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MASTER THREAD: Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

dmurphy

Buster: 11/25/14 - 6/20/21. So sorely missed.
Dec 7, 2018
3,630
4,852
New Jersey - Morris County
I have lost 6 miles since I posted that, somewhere around 15.5k miles or so, and around some update or other I got. Mid october it dropped from 279 to 279 in one day, then went back up to 272 where it now sits with 16.4k miles on the odo.

I havent changed anything (90% set and forget, basically). Note, I am not complaining in the slightest, just giving the data point that I "lost" 7 miles. I dont know if I have or not, it doesnt effect my usage of the car in the slightest, and doesnt bother me in the slightest.

You mean you didn't immediately run out and buy a dyno and wind tunnel so we can test in controlled conditions? For shame ..
.
 

hugh_jassol

Member
Jan 26, 2019
736
795
Los Angeles
Their reply to me was reported range takes into account driving history, temp, etc.

I don't believe it, but that is what they said. Any chance they changed it?

well it says right on Tesla's own support page that it doesn't:

The range displayed is not adapted based on driving pattern or other factors that impact range.

I suppose it's possible that they did change it at some point and didn't update the support page yet, but they are so clear and adamant about it there, I doubt they would "miss" updating that page.
 

diamond.g

Active Member
Nov 5, 2015
2,421
1,362
Moyock, NC
I would recommend switching to % and just not worrying about it.

E70B123F-6C17-4C66-A014-5AD78D137C7E.jpeg
 
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VQTRVA

Member
Mar 13, 2019
453
478
CVA
Yeah they said to keep charging to 90% and that it would take a month or two for things to stable out. That drives me insane. I'll change up when I charge, but will just keep it at 90% I guess. I wish they would put some time into this to see if there was anything they could do to make this a better experience for people.

I refueled my GTI last weekend & only got 299 miles range.

This is down from 318 miles only 2 weeks earlier.
I just recalled that it's been up & down for well over 4 years now after reading this thread.

Should I be worried?
Should I make a service dealer appointment & hang out @ the dealer all day waiting for a diagnostic?
 
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duanra

Active Member
Dec 14, 2018
1,261
726
Montreal
well it says right on Tesla's own support page that it doesn't:



I suppose it's possible that they did change it at some point and didn't update the support page yet, but they are so clear and adamant about it there, I doubt they would "miss" updating that page.

There are 2 things in the support pages.
First :
The estimated range depends heavily on factors such as driving habits, elevation changes and weather conditions. To maximize efficiency, it is important to know the factors that impact range and the recommended ways to reduce energy consumption.

And then the statement about displayed estimated range which doesn't vary.

So I suspect the employees mentioned the first statement since it is what comes first in the support pages hence disregarding the difference between the 2.

What i undrrstand :

The estimated range is the 1 given by the energy app, it varies according to driving history temp etc.. the displayed estimated range is the one showing permanently on the screen that depends on the EPA rating only.
 
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VT_EE

Active Member
Apr 22, 2017
2,038
2,469
Maryland
I refueled my GTI last weekend & only got 299 miles range.

This is down from 318 miles only 2 weeks earlier.
I just recalled that it's been up & down for well over 4 years now after reading this thread.

Should I be worried?
Should I make a service dealer appointment & hang out @ the dealer all day waiting for a diagnostic?
Definitely do that. Make sure you record the service visit so we can all have a good laugh at their reaction.
 

dmurphy

Buster: 11/25/14 - 6/20/21. So sorely missed.
Dec 7, 2018
3,630
4,852
New Jersey - Morris County
I refueled my GTI last weekend & only got 299 miles range.

This is down from 318 miles only 2 weeks earlier.
I just recalled that it's been up & down for well over 4 years now after reading this thread.

You make a very good point!

I wonder if this entire thread and the change in Model 3 range is because the various electric companies have changed to winter blend electrons? I just called our power company (JCP&L) and they had no idea what I was talking about. Completely incompetent - they must've worked at a Tesla service center previously.
 

bradbissell

Member
Apr 4, 2016
89
80
Boston
Battery_Health.jpg
Here is the rated range from Stats for my Nov '18 Medium Range. As can be seen, the rated range has been dropping since 9500 miles (approximately end of June). I charge to 80% daily with the occasional increase to 100% to recalibrate or for extended trips. I have supercharged a hand full of times. The battery has never remained at a low or high state of charge for an extended period. Really hoping this isn't real degradation. Based on my data I'm at ~8% after one year.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,604
3,272
Maine
You make a very good point!

I wonder if this entire thread and the change in Model 3 range is because the various electric companies have changed to winter blend electrons? I just called our power company (JCP&L) and they had no idea what I was talking about. Completely incompetent - they must've worked at a Tesla service center previously.
More of my electrons have gone Heisenberg. :(
 
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KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,604
3,272
Maine
View attachment 482104 Here is the rated range from Stats for my Nov '18 Medium Range. As can be seen, the rated range has been dropping since 9500 miles (approximately end of June). I charge to 80% daily with the occasional increase to 100% to recalibrate or for extended trips. I have supercharged a hand full of times. The battery has never remained at a low or high state of charge for an extended period. Really hoping this isn't real degradation. Based on my data I'm at ~8% after one year.
Looks like seasonal BMS drift to me. The first is from @hcdavis3 who is from S of Boston, and mine is the bottom one. The more temperature variation, the more drift.
Screenshot 2019-11-22 15.05.39.jpg
 
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neorobo

Member
Nov 10, 2019
46
48
Pasadena, CA
I’m taking delivery soon, live at an apartment for now with no charging, but will live next to a 72 kW supercharger station in Pasadena and have charging at work (although it’s super difficult to get access to unless I change my schedule to work much earlier). I also go to Burbank every weekend so could supercharge there, but at a higher wattage than the Pasadena destination chargers.

My round trip commute is 12 miles/day. Not sure what I should do...super charge to 50-60% on the weekends? Should I prioritize lower wattage super chargers?
 

akirtes

Member
Jan 5, 2019
5
2
Cary
My one year old Model 3 was bought with a range of 260 miles. After a 100% charge, the display would show a remaining range of 260 miles when the car was new.

Now, after a 100% charge, it only shows 245 miles. Has my battery degraded already? Or has it learned my driving habits and converts kWh to miles differently than before?
 

woodguyatl

Member
Oct 3, 2018
446
359
GA
My one year old Model 3 was bought with a range of 260 miles. After a 100% charge, the display would show a remaining range of 260 miles when the car was new.

Now, after a 100% charge, it only shows 245 miles. Has my battery degraded already? Or has it learned my driving habits and converts kWh to miles differently than before?

It has not learned your driving habits.

Yes, your battery has degraded.

It has not likely degraded that much.

Search the forum and the sticky thread to get more details.
 

azred

Active Member
Apr 12, 2016
1,900
2,198
Chandler, AZ
My two year old LR with 22k miles gets about 300 and most of that degradation occurred in first year. (It’s kind of hard to judge degradation since rated miles were bumped from 310? to 325 about a year after purchase.) My three year old 75 S with 25k gets about 230 versus about 249 rated when new and most of that degradation was also in first year. Obviously buying the most range you can afford seems like a good idea, probably a better buy than autopilot or interior upgrades. But at least degradation seems to really slow after about a year.
 

hugh_jassol

Member
Jan 26, 2019
736
795
Los Angeles
My one year old Model 3 was bought with a range of 260 miles. After a 100% charge, the display would show a remaining range of 260 miles when the car was new.

