Winter driving advice, winter tire choices, etc.

[nicholb]

Anyone have any adverse experience of aero covers in winter?

I had no problems with snow build up last year in Minnesota.

 

[MrBadger]

and even then AC charging will be reduced and 6kW will be redirected to the battery heater.

Does Model 3 have battery heater other than pre conditioning when in motion?

 

[jdw]

Yes, as far as I know the Model 3 can generate 3.5kW worth of heat per motor/inverter while parked and can probably "run hot" when driving.

 

[EVSmartParts]

nicholb, Oct 11, 2019 Good call when you say : " If you do get them, you'll have much better stopping and turning ability in cold/icy conditions. AWD will help you get going, but only the tires will help with stopping and turning." you are 100 percent on the mark. This has been my experience over the many years of driving in the North East. Even if my ice and snow tires only keep me 1/8" from a telephone pole or car or pedestrian, they are worth their weight in gold.
Some of my tips are:
How to apply silicone spray to door seals and trunk seals: I dampen a soft cloth with spray silicone then wipe down all sealing surfaces on the car. I wipe down the long seal at the back bottom of the rear window. Keep that area clear of ice because it can prevent the trunk lid from closing all the way.

Because winter tires throw or "paddle" up more of whats on the road...sand, gravel..rock salt etc I install low hanging mud flaps...usually flexible ones. There are low and wide flexible ones on Tesla Owners Club of New York. inconspicuous from the side. I'll leave them on year round because of the grit that my summer tires will kick up.

MrFusion, great points and questions. I carry a tow strap in case I need to get pulled from a ditch. In the past I had plastic and cable tire chains (not really chains). Long time ago on Rt 17 Westbound in the winter I was caught up in a giant traffic jam that stopped both east and westbound traffic on the very high mountain road at Wurtsboro NY. Thick black ice...nobody was moving lots of cars in center divider ditch. I slapped on reinforced tire chains and was the only car able to drive higher up on the mountain where I could do a U turn through the unplowed center divider. I drove past a couple 100 cars on the way to the u turn and on the way down to the warmer and melted area. Huge mess but I returned to my brother's house 2 hrs after leaving his house for my home in Syracuse.

 

[one true morty]

Since there are probably a lot of people heading into their first winter with a Model 3 I thought I'd start a tip thread.

I have a LR RWD which I got July '18. I've driven it through one Minnesota winter. Here's a few things from my experience.

• Preheat. In cold weather it helps to turn on climate control while you are getting ready in the morning. This allows the car to use wall power rather than battery power to heat up the interior. It also warms the battery pack some.
• Reduced Regen. When the car has sat overnight in any temps below about 60F you'll notice some regen limitation. This is shown by the dots in the upper left on the power bar. The colder it is the more dots you will have and less regenerative braking. As the battery warms up you'll get back some or all of the dots. In sub zero weather you'll probably not be able to get all of them back. Be prepared as it is sometime a bit of a shock when you let up on the pedal and the car does not slow down as expected.
• Winter Tires. You'll find many threads on winter tires and which are good. In short, winter tires are no more or less necessary then on any other car. If you don't usually need winter tires then you may not on the Model 3. If you do get them, you'll have much better stopping and turning ability in cold/icy conditions. AWD will help you get going, but only the tires will help with stopping and turning. Last winter I used the stock 18" aero tires and had no more or less problems then previous cars. I can say the car is very smart about recovering from any slips. This year I plan on getting winter tires for the added safety.
• Chill mode and low regen. Tesla recommends you put the car in chill mode and low regen for slippery conditions. I did try that last year and quickly went back to normal settings. For one, in cold weather you already have reduced regen so setting it to low did nothing much. As for chill mode, I find I can easily modulate my acceleration for the conditions and don't really need the car restricting me. If you are having trouble, you may want to give those a try for yourself.
• Handling. The car is very good at handling wheel slip. It will accelerate without spinning the wheels. (there is a mode to allow slip if you need it to get unstuck) It is also quite good at recovering from back end slide outs. I found the RWD has a tendency to slide out a bit when starting an acceleration on ice. The first time it does it you think you are going to spin out, but it pulls itself back to straight almost before you can react. I have not driven the an AWD so I'll let someone else post how that handles.
• Reduced Range. Depending on the temperature you will have some range reduction. I would say most of the winter it was in the order of 20-30%. We had a couple days around -30F and range reduction was closer to 50% at that extreme cold. One of the biggest hits to your range is the cabin heat. If possible preheat while you are still plugged in. If you really need the range, use the seat heaters rather than the cabin heat. They require less power. The other factors are cold batteries and reduced regen. Some people have found that timing your nightly charging so that it finishes right before you leave in the morning will allow you to start with a warmer battery pack and give you more of your normal range back. People tend to dwell on reduced winter range as a drawback to BEV, but ICE cars also have reduced range in the winter.
• Defrost. The front window defrost has two settings. On the first press the icon turn blue and it directs cabin temperature air to the front window. On the second press the icon turns red and it directs full heat to the front window. I wish there was something in between. During snow storms the first setting is not enough to keep the window clean and the second setting is like having a hair dryer pointed at your face. Turning up the cabin temp does help the first setting.
• Instant heat. One of the very nice things about electric heat is that you don't have to wait for an engine to warm up before you get nice warm air coming from the vents.
• Sticking Charger Plug. In damp freezing conditions it is possible for the charging plug to get stuck and not release from the car. Tesla did put out an update last winter to help with that. If it does happen to you there is a release pull inside the trunk directly behind the charging port.
• Frozen door handles. I only had this happen once. I washed the car on a warmer day and did not dry the handles well enough. It took some determined pushing to get them to open. If you do have a situation where the handles are wet and you know you'll have freezing temp overnight, make sure you dry the handles off.

If you have any more tips, please add them to the thread.

Something I would add (sorry if anyone else did) is to make sure you clean the snow off BEFORE you turn the heat on. If the car is outside and not in a garage and it is cold out the snow will melt and can refreeze in all of the cracks of the doors and charge port. I found this out the hard way and then had to very carefully chip the ice away and turn the heat up as high as it would go to melt the charge port. When I called about the charge port getting frozen they recommended putting the seats down and turning the heat all of the way up as well.

I don't have a garage and plan on putting up a temporary structure till we can get one built next year.

 

[MRGEDU]

I found a set of wheels and tires for winter sticking to my goal of around $1000. I didn’t want 20” wheels, but I also didn’t want spacers and few wheel resellers could guarantee clearance of the brakes. Since they will only be on 3 - 4 months, they should be fine.

 

[Feathermerchan]

RE questions about pack heating while driving. I drove to Waco yesterday and approaching the Supercharger in Waco, I got a notification thet the battery was being preconditioned for Supercharging. I noticed NO increase in WH/mi so I think the car was routing heat from the drive unit(s) to the battery or just closing the radiator shutters so the battery warmed up more.

 

[StealthP3D]

Then I'll be more explicit for you: your plating savings from L2 charging are at best a rounding error compared to the plating from driving in cold weather. And missing out on gentle battery warming before you drive is not doing your battery any favors. I suspect quite the opposite

I haven't seen any evidence suggesting that driving with a cold battery causes excessive plating. It's true that cold batteries can't supply as much current but Tesla further limits the current draw with a cold battery so as not to cause undue degradation. If your trip is short it's incredibly wasteful to heat the battery before the short drive and if your trip is longer it will heat up gradually anyway by scavenging heat from the computers, traction motors and drive inverters.

 

[Manhammer]

I’m in a similar situation. The Continental tires were on sale but very few stores had them. I landed on Michelin XI3 for $267 per. Canadian Tire didn’t have steel wheels so I ordered them from Quebec for $89 per.
Has anyone heard you need to be in service mode in order to take wheels off and need a code?

 

[Manhammer]

I’m in a similar situation. After shopping around I found Michelin XI’s for $250 per tire at Canadian Tire. They didn’t have Standard steel wheels in 18” so I found some in Quebec for $89 per.

Canadian Tire said some new Tesla’s ask for a service mode code to take wheels off. Is this true? How do I get the code?

 

[mswlogo]

I’m in a similar situation. After shopping around I found Michelin XI’s for $250 per tire at Canadian Tire. They didn’t have Standard steel wheels in 18” so I found some in Quebec for $89 per.

Canadian Tire said some new Tesla’s ask for a service mode code to take wheels off. Is this true? How do I get the code?

Don’t put crappy steel wheels on a Tesla.

Find some take offs. You’ll get a set of tires with them that essentially make wheels cheaper. Don’t forget TPMS.

You don’t need a service code. He might be referring to disabling remote access/summon. You can do that manually if that is a concern.

 

[pcons]

I’m in a similar situation. The Continental tires were on sale but very few stores had them. I landed on Michelin XI3 for $267 per. Canadian Tire didn’t have steel wheels so I ordered them from Quebec for $89 per.
Has anyone heard you need to be in service mode in order to take wheels off and need a code?

No need to be in service mode for tire swap.

 

[moorej999]

Don’t put crappy steel wheels on a Tesla.

Find some take offs. You’ll get a set of tires with them that essentially make wheels cheaper. Don’t forget TPMS.

You don’t need a service code. He might be referring to disabling remote access/summon. You can do that manually if that is a concern.

Crapy Steel? Musc loves steal for his BFR. My point is, explaining why you think steel is crapy would be nice.

 

[SageBrush]

RE questions about pack heating while driving. I drove to Waco yesterday and approaching the Supercharger in Waco, I got a notification thet the battery was being preconditioned for Supercharging. I noticed NO increase in WH/mi so I think the car was routing heat from the drive unit(s) to the battery or just closing the radiator shutters so the battery warmed up more.

I'll bet the heating behavior is also pretty trivial in coastal CA and HI

 

[SageBrush]

I haven't seen any evidence

LOL

Plating at cold temperatures from charging is not in dispute, and regen is charging. The details however matter: how much, how much is reversible, and the relationship to temperature, current level and voltage.

 

[raviman8]

I was looking for similar feedback and in short I have decided to purchase and install HAKKAPELIITTA R3 (18") from Kal Tire. Crazy expensive, IMO, $2700 with the sensors, rims and tires.... jeez.

but i did not want to spend the same to get IMO a lower grade tire from Tesla, (PIRELLI WINTER SOTTOZERO)

 

[mswlogo]

Crapy Steel? Musc loves steal for his BFR. My point is, explaining why you think steel is crapy would be nice.

What are you going to put on them, Walmart hubcaps? Or you just gonna leave them bare black spray paint? The hubcaps will lose there paint in a few years too. The rims rust in about 4 years. I ran Steel for decades. They are just awful. Never again.

I bought take offs for $1100 with “new” tires and TPMS. The Tires and TPMS are worth more than $1100. Essentially get the rims for free. Also you can run Aero covers for max range, which you will want when it’s cold.

It’s cheaper in the long run to buy take offs, looks nicer, lasts longer, more efficient.

 

[jdw]

The evidence for lithium plating is in the SOC & charging limits placed on 85kWh batteries recently, possibly related to the fires in Hong Kong, several Battery University articles and the fact that Tesla progressively restricts charging when the battery is cold. The measurable symptoms of plating include higher internal resistance in the cells and consequently more heating of the cells at high rates of charge, along with capacity loss. Worst case is a spontaneous battery fire, possibly from lithium dendrites shorting the cell.

Tesla does take pretty good care of the battery in this regard, but the downgrading of the 85 packs reinforced to me that it would be good to be even more conservative with regards to cold weather charging, where by cold weather, I mean extended parking below freezing.

No one really knows for sure as no one (other than Tesla likely) has taken apart an older battery and examined the cells to verify whether or not this is an issue for Tesla batteries. We do know it can be an issue for off the shelf lithium batteries.

 

[StealthP3D]

LOL

Plating at cold temperatures from charging is not in dispute, and regen is charging. The details however matter: how much, how much is reversible, and the relationship to temperature, current level and voltage.

Tesla limits regen to the appropriate level depending upon temperature. That's why it goes away almost completely at very cold temperatures. That's also why there is no reason not to drive on a cold battery from a battery longevity standpoint. For a short trip, it's actually better for the battery to stay cold. Driving at those temperatures is all discharge, no regen, no recharge. If the battery is cold but warm enough to handle low charge rates, then Tesla allows low charge rates (some regen).

But the driver doesn't need to concern themselves with this type of esoteric battery information because Tesla has coded it all into their smart battery management system. Just get in and drive, Tesla takes care of the battery, cold or hot. Thinking you know more about it than Tesla can actually cause you to do silly things that are counterproductive (like saving some charging for the early morning hours). Best to just get all the winter charging done at once when the battery is already warm from driving it.

 

[SageBrush]

That's why it goes away almost completely at very cold temperatures.

The key point here is how much is almost.
If almost is the same as L2 at home then the other benefits of starting off with a warm(er) battery can be enjoyed, such as higher power and more efficient energy consumption during the drive since the car will spend less energy actively heating the battery.

One might also presume that Tesla applies the same charging protections to regen that it does to L2 at home.

The true cognoscenti in cold climates may choose to set L2 power at a rate that continues throughout the night so that the battery does not cool down excessively and charging is complete by the AM. I don't know whether if matters as far as plating is concerned but I cannot think of a downside for the car.