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Master Thread: New Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

AlexParker

Member
Aug 5, 2020
169
120
Denver, CO
So because he saw that the current version is only for HW3 that means Tesla will never release a version for HW2/2.5? Wow, I had no idea that he knew Tesla's future plans.
OK Dude. If we’re wrong, we’re wrong. If he’s right, he’s right. So far the evidence is in his favor, but if he’s wrong - then it could be good or bad depending on how you feel about Vision.
 

ShaolinJ

Member
Aug 5, 2020
75
70
Las Vegas
Agreed, but considering that this could impact Tesla customers financially in the meantime… it would have been nice for Tesla to have gotten those certifications before changing everything with no notice to anyone.

In the end, I have faith that it’ll all be fine, but I can understand people not being happy with how this was all done.
I have a suspicion that this may be a problem for Tesla. The problem is a camera can be easily blinded, thereby redering a critical safety feature useless. Sure they can give us a warning that said critical safety features arent working, but that's the issue; are you supposed to immediately pull over and clean the cameras?
 

SpaceCash

Intergalactic Planetary, Planetary Intergalactic
Jul 5, 2017
1,673
12,969
Earth
I have a suspicion that this may be a problem for Tesla. The problem is a camera can be easily blinded, thereby redering a critical safety feature useless. Sure they can give us a warning that said critical safety features arent working, but that's the issue; are you supposed to immediately pull over and clean the cameras?
Yeah I live somewhere with daily harsh sun glare, frequent fog, rain, and snow. And regular 80MPH speed limits (wherein most people go 90-100).
Not stoked about the radar-delete and I straight up do not believe they'll be bringing functionality back to par within a few weeks.
 
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MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,545
21,745
USA
Radar delete is magnitudes less of a rug pull than the first AP2 owners.

I remember taking delivery of my HW2 Tesla and only having 1987 cruise control tech at time of delivery. No adaptive, just dumb barreling forward at a set speed.

I was also one of the first 1000 to get Tesla’s version of auto steer. It was limited to 25 miles per hour. Yes.. 25mph and only on highways. I’d test it out at like 3AM to not be a hazard to other drivers.

It was 2.5-3 years after taking delivery before it achieved parity with the mobile eye AP1. It was so slow and bad we called it AP parody forever.

I am sure the chip shortage pulled the timeline forward and not ideal for consumers and Tesla.

However, no long term foul as this was in the works regardless.

The limitations while annoying are manageable and will be fixed in short order.
Tesla has already tested AP vision substantially but is wise to err on the side of abundant caution.
I’m sure by quarters end, radar will just be extra weight in my HW3 cars.
Phantom braking sucks, eliminating radar as a decision maker will fix this nagging issue permanently.
 

activehavoc

Member
May 9, 2021
26
14
new york
Thinking about it a bit more, I`d speculate Tesla's issue is related to processing power and not the fact that they have issues with the logic itself.

What does disabling lane keep assist has do to with radar removal? The processor doing predictions based on the images has to prioritize things like foward collision detection now and is probably overruning. No more time consistently evaluate for lane keep assist. Also limiting autosteer to a certain speed sounds the same.

Before they probably fell back to radar, when overruning so they did not have to prioritize FCDW... Just a thought.

If so they are probably trying to optimize the code... meaning reduce the precision... until more processing power becomes available.
 

ShaolinJ

Member
Aug 5, 2020
75
70
Las Vegas
Yeah I live somewhere with daily harsh sun glare, frequent fog, rain, and snow. And regular 80MPH speed limits (wherein most people go 90-100).
Not stoked about the radar-delete and I straight up do not believe they'll be bringing functionality back to par within a few weeks.
Exactly. I understand the point that vision is more detailed than radar.
But what I dont get is the lack of a failsafe for basic safety features like emergency braking, when a camera system is so easily disabled. I live in sunny vegas, and regularly see the Camera is Blinded message. I wonder how it will be if you live somewhere wet and muddy, or snowy, surely the cameras get blinded there too.
 

SpaceCash

Intergalactic Planetary, Planetary Intergalactic
Jul 5, 2017
1,673
12,969
Earth
Exactly. I understand the point that vision is more detailed than radar.
But what I dont get is the lack of a failsafe for basic safety features like emergency braking, when a camera system is so easily disabled. I live in sunny vegas, and regularly see the Camera is Blinded message. I wonder how it will be if you live somewhere wet and muddy, or snowy, surely the cameras get blinded there too.
They do, all the time. And I moved from Vegas this year btw! Here in Montana we get extreme sun glare and when that's gone it means we're in a snowstorm or it's foggy or raining. Beautiful place to live but my previous model 3 would get blinded on a regular basis.
Not sure if I mentioned in this thread but additionally, most of the speed limits are 80MPH which the autosteer is apparently not even capable of anymore. Most people in said 80 zones go 90-100.
"Pure Vision" seems objectively less capable than with radar.
 
Feb 15, 2019
380
127
arizona
I'm wondering why they changed to Vision. How is that going to work in fog or heavy rain? I don't see how it can if it is relying only on optics.

