-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
Steve446
Dusty Crophopper, M3 LR 2021 Midnight Silver
I don't have direct experience with these. They appear to be compatible technically. For example the Morec claims compatibility with a M3. Send them a question from the Amazon.fr website - ask them to confirm that it works with a M3. At least then you can send it back if it doesn't work. Maybe somebody else has experience of these?
Low SOC is not dangerous.
My BMS overestimate the capacity( about 80.5-81 kWh capacity with no range loss at all during 16 months and 40.000km/ 24K miles.
I did a try with 0% SOC last summer, it did not change the nominal full pack(or the range), so recently I drove my car down to -2% and after this the BMS recalculated the capacity to 79.5kWh, a value that is close to my calculations.
I would say 0% would be a good value pr as close as you are happy with, 20% is high if you think the BMS is off.
Be sure to let the car sleep at the low SOC.
Sentry mist be off, no app peaking etc.
100% is not dangerous for a shorter while, I do not think you need to let it sleep very long, but a sleep is recomended. 1-2 hours of sleep? (Avoid having it sleeping long if the ambient temperature is very high.)
I would guess the range will come back, maybe not immediatly but after a while.
I think it is a good idea to try to have Sentry off as much as possible after the ”initial BMS calibration” to let the car have many sleeps thus showing the battery capacity/OCV at many different SOCs.
I think you can be a bit patient.
If you have the possibility, try to charge only to 50-55% for a couple of weeks. For me I get a climb(increased range) after about one week with 55%.
If the range still is low you can notice Tesla about it. The probably do not do anything as the warranty degradation level is much lower, but it might not be impossible that they have a check in the system and give you a ”its normal” or ”its not”.
Probably not anything wrong but its not impossible there is some kind of issue.
One thing, in the service menu, what wheels do you have set? If not try setting stock 20” Uberturbine(regardless of which wheels you use). There was a bug with other wheels that took s decent amount of the range and battery capacity as near as a few months back. I think the ”loss” was about 10% of the range with this bug.
Did you loose 10% as well?
First thing to make sute is to use the 20” überturbines in the wheels menu(service or what it is called).
There was a bug discovered by a swedish guy that lost a lot of range and he had changed the wheels in the menu.
Changing back gave him 10% more range.
My 21 M3P did the same, last time i tried it was a couple of months back. Its some kind of bug in the software.
Other from this, a 80-90% charging level will eat a big bite of your battery. In a moderate climate it will degrade the battery about 5-6% during the first year. In a hot climate, it can reach 8-10% or so.
This without even driving the car.
I still read full range (507km) at full charges in my 2021 M3P. 15 months, 40k km/ 24K mi.
I have about 17% Supercharging and about 15+ full charges.
I know that SuC and full charges do not degrade very much per session compared to using a daily high SOC. I use low SOC which causes very little degradation (compared to high SOC, it is actually very little) so I can Supercharge and use 100% for trips and still best most others becuse of the battery conservative charging schedule.
I saw this article on the BBC...
www.bbc.com
and my first thought was...oh no, what is going to happen to AAKEE’s battery 
.....
Climate change: 'We're making wine in Norway'
Vineyards are moving further north, but new winemakers say they struggle to be taken seriously.
www.bbc.com
....."
Did you loose 10% as well?
First thing to make sure is to use the 20” überturbines in the wheels menu."
Uberturbines are correctly registered in wheels menu. I lost more than 15% in less than two weeks without any noticeable changes in charging or driving behavior.
Routine 90% charge level too much for retaining battery health? That's news to me.
Did you loose 10% as well?
First thing to make sure is to use the 20” überturbines in the wheels menu."
Uberturbines are correctly registered in wheels menu. I lost more than 15% in less than two weeks without any noticeable changes in charging or driving behavior.
Routine 90% charge level too much for retaining battery health? That's news to me.
Last edited:
Oki, so it wasnt as easy as the wheels bug then…
You could check this thread out, similar issue maybe but not that much lost:
8% degradation after 9k miles, wtf?
I see only two resaons for the big (appearent) loss of range:
-The BMS is a bit off = perform a BMS Calibration. There is at least one complete thread, just search for it but the simple basics is in the link above and also in this thread. Also, be a bit patient as the BMS recalculation can take time. It probably will not change the judgement in one step overnight.
