I have 8810 miles driven so far. That seems like a lot of degradation for so few miles and such a short time of ownership…
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Not really excessive at all for these packs at that mileage. Quite normal.
You can always try some of the things suggested. As I said, it is entirely possible it’s as high as 73kWh or so in reality. Just need to get the BMS to understand the pack a little better - but its estimate is still very likely in the ballpark. You’ve almost certainly lost at least 5% at this point.
I am new to this forum but I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions. As I understand it, my 2019 Model 3 standard range plus is rated for 263 miles. (I understand this is an estimate). This past weekend I drove from Knoxville to Crossville, TN (66 miles one way based on Tesla Navigation). I charged the car to 100% at home, drove the speed limit to Crossville and back. When I got home, I had 35 miles remaining. Doing the math, I would only get 167 of range. This is 100 miles less than expected. Any idea why this is so far from the rating.
For one thing, the EPA range is not based on "the speed limit" whatever that is, where you were going. It also does not take into account terrain, weather, any other usage of electricity in the vehicle (like air conditioning or heat) etc. You also dont mention if you had sentry mode on, when you arrived in crossville TN at your location.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
That's incorrect. It's rated for 240 miles (though this detail is actually not very important for this discussion - 263 2021 SR+ miles is only slightly different than 240 2019 SR+ rated miles - just 1kWh or so, about 2%, not 9.5%). That's with a 52.5kWh battery when new (that 52.5kWh includes the 4.5% capacity buffer below 0 displayed miles). Your car is now probably at least two years old, and you did not give your mileage, but it's reasonable to assume you've lost 10-15% of your capacity and it's now below 216 rated miles at a full charge.
How many rated miles was that? This is really important because it is a very accurate gauge of your actual energy available! (Multiply by 52.5kWh/240rmi = 219Wh/rmi to give you your pack capacity estimate - INCLUDING the buffer.). If it's 200 miles or something, that would be just 43.7kW and 17% capacity loss.
If we go with the (optimistic) 216 rated miles assumption, that means you have 216rmi*219Wh/rmi*0.955 = 45.2kWh between 100% and 0%. (47.3kWh including the 2.1kWh buffer)
You covered 132miles. You ended with 35 rated miles remaining, which is 35rmi*219Wh/rmi*0.955 = 7.3kWh (not including the 4.5% buffer below 0).
So you used at most: (45.2kWh-7.3kWh)/132mi = 287Wh/mi. (This would be indicated as 0.99*287Wh/mi = 284Wh/mi because the meter reads slightly low.)
This is not that unreasonable at freeway speed, though it is definitely high for an SR+. However, remember the potential errors:
1) You need to tell us your full pack capacity (miles at 100%).
2) You might have lost a substantial number of miles while in park at your destination with Cabin Overheat protection (with A/C), etc.
3) Ideally you'd tell us what the trip meter said you got when you returned to your starting point, for "Since Last Charge" efficiency. (This would not include how much energy you lost while in park, but it would allow us to estimate it.)
Last edited:
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Can you elaborate on the numbers a bit?
Really just need to know your range projected to 100%.
Hi everyone, I'm new here.
I have a 2019 Model 3 SR+ where the original rated range is 240 miles. I just got the Stats for S/X/3/Y app a few days ago and my rated range is hovering anywhere between 218-225 miles. My current odometer is at 8300. Is 6.25%-9.16% degradation normal after two years?
I have a 2019 Model 3 SR+ where the original rated range is 240 miles. I just got the Stats for S/X/3/Y app a few days ago and my rated range is hovering anywhere between 218-225 miles. My current odometer is at 8300. Is 6.25%-9.16% degradation normal after two years?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yes, you are doing extremely well, with lower loss than most! Congrats on a great result.