And, for those of us with older 3's ( and other Teslas) will they just disable our radar AP and FSD?
How can they get away with that for those of us who paid thousands for AP or FSD? We BOUGHT the systems.
I don't see how they can just disable the AP / FSD.
Nor how they can force us to accept changing to Vision. We bought radar based systems.

I imagine they will no longer update radar based systems though through updates. So what we have is what we will have from now on. Unless they offer to update us to Vision for free. But knowing Tesla they will want to charge us another few thousand dollars to be updated.
 

SpaceCash

Intergalactic Planetary, Planetary Intergalactic
Jul 5, 2017
1,673
12,969
Earth
I'm wondering why they changed to Vision. How is that going to work in fog or heavy rain? I don't see how it can if it is relying only on optics.

And, for those of us with older 3's ( and other Teslas) will they just disable our radar AP and FSD?
How can they get away with that for those of us who paid thousands for AP or FSD? We BOUGHT the systems.
I don't see how they can just disable the AP / FSD.
Nor how they can force us to accept changing to Vision. We bought radar based systems.

I imagine they will no longer update radar based systems though through updates. So what we have is what we will have from now on. Unless they offer to update us to Vision for free. But knowing Tesla they will want to charge us another few thousand dollars to be updated.
Yeah this is the first time I've been legitimately pissed with Tesla. Delay my delivery for months or years, not mad. But gimping the car I reserved... I'm mad.
You can't try to claim it's an upgrade either. The vision-only cars have less functionality, period.
 
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techlogik

Closed
Mar 22, 2021
380
271
FL
I kind of translate this whole thing that people who have radar are never getting FSD. Otherwise, Tesla is committing to maintaining testing and developing the capabilities on two entire systems in essence for at least 10yrs+ or whatever the expected live of this older cars are. So either that is what they are doing and going to actually deliver FSD for all previous vehicles....or the vapor ware complaint is valid and only the June forward cars will get the capabilities?

Am I missing this? Or did they say they are still developing and will deliver as promised for years now FSD city driving etc for every single vehicle no matter what technology or hardware they have?

Thx
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
2,188
4,171
mtn view, ca
I've heard the rumors of tesla offering EAP as an option in the US, again. and I toyed with the idea of buying it (I will not ever buy FSD from tesla, but some of the eap features might be useful).

but that would mean I'd have to start taking the updates again, and I'm not ready to do that.

so, that's that for me, I guess. no eap and definitely no fsd. I like the ap that I have now and I'm quite ok with the radar that is installed and working.

and I also have to avoid taking the car in to tesla, since I can't lock my firmware version down and they are known to update you, even against your will.

this whole direction they are going in just sucks.

I know a lot of you are happier, but some of us definitely are NOT.
 

Jejunjm

Member
Mar 26, 2021
201
113
Tucson az
I kind of translate this whole thing that people who have radar are never getting FSD. Otherwise, Tesla is committing to maintaining testing and developing the capabilities on two entire systems in essence for at least 10yrs+ or whatever the expected live of this older cars are. So either that is what they are doing and going to actually deliver FSD for all previous vehicles....or the vapor ware complaint is valid and only the June forward cars will get the capabilities?

Am I missing this? Or did they say they are still developing and will deliver as promised for years now FSD city driving etc for every single vehicle no matter what technology or hardware they have?

Thx
As far as we know the cameras are the same so there is no reason a radar hw3 couldn't get the same features. That being said I believe true level 5 fsd is a pipe dream with current sensor technology. It's two weeks out!
 

Yoliber

Member
Jun 29, 2020
141
129
Irvine, CA
I kind of translate this whole thing that people who have radar are never getting FSD. Otherwise, Tesla is committing to maintaining testing and developing the capabilities on two entire systems in essence for at least 10yrs+ or whatever the expected live of this older cars are. So either that is what they are doing and going to actually deliver FSD for all previous vehicles....or the vapor ware complaint is valid and only the June forward cars will get the capabilities?

Am I missing this? Or did they say they are still developing and will deliver as promised for years now FSD city driving etc for every single vehicle no matter what technology or hardware they have?

Thx
The hardware is all the same except for the omission of radar. Their plan is to transition people with radar to Tesla vision after Tesla vision reaches parity.
 

AlexParker

Member
Aug 5, 2020
169
120
Denver, CO
I'm wondering why they changed to Vision. How is that going to work in fog or heavy rain? I don't see how it can if it is relying only on optics.

And, for those of us with older 3's ( and other Teslas) will they just disable our radar AP and FSD?
How can they get away with that for those of us who paid thousands for AP or FSD? We BOUGHT the systems.
I don't see how they can just disable the AP / FSD.
Nor how they can force us to accept changing to Vision. We bought radar based systems.

I imagine they will no longer update radar based systems though through updates. So what we have is what we will have from now on. Unless they offer to update us to Vision for free. But knowing Tesla they will want to charge us another few thousand dollars to be updated.
I believe in some of the FSD beta have shown that this isn’t an issue for them - so something has changed. Personally, I’m in the wait and see mode. I’m not making a judgement on what I don’t know.
 

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