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MASTER THREAD: Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

Ross1

Member
Sep 30, 2015
86
23
Australia
I have a new, MIC M3. Long Range.
I bought it having 673 km of range.
The next week this was changed to a different test cycle, so I have 580 km.
Take off 20% from the top only charging to 80%, take off 20% at the bottom, we have 60% of 580 km = 348.
OK, we can charge prior to a trip to 100% and get a lift home on a tow truck. However 348 is under test conditions. So lets say 280 is realistic. That is a 300 km drop from the advertised range, or 393 less than we bought.
Consider a car with 300 km range, or MINI with 120 km range, could you actually drive anywhere?
How could anyone buy anything less? And BTW that range doesn't allow for any rapid rabid acceleration, or hills. Or going up mountains..
So glad didn't buy a Hyundai. High and Dry looks like the new normal.
 

Flesh

Member
Jul 18, 2021
16
7
Slovenija
No, you really don’t need to drive slow to get the 300km this time of year. I drive 130km/hr and have no problem. Driving 160km/hr (100mph) honestly is probably not the best idea regardless. And yes at that speed it will be worse. But at 400Wh/mi, 250Wh/km, you’ll still be able to go at least 280km, 175 miles. With a brand new car you should be able to do ~300km at that efficiency, if you insist.
Mycar is 2 years old20k km and driving 150-160 km/h it does just barely 250km
 
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Flesh

Member
Jul 18, 2021
16
7
Slovenija
No, you really don’t need to drive slow to get the 300km this time of year. I drive 130km/hr and have no problem. Driving 160km/hr (100mph) honestly is probably not the best idea regardless. And yes at that speed it will be worse. But at 400Wh/mi, 250Wh/km, you’ll still be able to go at least 280km, 175 miles. With a brand new car you should be able to do ~300km at that efficiency, if you insist.
Also last week charged to 360km range. Average consumption was 240wh/h and i manage to make 150km barely at battery at 5% is model 3performance 2019 20k miles. Should i take to service and what i would need to say?
 
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Gasaraki

Active Member
Oct 21, 2019
2,207
1,523
Syracuse, NY
Yes, agreed. More range is still needed due to the facts you stated. That's why Tesla didn't want to release the Model Y SR cause the range is too short.

Only using 10-80% of battery, wind/weather related loses, temperature, tire types, tire sizes, etc.

650km (~400 miles) would be the perfect range for me. After you cut out all the loses, you'll get like 480km (~300 miles) of usable range.
 

roblab

Active Member
Jul 15, 2008
3,810
3,291
Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
Charging to 90% will not hurt your battery, and in a pinch you can use the bottom of your range to 5% (I've used mine to zero), so there's another 90km. I always fill to 90%, have for all previous Teslas I've owned, so I'm ready for any unplanned drive. I love having my 400 mile LR ready to go without thinking, "Wait! I have to top up my car!"
 

Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
3,033
2,339
Rancho Cucamonga
Between me and my coworkers, we have 4 LR AWD Model 3 all bought within a month of each others in 2018 Aug/Sept. I charged mine to 90%. Others charged to 80% or 70%. After about 3 years, we all have almost exactly the same battery degradation. Currently full charge is about 90% of the original 310 miles. So charge whatever you feel comfortable as long as it is not 100% everyday.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,855
3,565
Maine
I have a new, MIC M3. Long Range.
I bought it having 673 km of range.
The next week this was changed to a different test cycle, so I have 580 km.
Take off 20% from the top only charging to 80%, take off 20% at the bottom, we have 60% of 580 km = 348.
OK, we can charge prior to a trip to 100% and get a lift home on a tow truck. However 348 is under test conditions. So lets say 280 is realistic. That is a 300 km drop from the advertised range, or 393 less than we bought.
Consider a car with 300 km range, or MINI with 120 km range, could you actually drive anywhere?
How could anyone buy anything less? And BTW that range doesn't allow for any rapid rabid acceleration, or hills. Or going up mountains..
So glad didn't buy a Hyundai. High and Dry looks like the new normal.
Would be nice to know what test cycles you are referring to ? I'll guess that the 673km was the Chinese NEDC cycle. Is the 580km the WLTP cycle?

First off, everyone's comfort level with SOC usage is different, but I'd have no problems with charging up to 100% for a trip, then go as low as 10% before recharging, so 90% of whatever range you get, depends a lot upon the speeds you drive, compared to the test cycle.

I like to use ABRP's reference consumption, because it's based off a steady state speed. They have the Model 3 at 165Wh/km @ 110km/h or 6.06km/kWh @ 110km/h. According to them, that's conservative. Is it? When I convert to US figs, imperial, I know I get better efficiency at that steady state speed.

So, assuming ABRP is fairly accurate, then 100% max range at 110km/h is 497km, but if you only use 90% SOC, then 447km. If you drive faster than 110km/h, you can plug it into ABRP, and get the comparable adjustment in range. I know if I drive 15% faster than the 110km/h rating, I lose an additional 13%, so about 390km if you drive 126km/h. YMMV.
 

snikt

Member
May 14, 2021
289
404
Denver, CO
ABRP seems conservative to me, I'm a pretty new owner so I've only done a couple comparisons. On a mountain trip that's 200 miles ABRP said I would leave with 90% and arrive back home with 30%, I did the actual trip and arrived home with 39%.

Did my calculations in the morning too when it was cool, it warmed up to 95F for a big part of the return trip.

Started at around 5,000FT and ended at 10,000FT, then back
 

Flesh

Member
Jul 18, 2021
16
7
Slovenija
390Wh/mi is actually pretty great efficiency at 100mph!
image.jpg
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,158
14,136
San Diego
It drained 35% of the battery
You just need to tell us the rated miles it used. Anyway, that should have been about 64 rated miles (103km).

If that was 35%, that would imply your full charge is 294km, so you have 41% battery capacity loss. (Which I doubt!)

Need actual pictures of your display of your battery energy to know. (Not just %, that doesn't say anything about energy by itself.)
 

Flesh

Member
Jul 18, 2021
16
7
Slovenija
You just need to tell us the rated miles it used. Anyway, that should have been about 64 rated miles (103km).

If that was 35%, that would imply your full charge is 294km, so you have 41% battery capacity loss. (Which I doubt!)

Need actual pictures of your display of your battery energy to know. (Not just %, that doesn't say anything about energy by itself.)
So my explenation was a lit stranege. My full charge is 466 km. The problems comes how the battery gets drained. This trip that i sent you the batter i filled it up to 77% and atm i did 120km used 21kw/h 172wh/km average and the battery is at 31%. So i used 46% for 120km which is just really poor or not?
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
11,435
13,315
Riverside Co. CA
So my explenation was a lit stranege. My full charge is 466 km. The problems comes how the battery gets drained. This trip that i sent you the batter i filled it up to 77% and atm i did 120km used 21kw/h 172wh/km average and the battery is at 31%. So i used 46% for 120km which is just really poor or not?

@AlanSubie4Life is trying to help you, but in order for him to give you any information you will need to do the calculations shown in the MANNER in which they are shown, in this thread:


But there is almost positively nothing wrong with your car. The calculation would just let you know what the energy capacity of your vehicle is. There is nothing you are going to do to change the wh/km numbers other than driving slower, or over less terrain, etc.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
11,158
14,136
San Diego
77% and atm i did 120km used 21kw/h 172wh/km average and the battery is at 31%. So i used 46% for 120km which is just really poor or not?

Did you do this right away? Did you stop? I'd be surprised if you charged to 77%, immediately started driving and didn't stop until you got to 31%, and that somehow used just 20.6kWh.

I'd expect if you, with 466km on the display at 100%, started at 77% and went to 31%, driving continuously without any stops (NOT LOOKING AT THE SINCE LAST CHARGE DISPLAY - use the trip display), would use (466km*(0.77-0.31) * 230Wh/rmi(displayed)/1.6093rkm/rmi) = 30.6kWh. (You used 234/230*30.6kWh = 31.1kWh)

Car doesn't show use while in park, which is considerable if you use the features. 10kWh is entirely reasonable usage for a couple days (or less) with certain features enabled.

Anyway, your battery contains 466km*152Wh/km = 71kWh, of which 68kWh are usable. And you'll see a max of about 67.5kWh on the trip meter if you drive from 100% to 0% in one continuous journey without stopping.

So i used 46% for 120km which is just really poor or not?

If that occurred in about 1 hour that would be really poor. But I suspect it took longer.
 

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