Are you saying that a 100% charge reports an estimated range of 258.5 miles, or are you saying that you were able to actually drive 258.5 miles. Because those are two very different things. And the range you are able to drive depends on a lot of factors. For example temperature, speed, wind, elevation change, HVAC settings, how aggressively you accelerate, etc.
MASTER THREAD: Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, How to Maintain Battery Health
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Are you saying that a 100% charge reports an estimated range of 258.5 miles, or are you saying that you were able to actually drive 258.5 miles. Because those are two very different things. And the range you are able to drive depends on a lot of factors. For example temperature, speed, wind, elevation change, HVAC settings, how aggressively you accelerate, etc.
Half_Ghost
Member
Hello All,
New here, Just ordered my SR+ the other day and cant stop looking up information about various things. Looking through different threads I can't seem to find my answer to this question. If my daily commute is very short on weekdays (sometimes Sub - 5 miles as I live very close to my job) What is the best practice for charing my vehicle and maintaining the best battery heath? Should I still stick to plugging In every night and use the 20-80% rule? I will be getting a 14-50 receptacle installed before delivery and will charge though the mobile charger with the 14-50 connector.
New here, Just ordered my SR+ the other day and cant stop looking up information about various things. Looking through different threads I can't seem to find my answer to this question. If my daily commute is very short on weekdays (sometimes Sub - 5 miles as I live very close to my job) What is the best practice for charing my vehicle and maintaining the best battery heath? Should I still stick to plugging In every night and use the 20-80% rule? I will be getting a 14-50 receptacle installed before delivery and will charge though the mobile charger with the 14-50 connector.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Assuming you mean you traveled 258.5 miles on a 99% charge, that's actually pretty normal. That's about 282Wh/mi (77.8kWh/258.5mi*0.99*0.955*0.99), as displayed (assuming you did this mileage continuously, which you probably didn't, so your actual consumption while driving was probably considerably lower).
Likely nothing wrong with your battery. Remember the 353 rated miles is only loosely correlated with distance. It's a representation of energy, not distance.
If you want to do 353 miles, do it all in one shot, and drive slow enough that your average consumption shows ~209Wh/mi (and do it soon, before your battery loses a small amount of capacity). If you start to exceed 209Wh/mi, drive more slowly (probably something like 40mph will do it if you have climate control off - so about 8-9 continuous hours in the car).
EDIT: (Deleted the comment about @Kimmi, since the poster was referencing rated miles. Hence the calculation worked out to be exactly the discharge constant.)
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Half_Ghost
Member
I thought about that but I do drive a lot during weekends and random times. So I’d like to have the safety of faster charging when needed. I guess my main question still is with driving so small amounts during the week should I just keep my car plugged in and at say 80% all the time...
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah, should be fine, though some here would recommend 70% for your use case (184 SR+ rated miles), with higher limits on the weekends when you drive more.
Don't listen to me though; I've lost ~12% capacity (~68.6kWh) in 2 years, 25k miles, charging to 80% nearly all the time. (A fairly common result, and I also don't really think the charging regimen makes that much difference; my opinion is that individual results are likely mostly random except in cases of extremely abusive charging - I've definitely used all of my Performance power on occasion and that might not be good for the battery either, though it doesn't qualify as abuse. Very hard to quantify contributing factors. Just do a little magic dance and pray/hope you have a solid battery, and you'll be good. Each battery is just a point on a distribution AFAIK.)
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In theory, the closer you keep it short-cycling around 50%, the better health, but as alan notes, battery health can be somewhat random. By all means, keep it plugged in, and choose a strategy. If it doesn't meet your expectations, then change your strategy.
So here's my info. I live in Austin, TX. I've reported this issue twice to Tesla service in the past month. They asked me to charge to 100% and discharge to as much as possible. I charged to 100% and over 5 days depleted the car to 1%. Vehicle drove 258.5 miles, used 63 kWh of power, and 243 Wh/mile per the "Since Last Charge" screen.
I then charged the car to 90%, depleted it to 10% over 4-5 days. Vehicle drove 212 miles, used 50 kWh of power, and 237 Wh/mile per the "Since Last Charge" screen. 50 kWh divided by 80% = 63 kWh battery capacity at 100% and 265 mile total range at 100%. Both charge to depletion driving habits were a mix of city and hwy.
I made a new service appointment based on this info.
Yesterday, the Austin office called with a tech and a local manager, told me not to bring my vehicle in for service, and told me my car is operating properly. I asserted my vehicle is the 2021 Model 3 LR (refreshed) that should have the 82 kWh battery. He stated Tesla does not use or discuss battery size. He did confirm that my average of 237 Wh/mile and 243 Wh/mile is very efficient. But he tried to convince me that the "Since Last Charge" screen does not capture total energy usage "since last charge" claiming it may miss idle time. He also stated the vehicle may well be able to drive an additional amount after displaying 0% battery, possibly as much as 20-30% more. I replied that driving the vehicle to depletion and calling a tow truck would be a poor experiment for me to try.
I asked Tesla to inspect my battery for issues related to possible improper wiring (i.e. not all cells being accessible), or some major degradation prior to delivery. My logic is Tesla warrants the battery so they must be able to determine charge capacity and degradation percent. His reply is that this info is the "secret sauce" of Tesla and that their over the air data shows my battery is fully charging despite the 63 kWh total capacity on the "Since Last Charge" screen.
I'm stumped, and at a dead end with my local Tesla center. Any suggestions on how to escalate this issue, as a 260 mile range vehicle operating efficiently (about 240 Wh/mile over time) is not acceptable. I think this is related to the battery 63 kWh capacity. BTW, my ex-wife bought a 2021 Model Y delivered the same week and is having similar range issues.
Appreciate any brainstorming you can offer.
Posted this to another user. Apologies if it's a mistake to post it here, but would appreciate your opinion. I'm averaging around 240 Wh/mile over time. Using your calculations, the vehicle should easily drive over 300 miles using 99% charge capacity. Again, think the issue is my vehicle only will charge at 100% to 63 kWh, and the local Tesla service manager tells me that's perfectly acceptable for a new vehicle. Frustrated...
So here's my info. I live in Austin, TX. I've reported this issue twice to Tesla service in the past month. They asked me to charge to 100% and discharge to as much as possible. I charged to 100% and over 5 days depleted the car to 1%. Vehicle drove 258.5 miles, used 63 kWh of power, and 243 Wh/mile per the "Since Last Charge" screen.
I then charged the car to 90%, depleted it to 10% over 4-5 days. Vehicle drove 212 miles, used 50 kWh of power, and 237 Wh/mile per the "Since Last Charge" screen. 50 kWh divided by 80% = 63 kWh battery capacity at 100% and 265 mile total range at 100%. Both charge to depletion driving habits were a mix of city and hwy.
I made a new service appointment based on this info.
Yesterday, the Austin office called with a tech and a local manager, told me not to bring my vehicle in for service, and told me my car is operating properly. I asserted my vehicle is the 2021 Model 3 LR (refreshed) that should have the 82 kWh battery. He stated Tesla does not use or discuss battery size. He did confirm that my average of 237 Wh/mile and 243 Wh/mile is very efficient. But he tried to convince me that the "Since Last Charge" screen does not capture total energy usage "since last charge" claiming it may miss idle time. He also stated the vehicle may well be able to drive an additional amount after displaying 0% battery, possibly as much as 20-30% more. I replied that driving the vehicle to depletion and calling a tow truck would be a poor experiment for me to try.
I asked Tesla to inspect my battery for issues related to possible improper wiring (i.e. not all cells being accessible), or some major degradation prior to delivery. My logic is Tesla warrants the battery so they must be able to determine charge capacity and degradation percent. His reply is that this info is the "secret sauce" of Tesla and that their over the air data shows my battery is fully charging despite the 63 kWh total capacity on the "Since Last Charge" screen.
I'm stumped, and at a dead end with my local Tesla center. Any suggestions on how to escalate this issue, as a 260 mile range vehicle operating efficiently (about 240 Wh/mile over time) is not acceptable. I think this is related to the battery 63 kWh capacity. BTW, my ex-wife bought a 2021 Model Y delivered the same week and is having similar range issues.
Appreciate any brainstorming you can offer.
What is the estimated range displayed when you charge to 100%? (That will tell you how much capacity loss/degradation you have.)
Well...yeah. Because that's true. That always has been true of all Tesla vehicles.
Whoa. OK, now that's not right. There might be a few little % left there, but nothing near as big as 20-30%.
353 miles. The Tesla manager told me to ignore the 353 mile display, but later in the conversation stated the fact the vehicle displays 353 miles of range at 100% charge indicates it is fully charged. Crux of problem, I continue to believe, is that at 100% fully charged the vehicle only has 63 kWh of power in the battery.
cylonmode
Member
We're kinda the same... I have a SR+ and my daily commute is only 14 miles round trip, I usually charge to 75%(ish) every other day. Not sure how it effects my battery health but it works for me and I like to think it will help in the long run.
