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Maximum charge level for daily use

hcdavis3

HCD3
Mar 3, 2019
1,836
1,069
02571
While you could be right, you're just assuming.

And that's fine you have your opinion.

For all we know anything past 75% is bad for the long-term life of the battery.. or anything under 95% is fine.

There not enough data to prove or disprove either way.
Rocky is always right...period.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,131
7,139
Boise, ID
OMG.
While you could be right, you're just assuming.
Uh, no. I'm not.
And that's fine you have your opinion.
This is not "opinion". This is about known scientific data on the characteristics and behavior of lithium ion batteries.
For all we know anything past 75% is bad for the long-term life of the battery..
Yes it is.
or anything under 95% is fine.
No, it's not.
There not enough data to prove or disprove either way.
Actually, there is. There is enough data from thousands of studies of lithium ion batteries and their charging behavior. You are welcome to check out as much of it as you like.

There is not any exact point where it's like flipping a switch where above that point is "bad" and below that point is "good" or vice versa. It is a continuous scaling effect and is not linear. So the closer it is toward the top and bottom ends, the more extreme the effect is. So that first 5% down from the 100% maximum has a really big long term effect of reducing the worst of the degradation. That next 5% down, still significant, but less so. The next 5% even less, etc. So these questions of setting your max limit to 90% or 80% or 70% or whatever all involve moving toward a middle state of charge, which is helpful for the long term health of the battery, but that also needs to be balanced with people's practical need to drive the car, so you need to keep it high enough to have useful range for you. Each person gets to pick whatever balanced point works for them.
 

Young Phenom

Member
Mar 21, 2020
321
282
Florida
OMG.

Uh, no. I'm not.

This is not "opinion". This is about known scientific data on the characteristics and behavior of lithium ion batteries.

Yes it is.

No, it's not.

Actually, there is. There is enough data from thousands of studies of lithium ion batteries and their charging behavior. You are welcome to check out as much of it as you like.

There is not any exact point where it's like flipping a switch where above that point is "bad" and below that point is "good" or vice versa. It is a continuous scaling effect and is not linear. So the closer it is toward the top and bottom ends, the more extreme the effect is. So that first 5% down from the 100% maximum has a really big long term effect of reducing the worst of the degradation. That next 5% down, still significant, but less so. The next 5% even less, etc. So these questions of setting your max limit to 90% or 80% or 70% or whatever all involve moving toward a middle state of charge, which is helpful for the long term health of the battery, but that also needs to be balanced with people's practical need to drive the car, so you need to keep it high enough to have useful range for you. Each person gets to pick whatever balanced point works for them.

It is your opinion that people should or shouldn't charge to whatever percent makes you feel smart. Elon and the Manufacturer are good with up to 90% daily. Anything you say beyond that is just noise. If the battery was at risk or failure or long term issues then the suggested daily charge would reflect lower.

You have too much time on your hands to not post actual data and weirdly assume that I I know nothing and you do. Uninformed people know that batteries degrade with usage and time, everything you said is not new information.

Feel free to forward that data to Tesla and Elon while you're at it since you are the expert in the matter, then we would all benefit from your knowledge.

If you're worried about battery degradation and feel the need to try to argue with people on the internet about it then maybe you're driving the wrong car.

Oh btw

Screenshot_20200707-180805.png
 
Last edited:

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,131
7,139
Boise, ID
You have a really bad attitude about this and seem to want to be angry and insulting. I am telling you what the scientific data says about this. If you disagree or don't like what the information says, you are welcome to read up on it.

It is your opinion that people should or shouldn't charge to whatever percent makes you feel smart.
No--I already told you. This is not my opinion.
Elon and the Manufacturer are good with up to 90% daily. Anything you say beyond that is just noise. If the battery was at risk or failure or long term issues then the suggested daily charge would reflect lower.
Interestingly enough, Elon Musk and Jeff Dahn, the world renowned expert in lithium ion batteries who works for Tesla now DO recommend lower than 90%! Citation:
Tesla battery expert recommends daily charging limit to optimize durability - Electrek
Tesla Battery Expert's Recommendation For Maximum Battery Life - Video
Quote from Musk when asked about recommended charging range: "80% to 30%"
Quote from Jeff Dahn: "I would recommend charging to 70% normally. When you need a long trip, charge to 100%."

