tesla Vision. Sad that a $20k car does better with the most used driving technology than the $60k car.

I do want to add some info. While using AP and having auto high beams option turned on, I am able to go dim manually without AP kicking out. So the high beams situation is just a disappointment compared to other "cheap" vehicles.

Today the serious issue showed up again with the TACC hitting the brakes doing 75 MPH on the highway with nobody and nothing around. It threw me forward enough to lock and catch me in the seat belt. In 10 days of driving this is the second or third time for this unsafe situation. The annoying part is that the using Navigate on AutoPilot shows the TACC seeing phantom things on average of every 5 miles on a 4 lane highway. I bet I clicked 'bug report' 30 times today and it was a "normal" day for the inept Tesla Vision.

 

[indecay]

I’m a thousand miles in on my radarless Y and it’s nearly unusable. Auto brights can’t handle construction signs and other reflections without throwing a light switch rave and pissing off every other driver on the road.
Even worse is the phantom braking that occurs every 15 minutes or so, during daytime open highway driving
This is so incredibly unsafe to use, and I thought my 3 with radar was poor with autopilot. At least TACC worked without a hitch.
Very very disappointed…

 

[Sackmonkey]

This is exactly what I've been saying all along (echo my experience in a rental Corolla) and always get shot down by the stans. And then in this thread, it was suggested that it must be because I don't know how to use a steering wheel I was actually having a decent experience with AP over the weekend -- wearing sunglasses seems to get rid of the nags every 10-15 seconds. But wouldn't you know it, bright sunny 90 degree day and the auto wipers randomly decide to activate. Can't turn them off, auto wipers are required for autopilot. So, autopilot went off.

Anxious to have it explained that I don't understand how to use wipers, or maybe that I didn't try using the windshield washer for a precise 3.875 seconds required to try to fix it as per an obscure Elon tweet, or that maybe a bug splattered in front of the camera and this is a feature to smear the bug guts equally across the full camera array.

Let's face it, this all implies that FCW/AEB isn't actually functional. It's obnoxious and maddening and this is going to come back to bite Tesla. Flaky autopilot is one thing, flaky safety systems gets federal agencies involved. This is a genuine safety issue (and a consumer issue, as we were sold functional FCW and AEB).

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

Auto wipers are absolutely NOT required for autopilot. At least not on my TV model 3P.

 

[TAfirehawk]

Auto wipers are absolutely NOT required for autopilot. At least not on my TV model 3P.

I get a message on my 2 week old M3LR that says I can't turn off the auto wipers. Maybe it was just on NoA and not AP, or that I am on 18.2 software.

 

[activehavoc]

I’m a thousand miles in on my radarless Y and it’s nearly unusable. Auto brights can’t handle construction signs and other reflections without throwing a light switch rave and pissing off every other driver on the road.
Even worse is the phantom braking that occurs every 15 minutes or so, during daytime open highway driving
This is so incredibly unsafe to use, and I thought my 3 with radar was poor with autopilot. At least TACC worked without a hitch.
Very very disappointed…

800Km in, I have yet to experience phantom braking. Nor any issue with AP, it is actually great in heavy traffic, even detecting idiots that cut in at the last second.

Will do a 600Km trip this week, will have a larger sample.

 

[Sackmonkey]

I get a message on my 2 week old M3LR that says I can't turn off the auto wipers. Maybe it was just on NoA and not AP, or that I am on 18.2 software.

I don't know what NoA means? I'm on 18.3 btw.

I will say this though: I was driving in daytime in light rain with Auto wipers (which were working perfectly, btw) and I had 4 or 5 phantom braking events in about 5 minutes. It was terrible.

 

[rjpjnk]

800Km in, I have yet to experience phantom braking. Nor any issue with AP, it is actually great in heavy traffic, even detecting idiots that cut in at the last second.

It seems like the AP performance reports vary greatly. For some it works well and for others it is nearly undrivable. Could this really be all situational? I wonder if some cars just perform better than others? Perhaps parts tolerances or calibration play a role.

 

[snikt]

Software versions? It seems like there's a 2021.3.103 and 2021.4.18.x both which are the latest version for new vision cars. Maybe they are testing 2 totally different things?

 

[activehavoc]

It seems like the AP performance reports vary greatly. For some it works well and for others it is nearly undrivable. Could this really be all situational? I wonder if some cars just perform better than others? Perhaps parts tolerances or calibration play a role.

yes maybe, I am on 2021.4.18.3. I got the car on 2021.4.18.2 and therefore calibrated with this version.

Maybe a good idea for people experiencing issues to recalibrate the sensors & cameras. Also wonder if some people played and screwed up their headlights ajustements too.

 

[BierNut]

Software versions? It seems like there's a 2021.3.103 and 2021.4.18.x both which are the latest version for new vision cars. Maybe they are testing 2 totally different things?

