Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[AlanSubie4Life]

Is 3.5% higher than average indicating your battery is in great condition.

Probably true if they are referring to fleet average, rather than an average for your vehicle’s age and mileage. Average seems to be around 9% I guess from that statement, if yours was at 6% (not clear exactly what it was when they checked). I’d say that aligns fairly well with what is observed here, though maybe 7-8% is more typical.

See above for assessment of your capacity loss.

The car will actually display typical range, which takes in to account the ambient temperature, driving styles, charge and consumer rates. So not getting 265 is not a fault and to confirm is not an indication of degradation."

This is the standard untrue statement from Tesla. Would not worry about it. It’s simply false. (Also I have no idea what some of it means.) It’s displaying the BMS best estimate of capacity. No more, no less.

Anyway, assuming you’re at 247 at 100% that would be 6%, give or take a couple %.

 

[JustAHandle]

Location: Vancouver BC
Model: mid/late 2019 model 3 SR+

Suspected high range lost so I installed scan my Tesla to find some details, and the numbers are shocking if I understood them correctly.

See screenshot shot below and let me know what you think.

Tldr; more than 10% range lost with less than 30 thousands km.

Thanks for reading and happy to share/discuss more.

 

[jdcollins5]

When was the last time you did a 20-100% charge? If you typically charge between like 50-80%, the BMS will develop a memory for this range. If you charge over a wider range, BMS will recalibrate for the wider range.

 

[TM3CA]

Probably already addressed here or elsewhere but I also have a question about range.

I have a 10/2018 build M3 LR RWD. Have been charging to 90% since day one. (Have 30K miles) Maybe to 100% a handful of times for long trips. SOC indicates 258 miles @ 90% charge.
Is this considered low? Is this normal? Is it inaccurate or should/can it be “reset”?

Typically driven fairly conservatively, mixed freeway/streets, with A/C due to hot SoCal weather.

Please advise. Thanks in advance!

 

[jdcollins5]

Probably already addressed here or elsewhere but I also have a question about range.

I have a 10/2018 build M3 LR RWD. Have been charging to 90% since day one. (Have 30K miles) Maybe to 100% a handful of times for long trips. SOC indicates 258 miles @ 90% charge.
Is this considered low? Is this normal? Is it inaccurate or should/can it be “reset”?

Typically driven fairly conservatively, mixed freeway/streets, with A/C due to hot SoCal weather.

Please advise. Thanks in advance!

258 miles / 0.9 = 287 miles at 100%. When was the last time you charged from 20-100%? This will help recalibrate the BMS.

I have a similar 8/2018 M3 LR RWD at 30k miles. I am getting about 264 miles at 90% which extrapolates to 294 miles at 100%. So we are fairly close.

I have not charged from 20-100% in a few months now. When I do the range will typically drift up to about 297-300 miles as the BMS recalibrates.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

and the numbers are shocking if I understood them correctly.

They should not be shocking, and you could have predicted this before connecting SMT, since your range at 100% charge was about 216 miles (vs. 240 when the vehicle was new).

This is also a normal result. Nothing unusual about it at 30k km.

SOC indicates 258 miles @ 90% charge.
Is this considered low? Is this normal? Is it inaccurate or should/can it be “reset”?

No, this is normal. It is not low. You have about 10% capacity loss (not from 310 miles - I mean from ~78kWh).

Depends on what you mean for a reset. It’s always an estimate so it could be off by 1-2%. But I wouldn’t expect much more than about 290 miles if you charge to 100%.

The BMS is doing its job and letting you know your battery has lost 10% of its capacity.

I have essentially the same result as you with 29k miles and nearly three years old. It has barely budged for the past year, with plenty of deep discharges as well as many shallow cycles. Max I saw at 100% recently is 288 miles (unusually high) and my projections are always to 284-287 miles.
I’m waiting for the next big jump down, haha (it has always come in sudden jumps).

If you charge over a wider range, BMS will recalibrate for the wider range.

This will help recalibrate the BMS.

While to some extent there is some small truth to this, it usually results in a change of 1-2% at most. (There are of course rare exceptions.)

So I am not sure we should be getting people’s hopes up. Especially for the 90% case.

 

[jdcollins5]

They should not be shocking, and you could have predicted this before connecting SMT, since your range at 100% charge was about 216 miles (vs. 240 when the vehicle was new).

This is also a normal result. Nothing unusual about it at 30k km.


No, this is normal. It is not low. You have about 10% capacity loss (not from 310 miles - I mean from ~78kWh).

Depends on what you mean for a reset. It’s always an estimate so it could be off by 1-2%. But I wouldn’t expect much more than about 290 miles if you charge to 100%.

The BMS is doing its job and letting you know your battery has lost 10% of its capacity.

I have essentially the same result as you with 29k miles and nearly three years old. It has barely budged for the past year, with plenty of deep discharges as well as many shallow cycles. Max I saw at 100% recently is 288 miles (unusually high) and my projections are always to 284-287 miles.
I’m waiting for the next big jump down, haha (it has always come in sudden jumps).




While to some extent there is some small truth to this, it usually results in a change of 1-2% at most. (There are of course rare exceptions.)

So I am not sure we should be getting people’s hopes up. Especially for the 90% case.

I am only sharing my personal experience. Not meaning to give anyone any false hope.

 

[rbbos88]

I would try to re-balance the BMS by driving to under 10% and going to a Supercharger and charging it to 100% until it stops and says 'Charging Complete'. It might take about 1.5 hours to do this though. Or you can do this at home if you can charge at home. Don't just stop when it get to 100%, let it naturally stop.

You'll notice that the car will charge to 100% but still be charging because the BMS is not really knowing the exact charge level of the battery. It will probably stay at 100% but continue to charge (really slow) for about half an hour.

You might have to do this a few times but don't need to do this too often. A few times a year maybe?

I think Frugal Tesla Guy channel tried this battery recalibration method and debunked it (he did it multiple times over several weeks), from around 10% to 100% and letting it sit for a few hours at each end. He found almost no difference in rated range…?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think Frugal Tesla Guy channel tried this battery recalibration method and debunked it (he did it multiple times over several weeks), from around 10% to 100% and letting it sit for a few hours at each end. He found almost no difference in rated range…?

There are some rare situations where it can help. Generally for a battery showing the inexorable typical range loss it doesn’t change much though, seems like 1-2% perhaps at most, from what I have seen here. In the end it depends on whether the issue is that the BMS has a bad estimate. If the BMS estimate is correct, then the procedure will do very little.

As far as I can tell, the estimate is usually really good (within a couple percent of correct), no matter what SoC range you use daily, but there are charging patterns which are more challenging for the BMS.

 

[30seconds]

2018 LR AWD with ~35k miles. Fully charged for a trip I get 280miles.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

2018 LR AWD with ~35k miles. Fully charged for a trip I get 280miles.

Doing well! Only 12% loss.

 

[WhiteWi]

As long as our car can do 200 miles of driving I could care less.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

As long as our car can do 200 miles of driving I could care less.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with, but I agree. I have no problem doing 2600-mile trips which end up being done at a high average speed, similar (but slower than) to the same trip in an ICE, with a battery that is down 10%.

It’s just not a problem for most segments - there are of course exceptions where every bit of energy might be needed.

 

[Candleflame]

Not sure what you are disagreeing with, but I agree. I have no problem doing 2600-mile trips which end up being done at a high average speed, similar (but slower than) to the same trip in an ICE, with a battery that is down 10%.

It’s just not a problem for most segments - there are of course exceptions where every bit of energy might be needed.

I somewhat agree. It is not a problem as long as you can cover the 200 miles between i.e. superchargers. The issue is that at higher traveling speeds which are more common in Europe the car struggles to make that.
I think the newer cars do somewhat solve this. when you get 560km rated range even with 15% degradation you still have 475km range. So thats around 350km at 150km/h (which outside of Germany is hardly sustainable for long). Really not bad at all.

 

[atif02]

Hello -
I am new to the Forum and a new owner of Tesla M3 LR. I have a quick question:
M3 is less < 1 month old. It has 552 miles - My concern is with battery depleting faster than I think it should -

I charge the M3 to 317 miles (about 91%) -
No AC going on full speed set @ 70 deg / Auto option turn on while I am driving - very much default setting within the car
I drove M3 3.4 miles from my home to home depot - (No fast acceleration or anything - just normal driving, stopping at a couple of lights and such). When I arrive @ home depot - I notice the battery indicating estimate miles showing around 300 mils...

So I start watching very closely - battery draining very fast, on normal usage - I am talking about 13-20mile distance round trip.
Dropping my kids off and pick them from school. In the morning, when I leave the house in the car, it is 91% charged (317 Miles) - when I come home dropping them off, the battery shows 285 miles; basically, the battery used 23%, for a 16miles trip (roundtrip) - which is high for EV for that short trip.

Can somebody please help me to understand this...?

 

[Candleflame]

Hello -
I am new to the Forum and a new owner of Tesla M3 LR. I have a quick question:
M3 is less < 1 month old. It has 552 miles - My concern is with battery depleting faster than I think it should -

I charge the M3 to 317 miles (about 91%) -
No AC going on full speed set @ 70 deg / Auto option turn on while I am driving - very much default setting within the car
I drove M3 3.4 miles from my home to home depot - (No fast acceleration or anything - just normal driving, stopping at a couple of lights and such). When I arrive @ home depot - I notice the battery indicating estimate miles showing around 300 mils...

So I start watching very closely - battery draining very fast, on normal usage - I am talking about 13-20mile distance round trip.
Dropping my kids off and pick them from school. In the morning, when I leave the house in the car, it is 91% charged (317 Miles) - when I come home dropping them off, the battery shows 285 miles; basically, the battery used 23%, for a 16miles trip (roundtrip) - which is high for EV for that short trip.

Can somebody please help me to understand this...?

Rated range is unit of energy not range remaining. Its linked to how far you can go only on a very basic level. How far you can drive is in the energy view....

 

[FlankenBerry]

In my current living arrangements I can’t charge at home (apartment) but my commute is less than 10 miles a day total. Does it do any undue harm to battery to not charge it daily.

There’s a dealership about .25 miles away that I used to work and that allows me to leave it to charge when I need to. (Level 2 about 25 miles an hour charging rate for free)

Should I get a more regular schedule than once maybe twice a week with any other extracurricular driving? Occasionally the supercharger? (I just don’t want to rely on the super charger for obv reasons).

Essentially I just don’t want to hurt the long term health of my Tesla by say letting them car go to about 50% before leaving it there to charge on level 2 for 3-5 hours etc.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Having read a lot about SOC, DOD, and BMS, I am curious about what is proper so to speak. I typically drive around 70 miles each day round trip for work. I will have a HPWC installed at home and also have L2 chargers at work available for free. Based on my routine driving schedule it appears my SOC will not see the bottom 50% very often at all so I’m curious if that is a “problem.”

1. Is it necessary to vary the SOC? Meaning charge to 80% one day, 90% another day, and 70% another day and repeat cycle so the battery can “see“ different levels?
2. Is it necessary to get the SOC beneath 50% sometimes? Meaning don’t charge every day but maybe every other day or something like that.

I know most of you will say “you’re overthinking this“ but I appreciate the technical aspect and real data points and not the simpleton ”just don’t worry about it“ answer.

 

[Sophias_dad]

In my current living arrangements I can’t charge at home (apartment) but my commute is less than 10 miles a day total. Does it do any undue harm to battery to not charge it daily.

There’s a dealership about .25 miles away that I used to work and that allows me to leave it to charge when I need to. (Level 2 about 25 miles an hour charging rate for free)

Should I get a more regular schedule than once maybe twice a week with any other extracurricular driving? Occasionally the supercharger? (I just don’t want to rely on the super charger for obv reasons).

Essentially I just don’t want to hurt the long term health of my Tesla by say letting them car go to about 50% before leaving it there to charge on level 2 for 3-5 hours etc.

Its fine, don't worry about it. Plenty of folks don't charge daily.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Having read a lot about SOC, DOD, and BMS, I am curious about what is proper so to speak. I typically drive around 70 miles each day round trip for work. I will have a HPWC installed at home and also have L2 chargers at work available for free. Based on my routine driving schedule it appears my SOC will not see the bottom 50% very often at all so I’m curious if that is a “problem.”

1. Is it necessary to vary the SOC? Meaning charge to 80% one day, 90% another day, and 70% another day and repeat cycle so the battery can “see“ different levels?
2. Is it necessary to get the SOC beneath 50% sometimes? Meaning don’t charge every day but maybe every other day or something like that.

I know most of you will say “you’re overthinking this“ but I appreciate the technical aspect and real data points and not the simpleton ”just don’t worry about it“ answer.

Why wouldn't it see the bottom 50%? Just skip a day of charging, and boom, bottom 50%! You are welcome!

and you are overthinking this, and there are WAY too many variables.

As a datapoint, I had a 70 mile roundtrip commute for the first 20 months of 3 ownership. I'd charge every few days at work, sometimes one, sometimes two, occasionally three, depending on how busy the free chargers were. Pretty much always charged to 90%. I had an HPWC at home and almost never used it. Still don't, but that's because I haven't commuted to work in person since Covid. At this point, I charge once or maybe twice per week. I try to let it get down to 10-20% every now and again, but its pretty hard. Stacy's Mom is sitting out in the garage right now with 127 miles(44%) remaining(aka 289 miles at 100%), not plugged in.

Look at this thread for some more information... How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity