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Max range reduction - side effect of weather or a real issue?

mcfuzz89

Member
Mar 15, 2019
63
18
CA Bay Area
Hi all,

Starting with software version 2019.32.2.1, I have started seeing a steady decline of maximum battery capacity. I started at 310 miles and currently am at 299 - which is about a 3.5% reduction with only 7800 miles on the car. I originally thought that it may have been related to weather, but despite the recent (and unusually) warm weather in the Bay Area, my LR AWD is still trending down.

I reached out to Tesla support who ran a battery diagnostic on my car and claimed no issues. I also asked them what my maximum range should be - 310 or the newer rating of 322; they confirmed I should be at 322 (I now have 2019.36.2.1) - so if we base that as the max, I've now lost 7.2%.

Tesla support also suggested I do 3 cycles of charging to 100% and discharging to 10% - compared to a coworker who's SR+ has a different issue (full charge says 250 miles, he will drive 100 and will have only 50-60 left) and was recommended to charge to 90% every night for 4 weeks. They claim that this may reset the range indicator and when I pressed about what if it does not, the response was "meh."

So I have the following questions:
  • Should I bother doing the 100% to 10% cycles?

  • Any of you who has had their car go through previous winter (especially in the CA Bay Area), have you experienced the same issue where the range drops and then comes back up with the warmer weather?

  • Has anyone with a LR AWD observed a 322 range on full (or thereabouts) charge with 2019.36.2.1?
Thanks!
 

gecko10x

Member
Jan 22, 2018
265
163
WV
What is your typical usage and charge level?

I would NOT do 100-10 cycles. Depending on what your answer is to the above question, I may suggest attempting to change things up, but I would avoid 100% unless required.
 

Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,605
8,766
Palmdale, CA
Any of you who has had their car go through previous winter (especially in the CA Bay Area), have you experienced the same issue where the range drops and then comes back up with the warmer weather?

I am not Bay Area, but am in CA and have been thru 2 winters with my 3. My rated range does not vary with weather. My wh/mile does, but that is entirely different.

Rated range is based on a constant, so if it is going down you are seeing degradation, poor balance in the BMS or Tesla is mucking with it behind the scenes. My LR RWD went from 324 down to 308 after a software update, but after 2 100% charges I am back up to 315.

Charging to 90% for a while isnt a bad idea. I dont know that I would bother with the 100% to 10% cycles. You could try a 100% charge just to see, but I wouldn't bother getting it down to 10%
 
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mcfuzz89

Member
Mar 15, 2019
63
18
CA Bay Area
What is your typical usage and charge level?

I would NOT do 100-10 cycles. Depending on what your answer is to the above question, I may suggest attempting to change things up, but I would avoid 100% unless required.

Normally, I charge to 81% which gave me about 250 miles (244 now). I commute 27 miles one way and charge at work at 5 mph (120v) for anywhere from 6-8 hours. The commute back home the same 27 miles. My commute to work averages anywhere from 200-240 w/h and home its anywhere from 280-330 (downhill vs uphill).
 

Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,605
8,766
Palmdale, CA
Normally, I charge to 81% which gave me about 250 miles (244 now). I commute 27 miles one way and charge at work at 5 mph (120v) for anywhere from 6-8 hours. The commute back home the same 27 miles. My commute to work averages anywhere from 200-240 w/h and home its anywhere from 280-330 (downhill vs uphill).

I would stop charging at work for a while. You aren't letting the battery drain much at all if this is what you do daily. (Re-read your post: are you charging at home too?)
 
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mcfuzz89

Member
Mar 15, 2019
63
18
CA Bay Area
I would stop charging at work for a while. You aren't letting the battery drain much at all if this is what you do daily. (Re-read your post: are you charging at home too?)

I do charge at home but only when I almost empty - so basically with about 15% (45 miles) of range left. At that point, I charge to 81%.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,362
3,071
Maine
Hi all,

Starting with software version 2019.32.2.1, I have started seeing a steady decline of maximum battery capacity. I started at 310 miles and currently am at 299 - which is about a 3.5% reduction with only 7800 miles on the car. I originally thought that it may have been related to weather, but despite the recent (and unusually) warm weather in the Bay Area, my LR AWD is still trending down.

I reached out to Tesla support who ran a battery diagnostic on my car and claimed no issues. I also asked them what my maximum range should be - 310 or the newer rating of 322; they confirmed I should be at 322 (I now have 2019.36.2.1) - so if we base that as the max, I've now lost 7.2%.

Tesla support also suggested I do 3 cycles of charging to 100% and discharging to 10% - compared to a coworker who's SR+ has a different issue (full charge says 250 miles, he will drive 100 and will have only 50-60 left) and was recommended to charge to 90% every night for 4 weeks. They claim that this may reset the range indicator and when I pressed about what if it does not, the response was "meh."

So I have the following questions:
  • Should I bother doing the 100% to 10% cycles?

  • Any of you who has had their car go through previous winter (especially in the CA Bay Area), have you experienced the same issue where the range drops and then comes back up with the warmer weather?

  • Has anyone with a LR AWD observed a 322 range on full (or thereabouts) charge with 2019.36.2.1?
Thanks!
My answers, no, no, no.

One, your range drop is still quite small, so not something to get too excited about. About 35% of LR-AWD users, of the Stats app, show 300 miles of rated range after 8k miles. So, you're below average, but not by much.

