At 30K miles on my 2019 SR+, I’m still beating rated range on every trip I make. I have a 90 mile round trip for work now. I leave in the morning with about 187 miles range (95% - I charge to 90 when I arrive home, then top it off to 95% just before I leave in the morning), arrive at work with about 145 miles, find it at about 130 when I come out at the end of the day, and arrive home with about 90, losing 10 to 15 miles on AC keeping the cabin below 100 degrees all day while I’m working. If I leave sentry mode on I find it at about 115 miles for the start of my afternoon commute. I watched the energy screen the other day and averaged about 208 Wh/mi with the AC running.
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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
This seems excessive. Your car is rated at 53.5kWh/263rmi = 203Wh/rmi. Or 0.955*203Wh/rmi = 194Wh/rmi displayed or actually about 192Wh/rmi for parity (*0.99 heat loss factor).
So getting 114 displayed miles used on a 60-mile trip implies 114rmi/60mi * 192Wh/rmi = 365Wh/mi on the trip meter. This is too high for an SR+ even at 85mph.
What did you actually get?
This assumes no sitting at the airport using energy which may be incorrect.
So further information is needed.
I’d expect this round trip should use no more than about 95 rated miles in summer conditions.
Your car has ~5.5% capacity loss which is neither here nor there and is perfectly normal and irrelevant to this discussion.
March 2020 delivery with over 51K miles. My AC/DC charge ratio is about 70/30.
My battery degradation hit -17% (estimated range of 267 out of 322 fully charged) and my SOC would fluctuate a few percent here and there throughout the day. I could lose or gain up to 5% just sleeping and even charging to a certain limit can be challenging at times because charging will stop at a set limit of say 90% and after the car goes to sleep and wakes up in a couple hours it'll be at 87% or 92%, etc. Made a service appointment to see if it's an issue. They ran a remote diagnostic and then asked me to bring the car in. This is where it gets interesting.
Upon checking into service, I asked the advisor about what was going on. He said they found an balance issue with the battery and need to hold the car for a day. During that service period I opened the app and noticed they were working on the car but the battery SOC reading had suddenly changed. I had dropped the car off with about 100 miles of est range which was about 37% SOC, but all of a sudden it was showing 91 at 28%. When I picked up the car the next day and asked about their diagnostics, the advisor looked up some notes and had a chat with the tech. I was told the HV battery test came out within spec and they had reset the cycle count so the car sees it is a new battery, which would allow the BMS to recalibrate its readings over time. It's been driven 161 miles over 3 days now and battery readings have stabilized at 313 est miles at 100%.
I went from being the one person setting the maximum battery degradation trend line on TeslaFi to being the one setting the minimum degradation line overnight. There's no way this can be true and I expect it to drop to a more realistic estimate, but how did service center do this? Has anyone heard of service implementing such a "fix"? My concern now is that it'll show I have 60 miles of range left and the car dying in the middle of the road, unless they secretly replaced my battery pack.
My battery degradation hit -17% (estimated range of 267 out of 322 fully charged) and my SOC would fluctuate a few percent here and there throughout the day. I could lose or gain up to 5% just sleeping and even charging to a certain limit can be challenging at times because charging will stop at a set limit of say 90% and after the car goes to sleep and wakes up in a couple hours it'll be at 87% or 92%, etc. Made a service appointment to see if it's an issue. They ran a remote diagnostic and then asked me to bring the car in. This is where it gets interesting.
Upon checking into service, I asked the advisor about what was going on. He said they found an balance issue with the battery and need to hold the car for a day. During that service period I opened the app and noticed they were working on the car but the battery SOC reading had suddenly changed. I had dropped the car off with about 100 miles of est range which was about 37% SOC, but all of a sudden it was showing 91 at 28%. When I picked up the car the next day and asked about their diagnostics, the advisor looked up some notes and had a chat with the tech. I was told the HV battery test came out within spec and they had reset the cycle count so the car sees it is a new battery, which would allow the BMS to recalibrate its readings over time. It's been driven 161 miles over 3 days now and battery readings have stabilized at 313 est miles at 100%.
I went from being the one person setting the maximum battery degradation trend line on TeslaFi to being the one setting the minimum degradation line overnight. There's no way this can be true and I expect it to drop to a more realistic estimate, but how did service center do this? Has anyone heard of service implementing such a "fix"? My concern now is that it'll show I have 60 miles of range left and the car dying in the middle of the road, unless they secretly replaced my battery pack.
This sounds a lot like the Apple battery planned obsolescence scam.
Well, you have until 2028 and if the battery doesn't hold 80%, they are supposed to warranty and replace the battery. See how this plays out as they deliver more cars and people start to run into this issue. Probably why after maybe 2yrs, I will sell the car. Who knows the long term future of this battery/motor issue and the cost to replace if there is a problem.
Regular petrol, cars, although more to go wrong and costs to maintain...I don't think we really know the complete story/answer to these questions yet with Tesla. At least you know with a regular gas car the typical maint/issues you would deal with. And they are repairable for pretty well known costs.
Just my two cents.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
70%
The CAC reset is temporary but it seems that in some instances it actually is appropriate; Tesla seems to have some way of determining the estimate may be bad (which does happen, rarely). Certainly the issue with trusting the new CAC estimates is a valid one until it converges on the new valid estimate.
Update 1: 416 miles after the battery cycle count reset from service with one supercharge and two 4+ hour level 2 charges later -- estimated battery at 100% is 308.53 mile range right now. Charged to 90% today on level 2. Car slept for 20 minutes after charging. Upon getting in the car SOC had moved up to 93%. Not sure why my SOC changes so much...it changes +/- 2-3% lately while stationary.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
My understanding is that the BMS really can only reasonably accurately re-estimate the true SOC after some time with the contactors being open (sleeping). Anything before that is more of a "dead reckoning" "inertial navigation" version of the estimated SOC.
