BTW AWD LR delivered 9/30/2018, currently 12k miles. One year old and since 8/28/2019 when I installed 2019.32 9d0d19a the capacity is consistently low by 5 - 7%
MASTER THREAD: Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
If I assume you are charging to 90% then 272 at 90% would equal about 302.2 miles range. I am consistently getting 285 - 290 at 100%
Keep in mind I have only charged to 100% three times since the 2019.32 9d0d19a update trying to determine the cause and trying to re-balance the battery pack. When I do my normal 80% each night I consistently get around 233-238 miles which equates to about 293 miles when algebraically projected to 100% (Note actual range displayed at 100% SOC has been 288 - 290) each time I charged to 100%
Something strange with charging and range. After all I've documented previously I have decided to take the car in for service and see if I can get any answers.. So last night I put the car/charging back to what I normally do.....setup to charge to 80% at 1:00 am. This morning I checked and the car said 251 miles, I thought great it miraculously fixed itself.....but no, it shows 85% SOC???? I had it set for 80% not 85%. I double checked in the car and sure enough the "Green" state of charge indicates 85% and the green "fill" is above the 80% line I set it to and when I switch to miles it says 251 miles which actually is about 81%. Very strange behavior..... Seems to me this is a software but, but I don't really know is 251 miles 81% of capacity or is it 85% of capacity. If it is 85% as the display shows then I am still seeing about 5% (16 miles) of range loss.....hmmmmmmmm????
Last edited:
Went to Tesla service two days ago and they again tried to re-assure me that this is normal. I am now down to a regular 80% SOC of 242 miles after being down to 20% last night.
The technician suggested that I turn on scheduled charging to allow the batteries to "cool off" after a day's drive, for a couple of hours and that may help start a slow rise back in the mileage readings over time. Started doing that last night.
Remote battery health check said there are no errors being reported. He also mentioned after about a year it's normal to see the max mileage down from 310 to the high 290s.
I dunno, it's a new way of looking at cars, so I'm trying to see it that way and not fret about minutia like this.
But I suspect it will continue to go down over time as it has for the past 3 or so months, consistently so, which is what alarms me the most.
The technician suggested that I turn on scheduled charging to allow the batteries to "cool off" after a day's drive, for a couple of hours and that may help start a slow rise back in the mileage readings over time. Started doing that last night.
Remote battery health check said there are no errors being reported. He also mentioned after about a year it's normal to see the max mileage down from 310 to the high 290s.
I dunno, it's a new way of looking at cars, so I'm trying to see it that way and not fret about minutia like this.
But I suspect it will continue to go down over time as it has for the past 3 or so months, consistently so, which is what alarms me the most.
NoMoGas
Supporting Member
Important to note the battery range is an estimation and can take into account your driving habits /Wh usage
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
There is no evidence of this on the battery gauge. That's why the constants work so darn well over a wide range of average Wh/mi usage - they are basically completely perfect unless something goes very wrong. (Obviously the trip estimator and range estimator on the Energy page are completely and totally different.) And Tesla says the displayed range does not take driving habits into account.
Range
“The range displayed is not adapted based on driving pattern or other factors that impact range. When fully charged, the driving range displayed is based on regulating agency certification (Environmental Protection Agency - EPA).”
(See the first FAQ.)
People continue to get capacity and range confused. Capacity is what is displayed on the main screen and, as others have noted, does not take driving habits into account. Range is displayed on the energy screen and does take driving habits and terrain into account.
People are concerned, rightly so, about lost capacity. It's as if Honda sold you a car with a 10 gallon gas tank that then shrunk over time.
Although part of the problem here is self-induced by Tesla with their focus on range over battery pack capacity, and their in-car UI that obfuscates capacity into range.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
NoMoGas
Supporting Member
OK so Im just an idiot who noticed when I ran the car on the track for a month the range went down but after that it went back up.
One issue is these algorithms keep changing with updates.
We know for sure that running the SOC to the extremes will shorten the life of the battery, but there remains no solid indication that this is any sort of permanent "fix."
I've certainly seen my mileage drop... every day almost like clockwork, regardless of having a software update.
While this was not directed at me, I'll answer from my perspective: My car no longer has have enough (confident) range to conveniently get where I need to go.
I'm in a similar position. When I asked Tesla, they remotely tested my battery with their magic test, and determined that while the capacity of my battery is on the bad side of the curve, that I'm still within their happy place. Nothing they can do for the ~40 miles or range I've lost. Note that this is actual miles-driven range, not range estimator range.
I know that I've lost range. The car won't drive as far as it did a year ago, even if I keep my eyes closed the whole time and don't look at the estimator.
Perhaps I'm not most people. I have experienced more than zero real life issues due to reduced range.
I'm right there with you. I have friends with older Model S's who have lost less range in 5x as many years and miles. I was expecting to beat that longevity with the new cells being used in the 3.
OK, so I visited TMC today in order to see if there was any more info on the range loss.... and I find Mr. Ninja expressing almost the identical situation that I am facing. He's as persistent as I am, so I'm looking forward to anything he turns up.
Let me toss this out right up front in an attempt to avoid the coming "just put it on percentage and everything will be great!" I have lost REAL range. As in the number of miles that my car will cover while driving at the same average consumption. While using 240 Wh/mile, I can no longer get the OVER 310 miles that I once did. In fact I've lost over 10% of range. I have no idea what my battery capacity really is, because nobody will tell me. Tesla sent me a chart that compares my battery capacity (how do they get that info?) to others. But it still doesn't show my capacity or what they consider to be normal now. And honestly, if every other owner has lost over 10% in a year of carefully tending to battery health, I'm not happy about just being "average" either.
Today I can get right around 50 miles for each 20% of SOC that I consume. I used to get between 60 and 65 miles for each 20%... driving the same places, in the same weather, in the same manner. I've now had the car for just over a year, so I understand the seasonal impacts (never mind that this is my 5th EV over 20 years). Again my average consumption is well under 250 wh/mile. Stats shows me down to about 280 miles of range while my real-world testing shows me closer to 250 miles. Either way you slice it, I've lost a significant chunk of range in a short period. I don't have the big gaps in the chart that some others have seen. Mine just happily drops consistently. The recent big drop from 290-280 is likely a result of it finally getting cold here.
I have local friends and neighbors with the same car... and the same age. And so far every one of them has shown no more than a 1% loss of range.... about what I expected.
Before about 7,000 miles (six months ago) I was happily bouncing along at about 308 average reported range, and was thrilled to see the battery performing as expected. And I could confidently get ~300 miles out of a single charge. But not today!
Let me toss this out right up front in an attempt to avoid the coming "just put it on percentage and everything will be great!" I have lost REAL range. As in the number of miles that my car will cover while driving at the same average consumption. While using 240 Wh/mile, I can no longer get the OVER 310 miles that I once did. In fact I've lost over 10% of range. I have no idea what my battery capacity really is, because nobody will tell me. Tesla sent me a chart that compares my battery capacity (how do they get that info?) to others. But it still doesn't show my capacity or what they consider to be normal now. And honestly, if every other owner has lost over 10% in a year of carefully tending to battery health, I'm not happy about just being "average" either.
Today I can get right around 50 miles for each 20% of SOC that I consume. I used to get between 60 and 65 miles for each 20%... driving the same places, in the same weather, in the same manner. I've now had the car for just over a year, so I understand the seasonal impacts (never mind that this is my 5th EV over 20 years). Again my average consumption is well under 250 wh/mile. Stats shows me down to about 280 miles of range while my real-world testing shows me closer to 250 miles. Either way you slice it, I've lost a significant chunk of range in a short period. I don't have the big gaps in the chart that some others have seen. Mine just happily drops consistently. The recent big drop from 290-280 is likely a result of it finally getting cold here.
I have local friends and neighbors with the same car... and the same age. And so far every one of them has shown no more than a 1% loss of range.... about what I expected.
Before about 7,000 miles (six months ago) I was happily bouncing along at about 308 average reported range, and was thrilled to see the battery performing as expected. And I could confidently get ~300 miles out of a single charge. But not today!
You could try just leaving your car in the driveway and crank the heat all the way to max, turn on the rear defroster and every seat heater to drain the battery close to 20% without having to drive anywhere. Not sure how fast this will drain the battery though.
If it's cold enough outside running the heat on max with the windows open should empty the battery in 8-10 hours I think.
Edit: I'm pretty sure defroster auto shuts off eventually and seat heaters aren't a huge drain though all of them together would shave off a good fraction of an hour.
Edit2: 8-10 hours was for 90-100% to 0. Would be a bit less for 90-20%. Though if it's not cold enough it could be longer...
Wasn’t talking to a person that knows they lost range or someone who travels close to the max range of their car (which isn’t recommended anyway, by the way)
You aren't gonna find one without the other.
First off, a 250 mile drive shouldn't be max range. But to know that it is, it must be driven. I do it *rarely* and only to prove that there is a problem and to fend off the "how do you know that it isn't just calibration" questions.
You have no way to know if the OP lost real range or if it is calibration. OP was basing his thesis over a narrow dataset range, did you read the OP?
Right. I'm talking about my own situation, not the OP's. And that was part of my point with "You aren't gonna find one without the other."
Why does this seem like an argument? I see no benefit it continuing down this rabbit hole. If you're trying to make some sort of point that I'm wrong about something, I'll happily stipulate that I'm an idiot so we can move on with the relevant discussion. If you're upset with the OP, I'll try better to stay out of the way.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Sticky
- Sticky
