TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
  1. TMC is currently READ ONLY.
    Click here for more info.

MASTER THREAD: Winter charging issues, frozen charge ports, road trips

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by glhs272, Dec 7, 2018.

?

Is my cars range considered normal?

  1. Yes

    28 vote(s)
    82.4%
  2. No

    6 vote(s)
    17.6%
  1. RFernatt

    RFernatt Solar/EV Owner/Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2016
    Messages:
    645
    Location:
    Eastern Panhandle, West Virginia
    ABRP predicts 15% at 30 degree and no wind, but those were variable during the trip. I didn't use the car's nav since it was a common trip for me and I wasn't actually charging in Martinsburg, just stopped to get the photo and then another 10 mins to home.
     
  2. chrisf60526

    chrisf60526 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2019
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Rude awakening this weekend in my SR+. Picked my car up mid December so it's cold here in Chicago the whole time i have had the car/

    100% charge, cold weather at ~33 degrees. First leg trip i went 70 miles and used 49% of my capacity. The only variable, and a big one at that, is that we had 5 in the car. Me, wife, 2 kids, and mother in law (who is not that small). I'd estimate the the weight at 650lbs total. Luckily, there was a SC 11 miles away or this would have been tight.

    I estimate i lost ~33% range with the extra weight and weather based on my calculations. Not complaining but as a newbie, you gotta think about this.
     
    • Informative x 1
  3. Tessaract

    Tessaract Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2019
    Messages:
    332
    Location:
    Ottawa
    There are many reasons for reduced range in cold weather, discussed in detail above in many other threads, so I won't repeat them. But my opinion is that the weight of your MIL doesn't much matter, it's the temperature (the most important aspect of weather, but not the only one) that matters here. Speed, snow, rain, are other weather aspects. All matter.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  4. ngogas

    ngogas Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    1,725
    Location:
    Utah
    Yes cold weather can be very draining.
     
  5. KL0809

    KL0809 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2020
    Messages:
    134
    Location:
    Rotterdam
  6. Halifax_NS

    Halifax_NS New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Halifax, Canada
    I'm extremely close to my first Tesla purchase but hearing suggestions to use water or a hair dryer to disconnect from a charge, especially given our climate in NE Canada, I'm a bit hesitant. Tough for me to spend 70 grand on a car that I need a back-up hairdryer in the back seat in order to use it. hmmmmmm
    someone please convince me otherwise!
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Informative x 1
  7. GPinzone

    GPinzone Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    316
    Location:
    Ronkonkoma, NY
    A hairdryer won't work. It was 20 F outside and my hairdryer couldn't heat up the cold air to make it warm enough to make a difference. I thought the emergency release in the trunk was frozen, too, but after a mobile service call, I discovered the manual release cable was never connected at the factory! I suspect the manual release would have solved the issue. I also took a preventative measure by spraying Deoxit DN5 into the charge port, which should clean and lubricate the connections as well as the locking pin. However, I haven't had may an opportunity to "torture test" since I haven't had many super cold and wet overnight charge conditions. The few that I've had didn't require anything special. BTW, spraying Deoxit DN5 in the 240V NEMA 14-50 outlet made plugging and unplugging a snap. It used to be really difficult and now it's easy. I only had to apply it once.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  8. Halifax_NS

    Halifax_NS New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Halifax, Canada
    yeah, my point is really whether or not it's time to invest 70G into a car that doesn't have relatively minor things like this figured out. Seems like they've perfected a battery powered car without paying attention to fine details like this. A bit discouraging.
     
  9. Tz00

    Tz00 3 LR AWD

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    NB, Canada
    I exclusively park outdoors and have never had issues with the charging cable getting stuck. I've never used the emergency release. Tesla did replace the locking mechanism with an improved part specifically for frozen port issues. They did that on their own. I didn't request it.

    Prior to owning the car, I had some hesitations owning a Tesla in the Canadian winter, but there is nothing that makes me regret the purchase.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Mansley

    Mansley Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Hey there, I totally get it. I’m in Toronto and just had a car wash a few days ago in -10 degrees. Left the car overnight and the handles and windows were frozen. It’s sooo annoying to push a button on your app while in bed to warm the car... That’s such a small issue to worry about in the grand scheme of things. It’s happened ONCE in 9 months of owning the car and 25,000km and could probably happen in other cars.

    As for the charging port, a gas tank could freeze shut too. Also your hands get cold filling up gas all the time.

    At this time, my 2013 Nissan Altima had way more issues and cost me about $50/month less than my Model 3 factoring in all maintenance, gas, insurance, depreciation, etc... not to mention frostbite in -40 in Manitoba holding the stupid gas pump.

    I’ll never go back.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  11. Halifax_NS

    Halifax_NS New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2020
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Halifax, Canada

    love it.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. Space_CowBoy

    Space_CowBoy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Montreal
    I thought I saw a few videos on Youtube that indicated that the charge ports on 2021s are now heated. Or was that always the case? Picking up my M3 in a couple of weeks and am not too worried about this since I'll be parked in a heated garage.
     
