Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

MASTER THREAD: Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
Am I missing something? It was the advertised range for P3D+. You can even check the old web page (wayback machine)

You then said it yourself, 310 mi in the last paragraph.

That was the 2018 and 2019 models. For the 2020 model (yours was December 2019 so it definitely was a 2020), the advertised range was 299/304/322.

2018/2019 had 76kWh at 310 rated miles before degradation showed.

2020 had 77.6kWh at 299rmi(20") before degradation showed. (Or 304rmi or 322rmi, depending on which wheels you select, it doesn't make any difference though, that's all the same amount of energy & range assuming you have the same wheels on.)

Now, if they did something different in Canada, maybe there's an error here, but the fact that changing the wheel selection changes your range means that I think it's the same as the US. Easy to tell from an appropriate picture of the energy screen in any case.

Think about the energy you have remaining, not the miles, it is less confusing (though equivalent).

Screen Shot 2020-12-16 at 5.07.00 PM.png
 
Last edited:

iKhalid

Member
Feb 18, 2014
775
92
Ottawa, ON
That was the 2018 and 2019 models. For the 2020 model (yours was December 2019 so it definitely was a 2020), the advertised range was 299/304/322.

2018/2019 had 76kWh at 310 rated miles before degradation showed.

2020 had 77.6kWh at 299rmi(20") before degradation showed. (Or 304rmi or 322rmi, depending on which wheels you select, it doesn't make any difference though, that's all the same amount of energy & range assuming you have the same wheels on.)

Now, if they did something different in Canada, maybe there's an error here, but the fact that changing the wheel selection changes your range means that I think it's the same as the US. Easy to tell from an appropriate picture of the energy screen in any case.

Think about the energy you have remaining, not the miles, it is less confusing (though equivalent).

View attachment 618351

Thanks a lot!

Looks like they never changed it on the Canadian website during that time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlanSubie4Life

SeanSethi81

Member
Nov 15, 2020
64
31
Vancouver
Hey,

I just picked up my 2021 model 3 sr+ yesterday and am loving it so far. I have some concerns about how fast the battery is draining though. I might be wrong but wanted to know if these numbers sound right?

I picked up the car with 86% battery. Drove about 65km the first day and it was about 68% when I parked for the night in my driveway. Over night it did an update and when I checked in the morning the battery was at 66%

I drove around a bit about 3 kms and also sat in the car for a bit with it on playing around the with the dash settings for about 20 mins. At this point I figured out how to change from % to range lol so I did. I was at about 260kms, but while just sitting in the car the range decreased to 258 kms. I drove home and the range now is about 256kms and have parked for the night.

Yesterday I drove a bit fast, maybe like 100 km/hr just to test the car out but that was only for a couple mins. Otherwise I have been driving at 50-70km/hr with regenerative braking on. Total distance on the car is 69kms.

Assuming the car had like 10 km on it when I picked it up (forgot to check). Means I drove ~60 km do far and the battery was at 86% when I picked it up. So I'm getting like ~380 km on a full charge if you do the math backwards.

Any thoughts? Is the battery draining fast?


(moderator note: moved to master thread)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,660
12,511
California
Normal. Enjoy the new car. Read the mega thread at the top of this forum if you want to learn a bit.

(moderator note: this post / suggestion was made before I moved the quoted post to the master thread. just noting why a suggestion to "look at the master thread" is now IN the master thread).
 

diamond.g

Active Member
Nov 5, 2015
2,421
1,362
Moyock, NC
Can’t guarantee it, but looks like they changed it on your car. The Energy screen would tell you for sure but I’m 95% sure of my numbers if you don’t want to go there.
Folks also may not realize that the 2018 models were all tested with the 18” wheels because the 20’s were an option (that went away) that didn’t have to be tested.
Now Tesla rightfully gives the EPA metrics for the available tire variants.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: AlanSubie4Life

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
Now Tesla rightfully gives the EPA metrics for the available tire variants.

Yep, 2018/2019 numbers were for 18” wheels even if the car came with 20”.