My car is vision-only running 2021.3.103 and AP seems to work well, though this is my first Tesla so I don't really have anything to compare it to. I'm not getting phantom braking (though it can be overly cautious when it sees people walking on the sidewalk resulting in a dramatic slow-down). It has even done well when driving into direct sunlight during sunset. Overall I've been very impressed and my trust-level in the system is growing. I do wonder if those reporting a poor experience are running 2021.4.18.2?

As for the auto-wipers... I live in Vegas, what is this "rain" you speak of?

 

[rhumbliner]

Low to zero visibility is exactly the situation that I want my car to help me most.

My experience driving my MS in heavy rain or fog is that radar worked great for seeing the vehicle in front of me — even when I couldn’t — but it was no help seeing the white lines dividing the lanes. My ACC (with radar) routinely told me to take over because it couldn’t determine the lane even tho it could clearly see the vehicle in front of me.

 

[everydaymilk]

I'm with my first Tesla vehicle, so I'm not sure what issues are with the new "Vision only" or if I have actual camera issues.
- I often see cars bouncing left and right within their lanes on the Autopilot Visualizer.
- I see sometimes cars disappear when they go through my blindspots and reappear once they drive past.
- I've had my car lower the max speed from 75 -> 45 causing my car to heavily slow down randomly (I think it may think that I am on a side street instead of a freeway?).
- I've seen a semi truck seemingly start swerving into my car on the visualizer (although it didn't affect my autopilot it did freak me out).
- Sometimes the visualizer lane lines will wiggle left and right even if my car is at a stop.

Are others having similar experiences or does this sound like something's actually wrong with my cameras? I tried recalibrating the camera's once and I don't think I saw any changes. It's a little frustrating to not know if my car has actual problems or if this is normal for the new Vision only? Sorry if this has been asked before or is common, I didn't read through the 20 pages

 

[funtommy]

My car is vision-only running 2021.3.103 and AP seems to work well, though this is my first Tesla so I don't really have anything to compare it to. I'm not getting phantom braking (though it can be overly cautious when it sees people walking on the sidewalk resulting in a dramatic slow-down). It has even done well when driving into direct sunlight during sunset. Overall I've been very impressed and my trust-level in the system is growing. I do wonder if those reporting a poor experience are running 2021.4.18.2?

As for the auto-wipers... I live in Vegas, what is this "rain" you speak of?

I like your theory. I'm running 2021.4.18.2 in my radarless 2021 M3LR. It's my first Tesla also, but the phantom braking is unmistakable (and pretty unnerving).

 

[cardsdoc]

I'm with my first Tesla vehicle, so I'm not sure what issues are with the new "Vision only" or if I have actual camera issues.
- I often see cars bouncing left and right within their lanes on the Autopilot Visualizer.
- I see sometimes cars disappear when they go through my blindspots and reappear once they drive past.
- I've had my car lower the max speed from 75 -> 45 causing my car to heavily slow down randomly (I think it may think that I am on a side street instead of a freeway?).
- I've seen a semi truck seemingly start swerving into my car on the visualizer (although it didn't affect my autopilot it did freak me out).
- Sometimes the visualizer lane lines will wiggle left and right even if my car is at a stop.

Are others having similar experiences or does this sound like something's actually wrong with my cameras? I tried recalibrating the camera's once and I don't think I saw any changes. It's a little frustrating to not know if my car has actual problems or if this is normal for the new Vision only? Sorry if this has been asked before or is common, I didn't read through the 20 pages

I have definitely seen both lines and surrounding vehicles bounce around quite a bit on my vision only car but also have no comparison. I have had phantom braking while using AP a couple times like others have reported. Haven't tried much in bad weather but for me AP has worked very well in stop and go traffic and just cruising on the highway when there is no construction and not very congested.

 

[snikt]

I'm with my first Tesla vehicle, so I'm not sure what issues are with the new "Vision only" or if I have actual camera issues.
- I often see cars bouncing left and right within their lanes on the Autopilot Visualizer.
- I see sometimes cars disappear when they go through my blindspots and reappear once they drive past.
- I've had my car lower the max speed from 75 -> 45 causing my car to heavily slow down randomly (I think it may think that I am on a side street instead of a freeway?).
- I've seen a semi truck seemingly start swerving into my car on the visualizer (although it didn't affect my autopilot it did freak me out).
- Sometimes the visualizer lane lines will wiggle left and right even if my car is at a stop.

Are others having similar experiences or does this sound like something's actually wrong with my cameras? I tried recalibrating the camera's once and I don't think I saw any changes. It's a little frustrating to not know if my car has actual problems or if this is normal for the new Vision only? Sorry if this has been asked before or is common, I didn't read through the 20 pages

I've seen some bouncy vehicles too, but that wouldn't be any different on a radar car. There's only a radar on the very front

 

[nobznss]

I will say, the fantom breaking isn't anything new nor specific to my Model 3. I have an X as well, and same issue - in fact I probably get it more frequently on my X than on the 3. Kind of interesting...