Here's a histogram chart from Stats:
battery_violin_1.png


I would try changing up your charging routine. Perhaps, stop charging on 120v at work, and maybe try charging up to 70% or less, than your current 81%.
 
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Az_Rael

Supporting Member
Jan 26, 2016
5,605
8,766
Palmdale, CA
I do charge at home but only when I almost empty - so basically with about 15% (45 miles) of range left. At that point, I charge to 81%.

Gotcha, then I would try the 90% for a while or even a 100%. I gained 7 miles just doing 2 100% charges within 2.5 weeks of each other.
 

Twiglett

Single pedal driver
Oct 3, 2014
2,737
2,662
Austin
I've been charging to 90% for the past year. Just got 36.2.1 and started using the "finish charging at" rather than "start charging at" option
Starting with 32.2.1 my battery report on TeslaFI was a nice steady 309ish
Once I got 32.12.2 it starting varying quite a lot between 309-306
Now I have 36.2.1 it first dropped to 302

I'm just going to keep monitoring, its only been two days on this release and a change in charging, so I'll see what happens
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,362
3,071
Maine
Hrm - so @KenC above recommended to charge to a lesser state and @Az_Rael recommends to do 90% or even up to 100%...

What is the truuuuuuuuuuth?!?!?! :p
Actually, I recommended changing your routine. But, since you mentioned you charge to 81% and only have a 27 mile one-way commute, I thought trying "70% or less". Change is the key, since that seems to have helped some people with BMS drift errors.
 
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mcfuzz89

Member
Mar 15, 2019
63
18
CA Bay Area
Actually, I recommended changing your routine. But, since you mentioned you charge to 81% and only have a 27 mile one-way commute, I thought trying "70% or less". Change is the key, since that seems to have helped some people with BMS drift errors.

Fair enough - I'll give it a shot!
 

Sherlo

Member
Feb 13, 2019
348
393
SF Bay Area
LR AWD purchased in Nov 18 with 9k (2019.36.2.1). Not sure about the 322 range as I’ve never been higher than 310. In July/August I saw a slow decline from 309 to 298. Wasn’t too concerned but decided to change my charging habits. Before (the decline) I would usually charge at most a couple times a week up to 80% once it got down to around 30%.

Set the max at 60% and after a few charge cycles it came back up to 308 where it has remained. It stepped up 2-3 miles each time.
Most recent charge was up to 90% for a road trip and it still showed 308.

Cannot say for sure that the change to 60% was the reason but just thought I’d share my experience.
 

VQTRVA

Member
Mar 13, 2019
451
477
CVA
Like vein to OP, have been charging my 3D to ~80% at home & seen range gone down to 235 miles from usual 244 prior to software: 2019.32.2.1.

But I recognized that battery monitoring system is a lot like an ICE car's odometer range display - it's never 100% accurate.
So I never cared about it before & I certainly don't care about it now. esp. when there are more than enough evidence to show varying how much I put in affects the max range estimate I get.

That sounds a lot like how much gas I used to put into an ICE & the range estimates were never the same.
 

sa012

Member
Nov 7, 2019
190
46
Central CT
LR AWD purchased in Nov 18 with 9k (2019.36.2.1). Not sure about the 322 range as I’ve never been higher than 310. In July/August I saw a slow decline from 309 to 298. Wasn’t too concerned but decided to change my charging habits. Before (the decline) I would usually charge at most a couple times a week up to 80% once it got down to around 30%.

Set the max at 60% and after a few charge cycles it came back up to 308 where it has remained. It stepped up 2-3 miles each time.
Most recent charge was up to 90% for a road trip and it still showed 308.

Cannot say for sure that the change to 60% was the reason but just thought I’d share my experience.

Thanks for the info. Maybe I will try your idea out. Couple more questions about your new charging habits:

1.) Are you plugging right in when you get home?
2.) At home are you using a slow long charge or a fast quick charge up to 60%?

Thanks in advance.
 

Sherlo

Member
Feb 13, 2019
348
393
SF Bay Area
Thanks for the info. Maybe I will try your idea out. Couple more questions about your new charging habits:

1.) Are you plugging right in when you get home?
2.) At home are you using a slow long charge or a fast quick charge up to 60%?

Thanks in advance.

Good questions:
No, I’m not plugging in daily. Just charging a couple times a week once it gets down around 25-30% with 30A. I considered charging daily but don’t really have much of a daily commute.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,362
3,071
Maine
For those with BMS drift errors, changing up your charging routine, oftentimes helps bring the BMS back in line, that's why it's suggested.

From what I've read, the SC likes to recommend charging up to 100% and then running the battery down to 10%, or something along those lines, and doing it a few times in a row. I prefer just changing your charging SOC limit by 10% or more, as a first attempt at getting the BMS to fix itself. So, if you're charging to 90%, change your routine to 80% or 70%. And if you're charging up to 80%, change your routine to 70 or 90%. The stories of what has and hasn't worked seems quite random, the only constant seems to be changing your charging routine.

For those with true degradation, changing up your routine, can't bring back your battery capacity, but you may be able to slow future degradation, by going to a more conservative charge limit. 3.92V is supposedly optimal, no cracking or plating of cathodes, so something around 60%. But that may not be practical, so choose the minimum charge limit that works for your normal commute, whether it's 70% or 80%. Anything higher should be saved for longer trips.

YMMV, as I am definitely not a battery expert, but that's what I've observed in a year of looking at these threads.
 
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