Thanks for the confirmation. Do SR+ degrade more than LR? A lot of posts I see seem to indicate a 5-7% degradation with many more miles driven, but they're mostly mentioning the LR in this context.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah they seemed to which of course could be expected because of a higher cycle count for a given mileage. They also generally started with nearly zero “hidden” buffer (52.5kWh seemed common, with degradation threshold of 52.5kWh, vs 78-78.5kWh with a threshold of 77.8kWh - or even 76kWh for 2018/2019 vehicles!). Not talking about the buffer below 0% here and it’s also not above 100%. It’s rated miles with expanded energy content, as discussed elsewhere, which “hide” initial capacity loss to an extent - that extent being how much above the degradation threshold the vehicle starts. For 2018/2019 LR that’s an addition 2+% of capacity loss which is just hidden from view, if you are using rated-mile capacity-loss calculations.
But the main thing which is great for you is that your vehicle is so old and still has good range. Calendar aging is a big deal and it is good to get the initial drop out of the way.
There were multiple reports here of people with 200-210 rated miles after 4-6 months of 2019 SR+ ownership. So you avoided losing that lottery.
Last edited:
Charge the car to 100% last night and the total miles are 214. I have 20k miles on the car.
Forgot to elaborate on the numbers. I followed this formula 197rmi*191Wh/rmi*0.80 = 47.03375kWh
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Sorry, was missing the context on those numbers. Now I understand.
So you have 10.5% capacity loss as we'd expect, and the assumptions above I made are pretty close. You did about 280Wh/mi (including any energy lost in park at your destination - again, Cabin Overheat Protection would be the big driver here).
That seems high but reasonable assuming you used maybe 10-15 rated miles during the day keeping the car cool (quite possible if the AC was on).
If you had the trip meter data and knew how many miles you lost in park then the picture could be complete.
Thanks for all the info. This has been very helpful. I love the car, just want to make sure I am getting the most out of it.
We are currently on the road for vacation and my car bsttery degradation seems unbelievable. After charging at a supercharger the battery will drop 12 -15 miles after 3 miles of driving. Last night my battery was at 268 miles when I parked then this morning it was at 238, a loss of 30 miles over night! AC is off, sentry mode off, etc. Just sitting loss of 30 miles! What?! Since my purchase in fall of 18 battery has gone from 310 to 270 on max chg. This is nuts. Any recommendations
The only reason a car would lose 30 miles overnight is because its not sleeping, so you need to start there (which is a COMPLETELY different topic than "max charge on my car has gone from 310 to 270).
The usual reason a car wont sleep is because something is interacting with it, causing it not to sleep. Things that can keep the car awake that you should check:
- Sentry mode (you mention you checked this)
- Camp mode
- Keep climate on (it sounds like you checked this)
- if you have EVER used ANY third party app that interacts with the car, AT ANY TIME, you need to investigate that app to make sure its configured properly. Even if you stopped using it. Even if "it always worked before". Even if "I know its working properly". check it again, and consider changing your tesla password to ensure the app doesnt have an active access token, then seeing if the overnight drain goes away.
- Opening the tesla app to "check on the car"
Look through that stuff. 30 miles range loss overnight is a VERY clear sign the car is not sleeping, but you need to figure out why.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
@jjrandorin answered the more pertinent question. But this is about 15% capacity loss relative to the best Model 3 of that vintage (which started at about 318 rated miles, which displayed as 310). 15% is on the high side, but definitely normal (meaning better than about the 1st percentile of results; it’s not an outlier).
I contacted my Tesla service centre about this issue. I'm thoroughly confused. This is what they replied:
"To confirm you have no battery degradation what so ever, I have had my Technician pulling logs on your battery health which is at 100%. The CAC, which is the calculation of potential amperage per hour. Is 3.5% higher than average indicating your battery is in great condition.
The 265 figures will be rated range. What is the potential of the battery at 100%, perfect conditions and temperature.
The car will actually display typical range, which takes in to account the ambient temperature, driving styles, charge and consumer rates. So not getting 265 is not a fault and to confirm is not an indication of degradation."
"To confirm you have no battery degradation what so ever, I have had my Technician pulling logs on your battery health which is at 100%. The CAC, which is the calculation of potential amperage per hour. Is 3.5% higher than average indicating your battery is in great condition.
The 265 figures will be rated range. What is the potential of the battery at 100%, perfect conditions and temperature.
The car will actually display typical range, which takes in to account the ambient temperature, driving styles, charge and consumer rates. So not getting 265 is not a fault and to confirm is not an indication of degradation."
Similar threads