And other sources:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's the truth behind the biggest (and dumbest) battery myths | WIRED UK
Fast charging of lithium-ion batteries at all temperatures
Lithium-ion degradation at varying discharge rates - ScienceDirect
http://css.umich.edu/sites/default/files/publication/CSS20-08.pdf


You have too much time on your hands to not post actual data and weirdly assume that I I know nothing and you do. Uninformed people know that batteries degrade with usage and time, everything you said is not new information.
Pardon for not posting links to citations before. I didn't make any such assumptions. Stop being insulting and putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

Feel free to forward that data to Tesla and Elon while you're at it since you are the expert in the matter, then we would all benefit from your knowledge.
They already have all of this information, as shown by Musk recommending lower than 90%. It is very common knowledge; not "my knowledge".

If you're worried about battery degradation and feel the need to try to argue with people on the internet about it then maybe you're driving the wrong car.
1. I am not worried about degradation. It is a fact of life, and I have found a pretty comfortable balance for me around 70-80%.
2. I don't feel a need to argue with people on the internet. I don't appreciate seeing people spreading misinformation, though. You just flat out said Tesla recommends 90%. I filled in more detail of why that was a partial answer that is used by sales people, but if the experts within Tesla are asked for more details, they will readily tell people that it is not ideal. It was then you who got mad and started arguing.

I'm just giving detailed and accurate answers for people who are asking questions and want to know how this works. This is why Tesla has the charging screen interface set up with the "Daily" section available from 50% to 90%, with letting people choose where is a good fit for them.
 

Young Phenom

Member
Mar 21, 2020
321
282
Florida
You have a really bad attitude about this and seem to want to be angry and insulting. I am telling you what the scientific data says about this. If you disagree or don't like what the information says, you are welcome to read up on it.


No--I already told you. This is not my opinion.

Interestingly enough, Elon Musk and Jeff Dahn, the world renowned expert in lithium ion batteries who works for Tesla now DO recommend lower than 90%! Citation:
Tesla battery expert recommends daily charging limit to optimize durability - Electrek
Tesla Battery Expert's Recommendation For Maximum Battery Life - Video
Quote from Musk when asked about recommended charging range: "80% to 30%"
Quote from Jeff Dahn: "I would recommend charging to 70% normally. When you need a long trip, charge to 100%."

And other sources:
How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University
Here's the truth behind the biggest (and dumbest) battery myths | WIRED UK
Fast charging of lithium-ion batteries at all temperatures
Lithium-ion degradation at varying discharge rates - ScienceDirect
http://css.umich.edu/sites/default/files/publication/CSS20-08.pdf



Pardon for not posting links to citations before. I didn't make any such assumptions. Stop being insulting and putting words in my mouth that I did not say.


They already have all of this information, as shown by Musk recommending lower than 90%. It is very common knowledge; not "my knowledge".


1. I am not worried about degradation. It is a fact of life, and I have found a pretty comfortable balance for me around 70-80%.
2. I don't feel a need to argue with people on the internet. I don't appreciate seeing people spreading misinformation, though. You just flat out said Tesla recommends 90%. I filled in more detail of why that was a partial answer that is used by sales people, but if the experts within Tesla are asked for more details, they will readily tell people that it is not ideal. It was then you who got mad and started arguing.

My comment that got you irritated and is somehow considered misinformation now by you, is Tesla recommends Charging to no more than 90% daily. Elon even says 95% is fine. But hey, you definitely are the expert so maybe he's wrong and Rocky H on a forum is right.

My post , which is still accurate btw.

All the other stuff you are posting is just noise.

See below. It's not a big deal.

Screenshot_20200707-180805.png
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,131
7,139
Boise, ID
And I saw where you just added quotes from Musk saying "it's not a big deal" and "you'll be fine" about charging to 90%.
Do you notice what that wording is like? That is more marketing speak. He is trying to reassure people to not worry and be paranoid if they feel they are going to break something by charging to 90% if they do need to charge it that high to have the amount of range they want.

He is well aware that using 90% as a daily limit will have faster degradation than lower limits, but he is having to combat the biggest resistance and fears in the public about EVs. Range, range, & range. Most of the public is skeptical about electric cars having short range, so it would be detrimental to Tesla's image to go around announcing recommendations to only charge to 70 or 80% frequently. There would be a lot of "told you so" and criticism from the public and naysayers. So they stick with generally reassuring people that 90% is generally OK, even if it's certainly not ideal.
 

Young Phenom

Member
Mar 21, 2020
321
282
Florida
And I saw where you just added quotes from Musk saying "it's not a big deal" and "you'll be fine" about charging to 90%.
Do you notice what that wording is like? That is more marketing speak. He is trying to reassure people to not worry and be paranoid if they feel they are going to break something by charging to 90% if they do need to charge it that high to have the amount of range they want.

He is well aware that using 90% as a daily limit will have faster degradation than lower limits, but he is having to combat the biggest resistance and fears in the public about EVs. Range, range, & range. Most of the public is skeptical about electric cars having short range, so it would be detrimental to Tesla's image to go around announcing recommendations to only charge to 70 or 80% frequently. There would be a lot of "told you so" and criticism from the public and naysayers. So they stick with generally reassuring people that 90% is generally OK, even if it's certainly not ideal.
Wow.

Maybe it is all a conspiracy and marking after all...


Lmao.

Btw, I'd charge to 75 daily if that's what the recommended maximum daily charge is, but it's not.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,131
7,139
Boise, ID
My comment that got you irritated and is somehow considered misinformation now by you, is Tesla recommends Charging to no more than 90% daily.
Ah, so you've added moving the goalposts now. That is not what you originally said:
90% as that is what Tesla recommends.
If you had started off saying "no more than 90%", I never would have even said anything.
 

Young Phenom

Member
Mar 21, 2020
321
282
Florida
Ah, so you've added moving the goalposts now. That is not what you originally said:

If you had started off saying "no more than 90%", I never would have even said anything.

The intent was the same. Tesla only recommends one two things, no more than 90% for daily, which is what my post reflects and don't let the battery hit 0%. You chose to take it the way you did which after having one conversation with you , is entirely not surprising lmao.

And somehow I doubt you go through life saying " if only he or she said this then I wouldn't have said anything"
 

Wennfred

Supporting Member
Apr 4, 2019
2,933
1,840
San Diego
90% daily charge and this is why, I live in California which is home of the earthquakes. You should always prepare to have a good charge just Incase of a power outage. Note that even the Gas Stations are also down due to no power. But you can store a few gallons of fuel in the garage. Where as the EV don’t have that option.

Tesla also was nice enough to extend the range when we had those hurricanes on the East Coast mainly Florida and up the coast. If you’re in one of these locations whether Hurricane season or Earthquakes you should be prepared and have plenty of juice left in the tank to get the heck out of town.

Fred
 

artnalex

Member
May 31, 2020
202
130
Los Angeles
The most recent public commentary (2019) I saw from Elon Musk said OK to charge daily up to 90-95%. Just not to 100%. Not sure I need all that, but good to know.
 

Impaler

'20 MY LR Black/Black, 20" induction w/FSD
Jul 5, 2020
297
132
USA
I am trying to figure out my charging strategy, so the comments have been helpful. I commute 2x/week, for about 100 miles round trip. I did my first one yesterday, and I started with 85%, and was only down to 55% when I got home. I think I'll keep it around 70-75% during the week and max out when I'm headed somewhere more distanced.
 

Porkchop205

New Member
Jul 5, 2020
3
5
Alabama
Hello friends,

What have you set as the maximum charge level for short daily commutes?

I am having trouble doing anything but selecting an arbitrary level based on... nothing.

Has anyone done any testing or research to determine an ideal maximum charge level?
I use 80% to conserve battery life. Interested in any experiments by seasoned users
 

Wennfred

Supporting Member
Apr 4, 2019
2,933
1,840
San Diego
Currently the battery life is rated at 500,000 miles, that’s way more miles then I ever put on any Ice car I have owned, on average 300,000 miles if that and it’s time to replace the car. I understand that at 300,000 miles on an Ice Engine and it’s time to replace the engine.

I charge to 90% every night. I’m in California which is home of Earthquake city. You need the 90% charge just Incase we lose power due to a schedule power outage or an Earthquake which could shutdown power plants as before. Note that Gas Stations are also out of commission during a power outage.

It’s been known that charging at 80% or lower will cause a mis-balancing of the battery and will start to show a lower range on the screen.

The car has been happy at 90% nightly. That’s my take.

Fred
 

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