Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[whiskeylover]

New M3LR owner here. Yesterday the temps were around 20℉. My car was at 87% battery. We did a 76 miles round trip, and got back home with 51% battery left. That's 36% of battery usage, and around 211 mile range on a 100% battery. But mine is supposed to be 350+ or something. Is it not? I understand that the cold weather reduces range. But should it be this bad? Am I driving it wrong?

 

[rosinhound]

What was your wh/mi?

 

[whiskeylover]

How do I find that out?
Sorry, I'm new to this.

 

[toshman]

Like... for the Glencairn glass lol.

 

[EVEnergy]

Just throwing out some rough, back of the envelope numbers:

Assume you get a max range of 310 miles at full charge (like my 2019 M3LR). It's winter in MA so your range will degrade some; typical is 20%-30% (let's assume 20%)
That makes a full charge 248 miles (310*80%). You drove 76 miles so that's 76/248 or 31% battery usage
You started at 87%, less the 31% used means you'd wind up around 56%

I'm making a lot of assumptions and if you're driving more uphill, adding weight (passengers, cargo, etc.) then that'll easily explain the 5% difference

 

[KenC]

New M3LR owner here. Yesterday the temps were around 20℉. My car was at 87% battery. We did a 76 miles round trip, and got back home with 51% battery left. That's 36% of battery usage, and around 211 mile range on a 100% battery. But mine is supposed to be 350+ or something. Is it not? I understand that the cold weather reduces range. But should it be this bad? Am I driving it wrong?

One, it was cold, which can knock off 20 to 40%, depending upon hot much cabin heat you were using. Two, how fast were you going? We know highway speeds can kill rated mileage. Three, was there snow on the road? Any rain or snow on the road can raise friction and lower your rated range by 5 to 10%. Four, was it windy? Wind is the unseen factor.

I'm in Maine, and it was not only cold, yesterday, but the wind was strong and there was still snow on the roads. If your 3 was extrapolating to over 200 miles of range, I'd think that's pretty good considering the conditions.

 

[whiskeylover]

One, it was cold, which can knock off 20 to 40%, depending upon hot much cabin heat you were using. Two, how fast were you going? We know highway speeds can kill rated mileage. Three, was there snow on the road? Any rain or snow on the road can raise friction and lower your rated range by 5 to 10%. Four, was it windy? Wind is the unseen factor.

I'm in Maine, and it was not only cold, yesterday, but the wind was strong and there was still snow on the roads. If your 3 was extrapolating to over 200 miles of range, I'd think that's pretty good considering the conditions.

1) We were using cabin heat continuously.
2) parts of the trip were on I90, so we were going around 75. But then mostly 50 or so on Rt 20. And then around 40 the rest of the way.
3) some snow and wind. Highways were clean. But local roads, not so much.

 

[Acalderon87]

Hello all! I’ve recently purchased a used model 3 longe range. It’s a 2018 model. It’s full charge range on the app says 278 full charge range. That’s a almost 11% degradation from new. Should I be concerned?

 

[jjrandorin]

Hello all! I’ve recently purchased a used model 3 longe range. It’s a 2018 model. It’s full charge range on the app says 278 full charge range. That’s a almost 11% degradation from new. Should I be concerned?

No. 11% on a 2018 is good.

 

[Acalderon87]

No. 11% on a 2018 is good.

Ok thank you for your reply!

 

[jjrandorin]

Ok thank you for your reply!

No problem

if you are interested, you can calculate the current capacity of your battery by using information on the cars screen. Information on how to do that can be found in a sticky thread here:

Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen

Re posting here and making this a sticky post so it doesnt get lost. @AlanSubie4Life originally posted: =========================================== (originally posted by @AlanSubie4Life. Original thread this appeared in can be found here: ( 2021 model Y scan my Tesla battery size)...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[AAKEE]

i do kinda agree with this. the range is fine, its the EPA cycle which needs to change. When you buy a 3 series it doesnt use 4L/100km either.
The Model 3 has a lot more degradation than the S for some reason and there is way too much battery lottery.

30% warranty isnt really good enough as many cars wont reach this as degradation slows down but i.e. 20% range loss is very significant....
Anyway I have 16% degradation (435km range currently) after 2 years and <50k km....i am the secondlowest car on teslafi though...

Do we know for sure that there is a significant difference between model S and 3 ?

I know there was some discussions on battery nerd forums about the lager diameter causing less effektive termal control as 21mm is 16% more than 18mm diameter. The chemistry wasnt (officially) changed as I recall it, just the format.
As I use Teslalogger i now and then look at the degradation curves ( teslalogger degradation data , there a possibility to look at many different versions of S, X and 3 and a few datapoints on Y) and from these there do not seem to be a very big difference in degradation. I don know if anyone can see teslafi data for other cars than your own type.

 

[Candleflame]

Do we know for sure that there is a significant difference between model S and 3 ?

I know there was some discussions on battery nerd forums about the lager diameter causing less effektive termal control as 21mm is 16% more than 18mm diameter. The chemistry wasnt (officially) changed as I recall it, just the format.
As I use Teslalogger i now and then look at the degradation curves ( teslalogger degradation data , there a possibility to look at many different versions of S, X and 3 and a few datapoints on Y) and from these there do not seem to be a very big difference in degradation. I don know if anyone can see teslafi data for other cars than your own type.

On the 3 10% degradation after 1-2 years is completely normal on cars with 30-40k kms. Pretty much everyone has this. Average at leveling seems to be consistent with this at 461 km (so around 10%).

The S however seems to have far less degradation. We are talking about people having <5% at 30-40k kms and cars with 300-400k seem to have like 10% and something like i have (16%), is almost unheard off. And my car isnt old. 2 years and 48k kms.

There is defo a theme where the S seems to retain a lot of battery capacity. Something HAS clearly changed with the packs as evident by different supercharging curves/speeds and no throtteling etc for 3s.

 

[Dodofosho]

I'm a new m3lr owner and I'm sure I have some setting wrong somewhere so any help would be appreciated.

I charge my car to 267 miles, I think thats about 80% I drive 25 miles to work but the remaining miles will be down to about 220. I'll precondition the car while its plugged in at home. Its cold out and ill have the temp set to 70° and I have the music turned up but should it really drop that much?

I do have sentry on at work but when I get back to my car it will be down to about 190 miles left which seems like a lot of loss.

Then another 25 miles back home but could be anywhere from 160 to 150 miles left on the battery.

I have noticed that when I get out of work there is always a 60 min clip so I know I have some setting wrong somewhere but it still doesn't make sense to me on how much I'm losing while driving

 

[Tam]

...80%...

Expect more miles loss in winter than in summer so I wouldn't be concerned.

What I would do is to learn how much I need to charge so I won't run out of battery and be left stranded at the end of the day.

If it needs more, then charge more. Don't stop at 80%, charge more, and stop worrying about it.

If you want to lose less, then drive slowly, don't use heater, don't use Sentry Mode,..

If you can afford it, charge up and enjoy your car.

 

[Dodofosho]

Expect more miles loss in winter than in summer so I wouldn't be concerned.

What I would do is to learn how much I need to charge so I won't run out of battery and be left stranded at the end of the day.

If it needs more, then charge more. Don't stop at 80%, charge more, and stop worrying about it.

If you want to lose less, then drive slowly, don't use heater, don't use Sentry Mode,..

If you can afford it, charge up and enjoy your car.

I guess thanks for the advice but did you see that I say I get home and it has 150 miles left? I'm not worried about having enough charge I'm worried about having a new car with a dud battery thats draining too quickly

 

[Tam]

I guess thanks for the advice but did you see that I say I get home and it has 150 miles left? I'm not worried about having enough charge I'm worried about having a new car with a dud battery thats draining too quickly

Yes, I see that. You drove a total of 50 miles for the day and your car used (267-150) 117 miles instead of just 50 miles.

Yes, that is excessive but there's nothing wrong with your battery. It just means your car uses more miles in winter than in summer.

There are ways to just lose 50 miles when you drive 50 miles but it's impractical and it's fun for hypermilers who are willing to freeze themselves in the cold and drive like a turtle, disconnect themselves from remote connections...

 

[AAKEE]

On the 3 10% degradation after 1-2 years is completely normal on cars with 30-40k kms. Pretty much everyone has this. Average at leveling seems to be consistent with this at 461 km (so around 10%).

The S however seems to have far less degradation. We are talking about people having <5% at 30-40k kms and cars with 300-400k seem to have like 10% and something like i have (16%), is almost unheard off. And my car isnt old. 2 years and 48k kms.

There is defo a theme where the S seems to retain a lot of battery capacity. Something HAS clearly changed with the packs as evident by different supercharging curves/speeds and no throtteling etc for 3s.

A brief search in the Model S forum showed me that there is people with high degradation on M S as well
What's your S 75 range at 90%?

Post #122 has 18% on the miles after four years. I dont know the degradstion threshold, but real capacity might show a higher degradation.

Post #8 had 10% after 2 years and a few months

Post #30 11%.

Teslaloggerdo not show a very different slope either so.
Just wondering if the ”Tesla Battery Survey” crested a roumor thats not really correct about Model S degradation?

 

[Candleflame]

its just that its much less heard about with the S than with the 3.

 

[jmaddr]

394 wh/mi is not terrible for the y in winter if your 25 mile commute is 70 mph+. Your average speed across that entire trip is about 60 mph which means you had speeds much higher. Couple that with winter driving and you’ll get to 394wh/mi pretty easily. It doesn’t seem anything is wrong with your battery from your information.

Next commute, set the destination in navigation, and see what the car expects your consumption will be using the energy app in the car. Then, lower your speed to the safest low speed and check out the difference. Vary your speed from normal to safest low speed and you’ll notice a huge difference in efficiency. In the end, you come to learn what to expect from your battery watching the energy graph. Then, with the familiarity the information gives you with knowing your battery is just fine, and you might realize like me and many others to drive normally (fast or slow) and enjoy the car. Bad batteries will only show themselves over time, not just single trips. Invest in a data logger which saves this data over time if you are really interested and into data.