Now, after a 100% charge, it only shows 245 miles. Has my battery degraded already? Or has it learned my driving habits and converts kWh to miles differently than before?
FWIW, I have same car, purchased in Jan.... I am also at about 245 mi at 100%. Here's the estimated range at 100% over the lifetime of the car (minus the first two weeks, before I started collecting the data):
FusionCharts.png

The first drop at 4.8k miles was both at the 6 month ownership mark and when I updated from 2019.20.4.2 to 2019.24.4, not saying that had anything to do with it, but some internet theories are that Tesla is changing the BMS software somehow.
 

morepizza

Member
Sep 13, 2018
37
25
Colorado
LR RWD; 40xxx VIN; 7/18 door date; ~14K mi showing approx 8% degradation (worse than my Gen 1 Leaf). Sudden rapid degradation in the last 500 miles, no significant correlation to SW versions.

BatDeg1.png
Battery has been babied. No supercharges (ever); 48A HPWC daily charge to 80% for most commuting days (55mi round-trip). Average SoC between 80% and 50%.


BatDeg2.png
 
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PearlShark

Member
Oct 13, 2017
142
66
Canada
LR RWD; 40xxx VIN; 7/18 door date; ~14K mi showing approx 8% degradation (worse than my Gen 1 Leaf). Sudden rapid degradation in the last 500 miles, no significant correlation to SW versions.

View attachment 482585 Battery has been babied. No supercharges (ever); 48A HPWC daily charge to 80% for most commuting days (55mi round-trip). Average SoC between 80% and 50%.


View attachment 482590

Same car, 5/18 build. 10% degradation for me.

Babied the car as well.
Both our cars fall under the date range for the service bulletin related to missing connections in the battery resulting in missing battery capacity.
My VIN didn’t fall under the listed VINs so I’m not getting anywhere with Service.

I’m convinced something is not right as I’ve always had significantly less displayed range than advertised. Don’t have any data logging apps unfortunately.

I keep getting told that the displayed range is dependant on driving habits and weather. This does not align with what Tesla’s own website says. Tesla website says that it is based on battery status (voltage/current) information and the EPA rated efficiency constant.

It also does not follow weather trends or driving styles at all. The displayed range is consistent regardless of either of those factors. Unaffected by the drastic changes in Canadian weather. And unaffected by significant changes in my lifetime efficiency number.

The only way Tesla will be able to identify the issue is by owners showing them the issue and then it getting investigated based on logged data. I assume this is likely how they would have figured out the issue with missed connections in the first place. The problem may be covering an additional battery assembly line than they initially thought during that period.

If there is a way for a few of us with similar conditions could group our information together to bring it to Tesla’s attention, that may help resolve the problem.

10% missing on a new car is unacceptable.
 

Nelson

Member
Oct 28, 2016
51
26
New Jersey
Same car, 5/18 build. 10% degradation for me.

Babied the car as well.
Both our cars fall under the date range for the service bulletin related to missing connections in the battery resulting in missing battery capacity.
My VIN didn’t fall under the listed VINs so I’m not getting anywhere with Service.

I’m convinced something is not right as I’ve always had significantly less displayed range than advertised. Don’t have any data logging apps unfortunately.

I keep getting told that the displayed range is dependant on driving habits and weather. This does not align with what Tesla’s own website says. Tesla website says that it is based on battery status (voltage/current) information and the EPA rated efficiency constant.

It also does not follow weather trends or driving styles at all. The displayed range is consistent regardless of either of those factors. Unaffected by the drastic changes in Canadian weather. And unaffected by significant changes in my lifetime efficiency number.

The only way Tesla will be able to identify the issue is by owners showing them the issue and then it getting investigated based on logged data. I assume this is likely how they would have figured out the issue with missed connections in the first place. The problem may be covering an additional battery assembly line than they initially thought during that period.

If there is a way for a few of us with similar conditions could group our information together to bring it to Tesla’s attention, that may help resolve the problem.

10% missing on a new car is unacceptable.

Count me in - 8/18 build LR AWD, I am at 11% degradation, max charge is 275 now, 90% at 248.
 

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