This IS "that thread". Other people have other threads to talk about this same discussion, and I moved all of the ones I have seen in the model 3 subforum into this one, so as far as in the model 3 subforum and discussion on this topic, this is the one.
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Discussion: Updated Range and 0-60 times for Model 3 and Y
- Thread starter PNWLeccy
- Start date
snikt
Member
diamond.g
Active Member
AH, see I said I was a slow poke, lol. So we are presuming the base Model 3 is not using the 990 Motor instead of the 980 one?
Absolutely agree. Bait and switch sucks. So if I want a quick car the price went up $17k
jackmott
Member
Yeah it is definitely a bummer for a lot of people, other people have waited specifically because they want the new battery. Have people tested the 0-60 of the new vs old SR+ to see if its really as different as the specs claim?
RedWhite19
Member
Tesla is a bit strange with their numbers. There are videos on YouTube that show people hitting 60 around the low 5’s and high 4s. I have a 2020 SR+ and a 2021 MYSR, Tesla claims both do 0-60 in 5.3. I don’t think that is correct. The SR+ is quicker. However, my SRMY has the 980 motor, so I can always give it the boost. But it is a bummer that the number dropped to 5.8. But at least you get more range, I guess that’s a bonus for some people.
I just upgraded my 2020 SRM3 to a SR+ for $2000. So, now I have 0-60 in 5.3 instead of 5.6. My wife has a 2021 SRMY that is 0-60 in 5.3. The SRM3 SR+ definitely seems quicker.
Don't unless you have a vin number already. These changes effect all production starting November 1st.
I was pissed that I ordered in August and will now get stuck with the 5.8 0-60 SR+. Sounds like in your situation you will benefit from the new longer range on the LR
I ordered a Model 3 SR+ back in October.
I am coming from a 2016 Camaro SS which runs about a 5sec 0-60 on non-prepped surfaces with a regular driver.
The SR+ from back then offered a 5.3sec 0-60 which is close enough I think.
Fast forward to now, Tesla decided to change out the batteries and reduce the performance to 5.8sec.
I reached out to them and asked if I would have the old or the new and they informed me that since mine has not started production yet, I would have the newer/slower setup.
I was/am frustrated by this, so I asked if they would honor the AWD version pricing from a few months back so I can get better performance.
The Customer Service rep stated that they cannot but I shouldn't worry because the newer battery setup is "more than enough performance".
This post is just a venting session as I am frustrated. Sorry if this seems like a waste of time but I wanted to post this here as others could find themselves in the same boat and not even realize they were getting the weaker performance version.
Here is the back and forth email to and from Tesla:
Myself to Tesla:
Hello,
I have a few questions about my reservation.
1. Is it possible to change my reservation?
I ordered the SR+ and it keeps getting delayed.
2. I see the pricing went up with the Long Range version of the Model 3
Is it possible to get the pricing that was offered when I made my original reservation?
3. My reservation was for a SR+ and I noticed the site changed and made it slower than when I ordered it, will this affect my car?
4. Why does my delivery date keep changing and when will mine actually arrive?
Thank you
Tesla to Me:
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for reaching out! I will do my best to answer your questions below:
Hope this helps! Please let me know if there is anything else we can do to assist!
Myself to Tesla:
That is not great news.
I purchased the SR+ because it has more than enough range.
The previous SR+ had decent acceleration but the new version is quite a bit slower.
I am interested in potentially paying for the AWD version but not if Tesla won't honor the pricing that was in place when I reserved my car.
Ultimately, more range for less performance is a bad trade off especially when I put my order in with the specs displayed in front of me.
Now, without any agreement on my end, my car was swapped out for a lower performing model, pushed back 3 months and the only other choice I have it to pay higher prices (then they were when I put my reservation in).
This feels dirty. I hope someone can do something about this as the specs I agreed to are not what I am going to get now...
Again, I'd be happy to pay for the next version up at about 6k more than my current reservation but not if I am going to be hit with a pricing increase. Remember, the only reason this is on the table is because my specs were reduced and my order was delayed.
I am coming from a 2016 Camaro SS which runs about a 5sec 0-60 on non-prepped surfaces with a regular driver.
The SR+ from back then offered a 5.3sec 0-60 which is close enough I think.
Fast forward to now, Tesla decided to change out the batteries and reduce the performance to 5.8sec.
I reached out to them and asked if I would have the old or the new and they informed me that since mine has not started production yet, I would have the newer/slower setup.
I was/am frustrated by this, so I asked if they would honor the AWD version pricing from a few months back so I can get better performance.