Well, they did give specific results for different Performance models in 2020 anyway. They don’t want to do it for Performance this year because the result would be too awesome (365 rated miles with 18” or so right now). And they probably are not going to sell Stealth this year. Probably have exhausted that market for a while.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
Stealth stealth stealth, potential buyer here, don't discourage them! ;)

You'll just want to make sure that if they at some point DO start selling a Stealth performance and they specify a different range for it on the website, that you review the test documents. They're not allowed to short you the battery if they just slap 18" and remove the fancy brakes, without running a new EPA test (because it would be a minor variant of the Performance which has to have ~81kWh, same as the Performance). But if they did a new test of that vehicle, with a new range, they could populate it with the smaller battery that matches the EPA test results.

I suspect that if they ever do this, they'll just give you the nice battery, though. I am just encouraging you to trust, but verify. Hope the Stealth shows up for you! (And, apropos to this thread, that you have many years of excellent range.)

Of course, at some point, they'll presumably just be building all new vehicles with the denser packs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Trilodroid

rikinva

Member
Feb 26, 2020
13
12
Johnson City, Tennessee
I fear I have an issue with range degradation. My Model 3 is a 2020 (purchased new last Feb.), and it is AWD LR dual motor. So when brand new, car’s rated range was 322. Shortly after purchase, I took a roadtrip with cold temps less than 32°. I charged the car to 319 miles at 100%, which I thought was pretty good. Car now has 6,673 miles on it in 10 months. I charged car to 100% 2 more times for road trip back in Oct. both times car warned me that charging to 100% could damage the battery. I plug in car and charge to 85% every night. But it only shows a rates range of 256 miles. This equates to a range of just 302 if charged to 100%. This is a degradation of more than 6%. Is this normal, or do I have a problem?
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
Is this normal, or do I have a problem?

This is normal. A bit below average for the age and mileage perhaps, but totally within the normal range observed.

Enjoy the car. The rate of loss will probably slow down dramatically over the next year, though likely you’ll continue to see a bit more (my guess is you’ll mostly stop losing range at about at 8-10% loss).
 

Trilodroid

Member
Nov 30, 2020
18
5
USA
You'll just want to make sure that if they at some point DO start selling a Stealth performance and they specify a different range for it on the website, that you review the test documents. They're not allowed to short you the battery if they just slap 18" and remove the fancy brakes, without running a new EPA test (because it would be a minor variant of the Performance which has to have ~81kWh, same as the Performance). But if they did a new test of that vehicle, with a new range, they could populate it with the smaller battery that matches the EPA test results.

I suspect that if they ever do this, they'll just give you the nice battery, though. I am just encouraging you to trust, but verify. Hope the Stealth shows up for you! (And, apropos to this thread, that you have many years of excellent range.)

Of course, at some point, they'll presumably just be building all new vehicles with the denser packs.

Very good point, hadn't thought of that one.
 

Sans-gas

Member
May 1, 2019
119
52
NW WA
Hey,

I just picked up my 2021 model 3 sr+ yesterday and am loving it so far. I have some concerns about how fast the battery is draining though. I might be wrong but wanted to know if these numbers sound right?

I picked up the car with 86% battery. Drove about 65km the first day and it was about 68% when I parked for the night in my driveway. Over night it did an update and when I checked in the morning the battery was at 66%

I drove around a bit about 3 kms and also sat in the car for a bit with it on playing around the with the dash settings for about 20 mins. At this point I figured out how to change from % to range lol so I did. I was at about 260kms, but while just sitting in the car the range decreased to 258 kms. I drove home and the range now is about 256kms and have parked for the night.

Yesterday I drove a bit fast, maybe like 100 km/hr just to test the car out but that was only for a couple mins. Otherwise I have been driving at 50-70km/hr with regenerative braking on. Total distance on the car is 69kms.

Assuming the car had like 10 km on it when I picked it up (forgot to check). Means I drove ~60 km do far and the battery was at 86% when I picked it up. So I'm getting like ~380 km on a full charge if you do the math backwards.

Any thoughts? Is the battery draining fast?


(moderator note: moved to master thread)
Take a deep breath. Your “odometer” goes backwards now instead of forwards.

Now set your car to display %. Plan to charge when your at 20-30%. Charge to 80-90%. This helps keep you battery happy.

Your new car will be at it worst for range over this colder part of the year due, but improve during the warmer season. Your driving style (speed and sudden acceleration) will also alter your range (mileage).

There is a bit of “phantom drain” when the car sits. I sometimes check to make sure my fan isn’t running while it’s parked. Typically it’s minimal.

So now you know what you can alter, you work with what you have. Enjoy your car.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
Any thoughts? Is the battery draining fast?

Nope, it's normal. You're just using up energy. I don't think you have to change to % (it really doesn't matter, tbh, but if you want to know how much actual energy you have available, you have to use miles/km (otherwise you just know what % of your (variable) full energy you have)).

Anyway, data presented to date (and I suspect this will change very slightly in the near future) indicates each displayed rated mile of range in your car has about 204Wh (battery cap calculations should use 214Wh). (Each rated km contains 127Wh (battery capacity calcs should use 133Wh.))

If you for some reason want to know the exact numbers, you can just calculate it from your energy screen (or post it here capturing the three numbers (remaining range, projected range, recent efficiency). But it doesn't really matter - it is what it is.

It's just energy; the display of rated km/miles next to the battery icon has only a very loose correlation with the distance you can travel, or have traveled. Don't think about it as a distance, because it's not.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
So I just charged my 2 day old 2021 model 3 SR+ for the first time and at 100% it is only getting to 409 kms. I thought the max 100% was 423?

Normal. Actually sounds like you have tons of energy, at least 53.5kWh.

Take a picture of the Energy -> consumption screen if you want to know more, and figure out your exact capacity right now (capture: remaining range, recent efficiency, projected range).

Probably they will update the numbers in software at some point but at this point it is just bookkeeping. No more energy, just new numbers and higher “range.”
 

SeanSethi81

Member
Nov 15, 2020
64
31
Vancouver
Normal. Actually sounds like you have tons of energy, at least 53.5kWh.

Take a picture of the Energy -> consumption screen if you want to know more, and figure out your exact capacity right now (capture: remaining range, recent efficiency, projected range).

Probably they will update the numbers in software at some point but at this point it is just bookkeeping. No more energy, just new numbers and higher “range.”


Thanks. I took these screen shots while the car was parked this morning. So Last night the car charged to like 386 kms, but when I went to update some setting and stuff in the morning it was at 377km. Loss of almost 10kms just parked?
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.30 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.30 PM.png
    3.3 MB · Views: 14
  • Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.35 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.35 PM.png
    3.5 MB · Views: 12
  • Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.51 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.51 PM.png
    3.4 MB · Views: 13
  • Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.23 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.23 PM.png
    3.4 MB · Views: 12
  • Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.06.09 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.06.09 PM.png
    3.9 MB · Views: 12
  • Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.41 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-12-18 at 7.05.41 PM.png
    2.9 MB · Views: 13

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
Thanks. I took these screen shots while the car was parked this morning. So Last night the car charged to like 386 kms, but when I went to update some setting and stuff in the morning it was at 377km. Loss of almost 10kms just parked?

Great! We can work with this info!

Unfortunately you did not capture the rated range in these pictures. You said it was 377rkm so I will work with that, but it is a small source of uncertainty. Always best to get it in the same picture. Please confirm that 377rkm was displayed when you took these pictures. Normally we'd need the %. However, you said yesterday you were at 409rkm at 100% so we'll be able to work with that for capacity, it's actually even better than a %. For others, normally, you need all four numbers taken at the same time to capture everything and make it easy, or just the three numbers if you are charged to 100%:

1) Rated range (next to battery)
2) Projected range (you got this)
3) Recent efficiency (you got this)
4) %. (you need to switch the display mode as mentioned). You didn't get this. (Or charge to 100% for best accuracy.)

(For the Energy screen, just ONE of the AVERAGE modes is all we needed. The instantaneous isn't useful because we can't know the dot location exactly. Three average modes actually does give us a little more information (can tell us which way to bias the estimate).)

Anyway,

Multiplying the AVERAGE data, we get:
10 km: 154Wh/km*318km = 49.0kWh
25 km: 149Wh/km*328km = 48.9kWh
50 km: 152Wh/km*322km = 48.9kWh

So we'll call that 48.9kWh for calculation; that's the rounded average.

Again, assuming 377rkm is correct:

48.9kWh/377rkm = 130Wh/rkm (209Wh/rmi)

That's about the same constant as the 2020 model. So it hasn't been updated (it probably will be at some point).

Using your 409rkm @100% from yesterday:

409rkm*130Wh/rkm = 53.2kWh.


Loss of almost 10kms just parked?

This is normal. This is 130Wh/rkm*10rkm *0.955 = 1.24kWh. The 95.5% is because of the buffer; displayed rated miles contain 4.5% less energy than the constant we calculated above. You probably had the heat on? You'd lose half that sitting in the car for 10-15 minutes in an initially cold car.

If you don't want the car to drain energy while you're sitting there you should turn off climate control.

Anyway, your battery looks great! I expect that at some point you'll get a range update to take you to 423rkm. But it won't be more range - the constant will just change and make you have more, smaller, rated kilometers.
 

SeanSethi81

Member
Nov 15, 2020
64
31
Vancouver
Great! We can work with this info!

Unfortunately you did not capture the rated range in these pictures. You said it was 377rkm so I will work with that, but it is a small source of uncertainty. Always best to get it in the same picture. Please confirm that 377rkm was displayed when you took these pictures. Normally we'd need the %. However, you said yesterday you were at 409rkm at 100% so we'll be able to work with that for capacity, it's actually even better than a %. For others, normally, you need all four numbers taken at the same time to capture everything and make it easy, or just the three numbers if you are charged to 100%:

1) Rated range (next to battery)
2) Projected range (you got this)
3) Recent efficiency (you got this)
4) %. (you need to switch the display mode as mentioned). You didn't get this. (Or charge to 100% for best accuracy.)

(For the Energy screen, just ONE of the AVERAGE modes is all we needed. The instantaneous isn't useful because we can't know the dot location exactly. Three average modes actually does give us a little more information (can tell us which way to bias the estimate).)

Anyway,

Multiplying the AVERAGE data, we get:
10 km: 154Wh/km*318km = 49.0kWh
25 km: 149Wh/km*328km = 48.9kWh
50 km: 152Wh/km*322km = 48.9kWh

So we'll call that 48.9kWh for calculation; that's the rounded average.

Again, assuming 377rkm is correct:

48.9kWh/377rkm = 130Wh/rkm (209Wh/rmi)

That's about the same constant as the 2020 model. So it hasn't been updated (it probably will be at some point).

Using your 409rkm @100% from yesterday:

409rkm*130Wh/rkm = 53.2kWh.




This is normal. This is 130Wh/rkm*10rkm *0.955 = 1.24kWh. The 95.5% is because of the buffer; displayed rated miles contain 4.5% less energy than the constant we calculated above. You probably had the heat on? You'd lose half that sitting in the car for 10-15 minutes in an initially cold car.

If you don't want the car to drain energy while you're sitting there you should turn off climate control.

Anyway, your battery looks great! I expect that at some point you'll get a range update to take you to 423rkm. But it won't be more range - the constant will just change and make you have more, smaller, rated kilometers.

Thank you for such a detailed response! Where can I capture the rated range? And I must apologize. I just checked again and these were taken at 373 km not 377 as previously mentioned.

It's good to know that I can turn climate off to save battery. I was actually doing some work on the car (adding in accessories) with the door open for about half an hour so I'm assuming the climate was going nuts trying to maintain the temperature.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,993
12,039
San Diego
Where can I capture the rated range? And I must apologize. I just checked again and these were taken at 373 km not 377 as previously mentioned.

It’s the number next to the battery you are quoting (remaining rated range).

If you can be troubled to take one more picture showing those three numbers simultaneously (remaining rated range next to battery, recent efficiency, projected range), we can get the final number for your car. Rather than a guess.

If we use the 373 rated mile number the constant and your battery capacity go up by 1%. That would make it match prior reports.

211Wh/rmi and 53.8kWh.

This is slightly more energy than the 2020 SR+, I think. So you are good. Now you can follow the tips here to keep it healthy, and most importantly you know where you started. You will lose range. Unpredictable how much. And then it will slow down.
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top