It would be interesting in your recent CAC reset state to do a few long uninterrupted carefully metered runs to relatively low (but not too low) SOC and cross check the trip meter (not since last charge!) with the rated mile usage. (Usually for your car it should be 77.8kWh/322mi * used rated miles *0.955*0.99 = miles traveled*Wh/mi) but I suspect it would be off a bit in your case (rated mile use might be higher than expected).)
I'd expect your vehicle to continue dropping for a while, to something like 290 miles, but the 267 didn't seem very reasonable so hopefully that doesn't show up again at the end of this!
Wondering if anyone encountered this before: On a road trip with my M3LR (official range 358 miles), I had about 35% charge left and about 110 miles remaining to my home. The GPS stated that I will reach my home with 15% of charge; i.e., the GPS stated that I could travel 110 miles with just 20% of charge which was overly optimistic since then 100% charge should reach 550 miles 
Of course, I did not trust it and did supercharging at that point and even after the supercharging, the GPS still stated that I will use only 20% for the 110 mile trip. At the end, I ended using about 31% charge for the 110 miles which is more realistic since that translates to about 355 miles with 100%. So wondering where that overly optimistic 20% = 110 miles estimate from the GPS came? A software bug, or anything related to the latest updates? I am now hesitant to let the GPS do the trip planning since this was very inaccurate.
Of course, I did not trust it and did supercharging at that point and even after the supercharging, the GPS still stated that I will use only 20% for the 110 mile trip. At the end, I ended using about 31% charge for the 110 miles which is more realistic since that translates to about 355 miles with 100%. So wondering where that overly optimistic 20% = 110 miles estimate from the GPS came? A software bug, or anything related to the latest updates? I am now hesitant to let the GPS do the trip planning since this was very inaccurate.
I'm waiting for someone to say use percemt instead (it always happens). I guess it due to msmy factors, I've found the range to be very very optimistic. There's a graph along the bottom that is a bit more realistic, although I've found at high speed it does drain faster than it predicts at the top of the main screen.
). I guess it due to msmy factors, I've found the range to be very very optimistic. There's a graph along the bottom that is a bit more realistic, although I've found at high speed it does drain faster than it predicts at the top of the main screen.It is not impossible to do 110 miles with 20% if going slightly downhill. When coming back home from local mountain trip, it took 5% go 50 miles and Tesla GPS took that into the calculation.
For your case, it could be many factors that cause GPS to miscalculate:
1) Did you drive much faster than your normally would because now you know you have enough juice?
2) Maybe there was a head wind?
3) Did you crank up the A/C or heat after supercharging because now you could.
It could be the software update too. I did found that the GPS estimate seems to be more optimistic lately. Used to be if the GPS said I would get home with 15%, I would get home with like 18 to 20%. Now it seems more like 10 to 12%.
For your case, it could be many factors that cause GPS to miscalculate:
1) Did you drive much faster than your normally would because now you know you have enough juice?
2) Maybe there was a head wind?
3) Did you crank up the A/C or heat after supercharging because now you could.
It could be the software update too. I did found that the GPS estimate seems to be more optimistic lately. Used to be if the GPS said I would get home with 15%, I would get home with like 18 to 20%. Now it seems more like 10 to 12%.
What software version were you on? I just got 16.1.1 and the software says it now factors in wind estimates. The trip consumption graphs seem more bumpy than before.Wondering if anyone encountered this before: On a road trip with my M3LR (official range 358 miles), I had about 35% charge left and about 110 miles remaining to my home. The GPS stated that I will reach my home with 15% of charge; i.e., the GPS stated that I could travel 110 miles with just 20% of charge which was overly optimistic since then 100% charge should reach 550 miles
Of course, I did not trust it and did supercharging at that point and even after the supercharging, the GPS still stated that I will use only 20% for the 110 mile trip. At the end, I ended using about 31% charge for the 110 miles which is more realistic since that translates to about 355 miles with 100%. So wondering where that overly optimistic 20% = 110 miles estimate from the GPS came? A software bug, or anything related to the latest updates? I am now hesitant to let the GPS do the trip planning since this was very inaccurate.
Nope, I drove regularly, had the AC at a normal setting and as I said, I got 110 miles with 31% charge which equates to 355 miles with full charge and is inline with the official 358 miles. I also suspect that it is most likely from the latest software update. Will keep an eye on this.
Yep, got the software update factoring in wind estimates. Might be that things got messed up, hopefully they resolve this with the next update.
It is probably that update. It seems like it is a little too aggressive to dynamically calculate in wind direction and speed's effects on energy usage. For the last week, our area has strange wind (never seen it before this time of the year for the last 12 years) that range from 3 mph to 15 mph sudden gust. Just looking at the weather info there is no way to know if it is 3mph study wind for next 5 min or 15mph frequent gusts.
I think I just got that update too. I wonder if we could turn off those extra calculations in options.
So, I saved my father's day gas money and decided to join the cool kids by getting a OBD adapter, a BT dongle and SMT to satisfy my curiosity.
There's a lot of data and it's mostly gibberish to me, but it seems my battery is still showing 77.0kWh out of 77.8kWh when "new". Anything else to look at?
There's a lot of data and it's mostly gibberish to me, but it seems my battery is still showing 77.0kWh out of 77.8kWh when "new". Anything else to look at?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
You are well above the 76kWh degradation threshold still. It’s a shame we’ll never know where you started.
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