The Customer Service rep stated that they cannot but I shouldn't worry because the newer battery setup is "more than enough performance".
This post is just a venting session as I am frustrated. Sorry if this seems like a waste of time but I wanted to post this here as others could find themselves in the same boat and not even realize they were getting the weaker performance version.
Here is the back and forth email to and from Tesla:
Myself to Tesla:
Hello,
I have a few questions about my reservation.
1. Is it possible to change my reservation?
I ordered the SR+ and it keeps getting delayed.
2. I see the pricing went up with the Long Range version of the Model 3
Is it possible to get the pricing that was offered when I made my original reservation?
3. My reservation was for a SR+ and I noticed the site changed and made it slower than when I ordered it, will this affect my car?
4. Why does my delivery date keep changing and when will mine actually arrive?
Thank you
Tesla to Me:
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for reaching out! I will do my best to answer your questions below:
- It is still possible to change you reservation, yes!
- With that said, if you were to make any changes to your reservation, it would be processed like placing a new order (without having to put down another $250 order fee), but you would be subject to the current pricing that is on the website. We will not be able to honor the old price from when you placed your order if any configuration changes are made.
- Since your vehicle has not yet been built, and these changes have been in affect on every car we’ve built since November 1st, your car will have these updated specs. With that said, while the acceleration has very slightly diminished, the 2022 Model 3 RWD now utilizes a new battery pack with higher energy capacity, which allows the car to achieve greater range. These new packs also utilize a unique cell chemistry that's designed to regularly charge to 100%, allowing customers to take advantage of the full pack energy on a daily basis. Up to 272 miles of range. (Previously 263 and could only be charged to 90% daily.) In my opinion, this is a good change, and your Tesla will still have plenty of acceleration for your daily driving needs!
- As far as the delivery date changing, I apologize for the confusion this may cause. There have been a lot of shifts in production at our factory due to supply chain shortages, and this will sometimes cause the estimates in your account to keep changing. While there are no guarantees, we are cautiously hopeful that we will be able to have your car ready for delivery by the end of this year.
Hope this helps! Please let me know if there is anything else we can do to assist!
Myself to Tesla:
That is not great news.
I purchased the SR+ because it has more than enough range.
The previous SR+ had decent acceleration but the new version is quite a bit slower.
I am interested in potentially paying for the AWD version but not if Tesla won't honor the pricing that was in place when I reserved my car.
Ultimately, more range for less performance is a bad trade off especially when I put my order in with the specs displayed in front of me.
Now, without any agreement on my end, my car was swapped out for a lower performing model, pushed back 3 months and the only other choice I have it to pay higher prices (then they were when I put my reservation in).
This feels dirty. I hope someone can do something about this as the specs I agreed to are not what I am going to get now...
Again, I'd be happy to pay for the next version up at about 6k more than my current reservation but not if I am going to be hit with a pricing increase. Remember, the only reason this is on the table is because my specs were reduced and my order was delayed.
@quickshot23 I think you are justifiably upset. I do think the LFP battery is an overall better tradeoff for many SR+ buyers, but for anyone like you who is performance-minded and still wanted RWD, the LFP is clearly worse and they've done a bait-and-switch with your order.
Honoring AWD pricing from the time you ordered your SR+ would make sense to me. I doubt you'll be able to convince Tesla to do it, but I hope I'm wrong and they come through for you.
Otherwise, insist on getting your deposit back and don't feel bad at all about taking your money elsewhere! (Including the used car market if needed, though it's very annoying that used car prices are beyond stupid right now.)
Thinking about this more, wouldn't a (used) Long Range RWD be the best Model 3 for you?
Well, if used car prices were less ridiculous. Who are all these people paying more for used cars than new cars??
If the price was a reduction of a new car price I'd consider it.
I was planning on going full Tesla for the family but if this is how things are handled by them, I may reconsider.
I've worked with car companies who didn't honor their warranty and gave terrible after sales support and it made me decide to not purchase from their company again. I hope this doesn't lead to one of those scenarios.
(moderator note)
I originally moved this post into the regular "Master thread LFP battery" thread, but thinking about it, decided it better fit into this thread on 0-60 times. and updated pricing for that model vehicle. I apologize for moving it twice but the discussion is better seen by people who are interested in the 0-60 times and pricing, and that is what is impacting you here.
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(not moderation content, regular post)
FWIW, I think you are completely 100% justified here in being upset. I would be quite upset as well. I understand why tesla is making this change, because they are thinking that the "entry level" model 3 benefits more from range than performance (and its also cheaper for them), but thats not the car you reserved.
I personally dont get the excitement over "I can always charge to 100%" unless a person drives their entire range out every day. An additional 20 miles range is not going to make much difference on a trip ( you are likely not skipping a supercharger because of it), and for daily use, always charging to 100% instead of 90% doesnt mean anything at all.
Conversely, a slower car is a slower car. You can feel "slower or faster" every time you step on the pedal, regardless of whether you are playing "stoplight hero" or simply driving. There should be a choice for people who reserved (and still want) the higher performance / slightly less range version of the car. If it were me, I would be trying to find one in stock, or canceling my order. I generally dont "settle" for car purchase anymore, not since I have been able to afford to buy new ones.
Wishing you the best of luck, @quickshot23 , at either finding a SR+ with the NCA battery or some other resolution that works for you,.
Thank you.
Ideally I would like to just upgrade the the AWD Non-performance but because of this situation and the fact that I ordered it months ago, I feel it is only fair that they honor the pricing from that time.
I'm surprised that more people aren't angry about this...
Unless they are just not aware that Tesla changed the terms of their agreement without their consentContinued correspondence between Tesla and I
Tesla to Me:
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for the thoughtful response, and I completely understand your frustration. Here at Tesla, we are constantly making improvements throughout the year to our vehicles, and it is not uncommon for small changes like this to take place on short notice. In regards to speed, the 0-60MPH time has only been reduced by .5 seconds in order to maximize efficiency, and I can assure Tesla does not make any slow cars. Our smooth, instant torque that our vehicles are known for will still be experienced in your Model 3, even if the specs are slightly less than before. Also, while I know it’s hard to quantify now, but having a “2022” Model year car with these most up to date specs will only help with resale value down the road.
Here at Tesla, the pricing is always consistent with what is on the website, and there will be no way for us to honor any previous price offerings on any trim. If any changes were made, a new order agreement would be produced at the today pricing, which is a policy we have always been consistent with. Unfortunately, there is no way around this.
As far as solutions go, I would love to invite you in to our store in a few weeks when we get one in stock (they just started building them this week) to test drive the updated 2022 Model and see if these new specs may still suffice for what you are looking for in your next car. From a cost perspective, keeping your current order as is would be the most beneficial to you, as the price you are paying is $5,000 less than someone who purchased today.
Another solution is we could also explore some potential leftover 2021 inventory options that have the old specs, but these cars are sold as-is, at cost and would start at today’s pricing of $44,990.
I apologize again for the frustration, and want to do everything I can in my power to assist you in making your decision.
Hope this helps, and please let me know if there is anything else I can do.
Myself to Tesla:
The issue here is, when I ordered, I selected the car I wanted based off the specs listed. That 0-60 was 5.3s and now it is 10% slower without my agreeing to the change.
Your solution to that issue is to pay $4,000 more (the current price) for an older car that matches the spec that both Tesla and I agreed to.
This seems like a breach of an agreement.
I agreed to buy Car A
Tesla changed the car out, didn't tell me, and was going to deliver it as the car I purchased.
This seems to be a breach of contract.
I understand your limitations but this is a situation where I am not getting what was offered to me.
My solution seems more than fair (to buy the next stage up at it's previous cost) but from what I am gathering, Tesla is standing firm that they will just breach this contract. Am I wrong?
I want to have the facts straight before I proceed with whatever my next step is.
Tesla to Me:
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for the thoughtful response, and I completely understand your frustration. Here at Tesla, we are constantly making improvements throughout the year to our vehicles, and it is not uncommon for small changes like this to take place on short notice. In regards to speed, the 0-60MPH time has only been reduced by .5 seconds in order to maximize efficiency, and I can assure Tesla does not make any slow cars. Our smooth, instant torque that our vehicles are known for will still be experienced in your Model 3, even if the specs are slightly less than before. Also, while I know it’s hard to quantify now, but having a “2022” Model year car with these most up to date specs will only help with resale value down the road.
Here at Tesla, the pricing is always consistent with what is on the website, and there will be no way for us to honor any previous price offerings on any trim. If any changes were made, a new order agreement would be produced at the today pricing, which is a policy we have always been consistent with. Unfortunately, there is no way around this.
As far as solutions go, I would love to invite you in to our store in a few weeks when we get one in stock (they just started building them this week) to test drive the updated 2022 Model and see if these new specs may still suffice for what you are looking for in your next car. From a cost perspective, keeping your current order as is would be the most beneficial to you, as the price you are paying is $5,000 less than someone who purchased today.
Another solution is we could also explore some potential leftover 2021 inventory options that have the old specs, but these cars are sold as-is, at cost and would start at today’s pricing of $44,990.
I apologize again for the frustration, and want to do everything I can in my power to assist you in making your decision.
Hope this helps, and please let me know if there is anything else I can do.
Myself to Tesla:
The issue here is, when I ordered, I selected the car I wanted based off the specs listed. That 0-60 was 5.3s and now it is 10% slower without my agreeing to the change.
Your solution to that issue is to pay $4,000 more (the current price) for an older car that matches the spec that both Tesla and I agreed to.
This seems like a breach of an agreement.
I agreed to buy Car A
Tesla changed the car out, didn't tell me, and was going to deliver it as the car I purchased.
This seems to be a breach of contract.
I understand your limitations but this is a situation where I am not getting what was offered to me.
My solution seems more than fair (to buy the next stage up at it's previous cost) but from what I am gathering, Tesla is standing firm that they will just breach this contract. Am I wrong?
I want to have the facts straight before I proceed with whatever my next step is.
The most ridiculous thing in their response is telling you they have leftover inventory cars that match your reservation spec, but they won't honor your reservation price if they sell you one. That's f***** up.
Tell them you'll take one of those 5.3sec inventory cars (new only, non-demo) at your reservation price. That just makes sense to me!
Whomever @quickshot23 is communicating with likely doesnt have that authority. One thing tesla has been *very* good at, is hiding "the person / people who can say yes" from almost everyone. In every organization, there are always people who can approve non standard things. The trick is, normally, finding that person / those people, then convincing them that YOU are the one they want to make an exception for.
The "right" thing to do here, from an objective point of view, seems to be for Tesla to offer to sell an in stock car at @quickshot23 's reserved price. That doesnt seem like an egregious ask (in fact it seems extremely reasonable), and doesnt actually cost tesla any more money than they currently are in line to make on @quickshot23 's car purchase.
With that being said, whomever they are communicating with likely cant make that call. There will be someone who can, but finding them is another story.
If I were @quickshot23 , I think I would send another email that read something like this:
==========================
" Hello so and so, thank you for your response and continuing to engage me on this topic. As you rightly indicated, this is pretty frustrating to me. The best path forward for me, (the thing that would make me happy) given this situation, is for me to be able to purchase a car with the specifications I reserved / ordered. Since things like "fast enough" or "enough range" are very subjective, I do not want to get bogged down in discussing what is or is not a minor change, or is or is not enough range for my needs.
Since you mention that there are "cars on the ground" that have the current specifications I ordered, it seems to me that the easiest path forward would be for me to be able to purchase one of these existing cars at my already reserved pricing. Can you assist me in escalating my concern, or provide me with contact information for a manager who might be able to discuss this with me?
Again, even though I am very frustrated, I do really appreciate you continuing to engage me on this topic, and hopefully we can find a path forward that works for both of us. Thank you in advance for your assistance in escalating my concern, or contact information to do so.
Respectfully,
Quickshot23
==============================================
Or something a lot like it, anyway. What @quickshot23 needs, frankly, is whomever they are communicating with being WILLING to escalate it to someone who might be able to make something happen. Front line customer service people are always part gatekeeper, and metrics ARE kept on how many things they escalate, etc. Anything much more aggressive than the above likely just gets @quickshot23 ghosted.
Customer service people are human too, and threats really dont work, especially in a medium as easy to ignore as email, when there are no easy paths to escalate.
The other path @quickshot23 could try is to see if they can go to a tesla sales location somewhere within range of them to get to, ask to speak to a manager, and CALMLY state their concern and ask if they can assist in finding a car "on the ground" thats an SR+ with the NCA battery that meets acceptable configuration (interior / exterior color, etc), at the reserved price.
Note that I do not work for, or have any escalation points within, Tesla, so this is not advice from someone on the inside or anything. My advice comes from the fact that my entire career has been spent either performing, or managing people who perform customer service roles, including being a supervisor in a call center for a time.
There is always someone who can approve something, finding that person within Tesla is very difficult (in my mind, deliberately so). They made it that way because exceptions cost money (very few times is an exception about something that is going to save the company money). Tesla has made it deliberately hard to find that person / those people, for everyone, and that likely saves them millions a year in exceptions. With that being said, that person / those people exist somewhere, and internally they will have an escalation path, its just convincing them to use it, for YOU thats the challenge.
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