-The battery ir the BMS has an issue of some kind. You probably need to perform the Bms calibration procedure anyway(or something like this), so the first bullet above should be done first.
For the preserving of the battery:
- 90% isnt “destroying” the battery in that term but it accelerates the degradation.
Hot climate also does, and the combination is a bit worse.
There is no need to take preservative actions for the battery, 90% is fine but it is not the very best SOC if you would like to minimize degradation. It could be noce to know some of the facts about degradation. Knowing a little about how it works might save you from a “chock” later on. Me thinks, as you already are confused about lost range.
You could search for “calendar aging” together with my nick here on TMC, I have written tons about this.
A teaser:
This is calendar aging( = what time does to your battery at different SOCS and temperatures).
Calendar aging reduces with time.
First 10 months according to the picture.
Imagine a varm climate, average battery temp in the middle between the 25 and 50C lines.
80-90% would degrade the battery about 6% in 10 months, thats 7% first year.
Thank you for trying to help.
-The BMS is a bit off = perform a BMS Calibration. There is at least one complete thread, just search for it but the simple basics is in the link above and also in this thread.
That direct link is still dead:
Resource Limit Is Reached
The website is temporarily unable to service your request as it exceeded resource limit. Please try again later.
So I may have to sift through yet another lengthy thread...
-The BMS is a bit off = perform a BMS Calibration. There is at least one complete thread, just search for it but the simple basics is in the link above and also in this thread.
That direct link is still dead:
Resource Limit Is Reached
The website is temporarily unable to service your request as it exceeded resource limit. Please try again later.
So I may have to sift through yet another lengthy thread...
My apologies if this is a "me too" thread, but I'm at a loss. I have hardly supercharged my car (4 long trips total). Other than that, I charge at home with the Tesla wall charger with the limit set to 90% for daily driving. The car is 3 years old with 30k miles. Is this amount of degradation normal? if 310 was the starting range, I have lost 8 percent!! That seems very high for a car with these attributes. Tesla says they have checked the car remotely and find it to be within normal degradation. That makes no sense to me.
Yes. Its quite good for a 3 year old model 3 with 30k miles in fact. If you search through this very large thread on this topic I moved your post to (as yes, it is a commonly discussed topic as this 226 page thread will attest to), you will see that lots of people see up to around 10% in the first year even, then slowing down after that.
8% in 3 years is very good. Good enough that you are likely on the lower side of degradation.
Oh wow. Thank you very much for that summary. I truly appreciate it. I feel a bit better knowing this. In your opinion, is daily charging at 90% a negative thing if I'm only draining down to about 75-80% daily?
First let me give you a short answer to the question, since you asked my opinion. I dont personally think charging to 90% is bad. However......
Since you only use 10-15% daily, you could consider charging to a lower percentage, as long as it meets both your immediate driving need as well as gives you enough in case you had to go somewhere "in a hurry".
Given your usage profile, I might charge to 60-70%, and then use the same 10-15%, and charge daily back to 60-70%.
2019 LR AWD M3
Current Miles: 9x,xxx miles
Life Time Average Watts: 259
I've had plenty of issues with this car, but I may have found an alternate solution.
I have had random battery drains (vampire), low wattage consumption, and not meeting drivable theoretical miles.
Since November 2021, plugging in the car and setting to 90% would read 25X miles while 100% would read 27X miles.
Mathematically, it made no sense. No matter what charging habit I change, it would display the same.
What changed was the distance I would drive. The past three months I was averaging 200+ mile daily commute (Yes, daily).
This meant the car was being drained and then constantly re-charged up 5 to 6 days of the week.
I would be able to drive 220 to 240 miles on a single charge (66 to 70 mph highway) with about 5 - 10 % left in the bank.
Theoretically, this meant my car could push around 270 miles to empty (0%) - with my calculations.
What had now changed was my Battery reading levels. 100% charged would now read 294 to 298 miles.
These 100% readings have been constant for 4 weeks now.
I hope this can provide insight or relief to any of you in this thread on how it help your BMS calibration or "upping" your driving theoretical miles.
EDIT:
Charging Habits
Morning 6 am Full: 100%
Night arrival at home: 5-10%
Next Morning Charging @ 12 am to 100%
Repeat.
I ALWAYS charge to 100% due to distance driving. My speculation is that low drivable miles is linked to your driving habits and BMS is calibrated to that.
Current Miles: 9x,xxx miles
Life Time Average Watts: 259
I've had plenty of issues with this car, but I may have found an alternate solution.
I have had random battery drains (vampire), low wattage consumption, and not meeting drivable theoretical miles.
Since November 2021, plugging in the car and setting to 90% would read 25X miles while 100% would read 27X miles.
Mathematically, it made no sense. No matter what charging habit I change, it would display the same.
What changed was the distance I would drive. The past three months I was averaging 200+ mile daily commute (Yes, daily).
This meant the car was being drained and then constantly re-charged up 5 to 6 days of the week.
I would be able to drive 220 to 240 miles on a single charge (66 to 70 mph highway) with about 5 - 10 % left in the bank.
Theoretically, this meant my car could push around 270 miles to empty (0%) - with my calculations.
What had now changed was my Battery reading levels. 100% charged would now read 294 to 298 miles.
These 100% readings have been constant for 4 weeks now.
I hope this can provide insight or relief to any of you in this thread on how it help your BMS calibration or "upping" your driving theoretical miles.
EDIT:
Charging Habits
Morning 6 am Full: 100%
Night arrival at home: 5-10%
Next Morning Charging @ 12 am to 100%
Repeat.
I ALWAYS charge to 100% due to distance driving. My speculation is that low drivable miles is linked to your driving habits and BMS is calibrated to that.
DeltaOne
Member
Totally secondhand info, but I know of a guy that had a 2 or 3 year old Model 3 and called Tesla saying he wasn't getting the range he expected. They checked his car logs and said he wasn't driving enough. He lived two miles from his office...and had lots and lots of 2 mile trips.
I had the same experience, driving only 1-2 miles a day since COVID. Tesla service even sent a PDF report of their findings.
This thread:
8% degradation after 9k miles, wtf?
Has both the issue, the solution and the happy ending described.
This is the ”original” long thread.
How to perform this is described here as well.
How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity
Yes, this thread, and the users here (AAKEE most prominently) have changed my mind and my behavior. It's news to almost everyone. This forum & thread is literally the only place in popular EV discussion which emphasizes calendar aging as the dominant effect people are see for fairly new cars (< 7 years old), and since EVs are new to the market in large quantities that's what everyone is seeing.
It's respecting science, going deeper into battery research than typical and applying it. The first unexpected fact is that calendar aging (time alone, regardless of battery cycles or use), more than cyclic aging (distance driven and # of recharge sessions) is the most important effect for most drivers at this stage. There are chemical reactions happening on their own. All the noise in the media, and much of it even in the research literature, is about improving cyclic aging. But outside commercial vehicles driven much more often (buses/trucking), the calendar aging will have more of an effect until cars are very old.
Even most battery research papers concentrate on improving cyclic aging more than improving calendar aging at higher state of charge and temperature. Probably because the experiments can be done much faster.
The main point in calendar aging is that higher state of charge and higher temperatures are worse, particularly combined, secondly it slows down with time, estimated to be roughly linear in square root of time since battery manufacture. It's the length of time at those conditions, driving or not, which makes the difference. Set your daily charging limit as low as possible, or delay charging up as long as possible, and keep the battery cool.
Tesla UI shows the 'Daily' limit as between 50% and 90%. It isn't 90% but anywhere in that range. 50% works too.
Steve446
Dusty Crophopper, M3 LR 2021 Midnight Silver
Keeping M3 at a low SoC (30-40-50%) has been discussed as a means of limiting calendar aging when the vehicle is parked/stored unused. What about the Tesla recommendation, a happy Tesla is a plugged in Tesla, during that storage? Does anybody think that makes a difference if the car is stored at low SoC but plugged in?
jackmott
Member
Yes that is normal, the good news is you will tend not to lose another 8% in the next 3 years, it slows down. If you are real worried about it you could drop the daily limit to 70% or 80%
Similar threads