That's energy, not power, by the way. Power is a rate of energy usage. But your assumption (belief) isn't correct. This relates to what I pointed out earlier, and the Tesla tech also tried to explain to you. If you do several short drives over several days, there is a lot of energy that is being consumed that is not being counted in that "Since Last Charge" meter on the display. So there is a lot more than 63 kWh of energy in the battery that did get used.
Confused. "Since Last Charge" is pretty specific language. Why would idle data be excluded? Even if it is, idle power loss is quite minimal in these vehicle, I believe.
I did to a 130 mile r/t on state highways recently (65 mph with some stop lights) in one day to go hiking. The vehicle was charged to 100%, and when I got home it was at 50%, 244 Wh/mile for that trip. Again, implied total range would be 260 miles fully charged, and total kWh of the battery would be 63 kWh instead of the 82 kWh or 75 kWh it's supposed to have equipped.
At an average over time of 240 Wh/mile, with an 82 kWh battery the vehicle would drive 340 miles or more. At 260 miles and 63 kWh, I'm way under that. Obviously frustrated, as is my ex-wife who bought a 2021 Model Y LR having similar issues.
With all the talk about range anxiety, am surprised the issue of getting only about 70% of EPA range when operating the vehicle efficiently per Tesla is not more well publicized. Had I believed my situation a possibility, I would not have migrated to this car. At worst, I figured I'd be well above 300 miles of range on a full charge.
My view is either my vehicle has a battery and range problem Tesla can fix, or potential buyers should be made more aware that they cannot expect to approach anywhere close to EPA stated range even when operating the vehicle very efficiently in Tesla's opinion (per the local Tesla manager who stated my driving habits are very efficient). Still hoping my issue is battery related and can be fixed, as 63 kWh battery capacity is below replacement % rates and my vehicle is new.
Well, it does exclude any time you aren't driving. And if you are using Dashcam/Sentry mode idle power demand is fairly high. (~1 mile per hour if I remember correctly.)
Unless you are driving the same as the EPA test procedure you aren't going to get the EPA range. (And the EPA test procedure tops out at ~60 MPH, and even at that it is only for short bursts in the test. Were you driving faster than that?)
You can use a tool like ABRP to see how speed, and other factors, might impact your range. (Tesla used to have a tool on their site that estimated range with inputs of speed and temperature but I think they left it out during one of the site redesigns.)
tl;dr: Your car, and battery, are likely fine.
cylonmode
Member
and you live in Austin TX, its not like there are crazy weather extremes or mountains/hills to worry about. I think Tesla definitely needs to be more forthcoming with honest real driving data when it comes to range. The difference between EPA and actual range is astonishing... I would have paid extra for a M3 LR if I had known better.
Yeah, you are definitely not the only one. That has been confusing a lot of people for a long time.
Yeah, you would think so, and we don't know why they decided to do it that way, but it only counts the usage when the car is in Drive or Reverse. It's weird, but that's the way it's set up.
No, it's definitely not minimal. That has actually been quite a frequent gripe about Tesla's EVs versus many other car brands' EVs. Tesla is doing quite a lot with their onboard computer systems and have pretty high vampire drain. You can reduce it from extremely high drain to only moderate drain by turning off some settings, but it's still more than it needs to be and certainly a lot more than cars like the Nissan Leaf.
It's not 63 kWh.
Agreed! BTW, Sentry Mode is off to save power per Tesla's suggestion.
Here's the kicker. Went to www.tesla.com and began a Model 3 LR chat with a Tesla rep. Did this before buying, and also talked with local reps at the service location here in Austin. Asked the online rep if 353 miles is a real world range for someone driving normally and on long trips as I don't want to have to stop and recharge every 200 or 250 miles. The verbatim response, which mirrors the response of all Tesla employees I asked similar questions to, was "The mileage is accurate. How soon are you looking to get a new Model 3?" I replied that I don't want a car that makes me stop every 200 or 250 miles to recharge, and the reply was, "I understand and the mileage is accurate. You may get notified to stop before you hit the 353 but only so you do not run out of charge."
Sure seems like a big disconnect between the pre-sale Tesla employees and the post-sale Tesla service employees. Inaccurate advertising would be a mild description of the discrepancy. Very surprised my situation seems to be acceptable to many here.
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