  13. Mansley

    Mansley Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yes, they're heated. Lucky you get your 2021 M3. The heat pump is amazing. My Model Y has a heat pump and I notice a substantial difference over my Model 3 without one in the cold.

    You'll love it.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  14. Space_CowBoy

    Space_CowBoy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2020
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Montreal
    Thanks! I was wondering if the heat pump would make a difference. Since you're in TO, I'm guessing you see some efficiencies with consumption over 2020 and below M3 owners.
     
  15. Mansley

    Mansley Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Yes, it is a noticeable difference in range (approx 10-15%) with the heat pump in cold temperatures. And this is also factoring in battery size differences between my M3 SR+ and MY. The SR+ battery is much smaller, so it's impacted more in colder temperatures. I find it dropping 5-10% overnight if not plugged in depending on how cold it gets and then taking another 5-10% to warm up the battery.

    The heat pump in my Y really helps out in cold weather.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  16. zerb012345

    zerb012345 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2020
    Messages:
    127
    Location:
    Southeastern MA
    Hoping this is the correct thread to ask this.

    I took delivery of my 21 SR+ a few day ago on 12/12 and have Supercharged a few times now. Each time the speed has (seemingly) been slow at less than 30kw and only around 100-120 miles per hour. Each time I used navigation to precondition the battery, and the outside temperature has been between 30-45 degrees. Is this normal for the winter given the temperatures? At 150kw stations shouldn't the speeds be much higher?
     
    • Like x 1
  17. astrowunder

    astrowunder Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    455
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    If you have more than 50% remaining in your battery or if the battery is very cold, this can happen. The charge rate slows as the battery is filled.
     
    • Like x 2
  18. Mansley

    Mansley Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2019
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    think of supercharging like filling a bucket with a firehose... you’ll slow down as it gets full.

    also, preconditioning the battery helps a lot on your way to superchargers. I usually only start to supercharge my SR+ at between 10-30% and only usually up to 80 or 90%. It’s better for battery life and saves time.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. Neukwen

    Neukwen New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2020
    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    This is great news! We typically lose about 30% range in winter. Are you suggesting with the heat pump, the loss would be only 15%-20% on the same drive? Living in Manitoba, we are wondering about the value of a future upgrade to a new M3 with the heat pump.
     
  20. acarney

    acarney Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2019
    Messages:
    2,313
    Location:
    Richland, WA
    I wouldn’t get excited. I think you’ll see great efficiency out of the heat pump down to about 30F, but below that you’re going to be closer to a COP of 1 (resistance heating). [Ok, realistically the unit might have a COP of 1.5 to 1.8 around that temp, but because of the size of the system it likely won’t be able to supply the amount of heat to quickly warm the cabin just from collecting heat in the air so it’ll pull electricity from the pack to supplement] Heat pumps aren’t magic, there has to be sufficient heat in the air for it to concentrate and pump into the cabin, just like home heat pumps; most people have backup electric coils that run in very low temps (sub 30F). If you look at any chart of a home heat pump the BTU output usually is 50% of it’s rated amount down to maybe ~30% once outdoor temperatures are down to 20 to 30F.

    Now the Tesla system is a little more than just a heat pump. The system also connects all the electronics into the same heating loop. If the motors, battery, or inverter has waste heat from usage than the will get pumped away by the heat pump and added to the cabin. I think on “short” [maybe less than 30 miles) drives you won’t notice much of a difference since the battery will still be warming up and the motors and other electronics don’t produce THAT must extra heat, otherwise they wouldn’t be so efficient. In addition, low speed drives with a lot of sitting in traffic won’t be able to scavenge much heat from the motors since they won’t be running while not moving. Expect the heating system to operate approximately the same as the older Model 3 system.

    Now potentially on very long highway trips (75+ miles) the battery and electronics may get to a steady temperature that the heat pump is able to pull some heat from them and add it into the cabin. This is essentially free heat (you already used the energy for movement and heat was left over) so that will greatly improved the efficiency of the heating system.

    Also, the battery gets warm from charging, so if you usually need to do a fairly substantial charge every day (say 25%+) if you can do that RIGHT before you leave, you’ll have “stored” heat in the battery as a byproduct of charging (the energy came from your wall) which is “free” heat for the cabin. But if you complete the charge at 2am and don’t depart till 8am, you won’t see this gain.

    If you usually charge the moment you get home at 6pm and the charge is done by 8pm and you leave every morning at 7am for your 5 miles to work... don’t expect much or any improvement when temperatures drop to 30F or below. If you used 350 Wh/mi for the 5 miles to work (1.7kWh) in the 3 with resistance heating, don’t expect to suddenly use 245 Wh/mi (1.2kWh) with the heat pump.

    Don’t get me wrong, it is an AMAZING system and engineered really well, but it isn’t magic. The fact is there isn’t a giant inefficient part of the car that just spews out wasted energy as heat, so the car barely has any heat to collect other than from the air. On long drives to maintain the loss of heat from the cabin to the outside the heat pump capacity might be able to keep up just from pulling from the air and might be COP of 1.5 to 1.8 (1kW in produces 1.5 to 1.8 kW worth of heat) but on shorter drives where you have to warm all that air up to a comfortable temp, expect about the same as the resistance heater.
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC