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Maximum charge level for daily use
- Thread starter dhoonlee
- Start date
OMG.
There is not any exact point where it's like flipping a switch where above that point is "bad" and below that point is "good" or vice versa. It is a continuous scaling effect and is not linear. So the closer it is toward the top and bottom ends, the more extreme the effect is. So that first 5% down from the 100% maximum has a really big long term effect of reducing the worst of the degradation. That next 5% down, still significant, but less so. The next 5% even less, etc. So these questions of setting your max limit to 90% or 80% or 70% or whatever all involve moving toward a middle state of charge, which is helpful for the long term health of the battery, but that also needs to be balanced with people's practical need to drive the car, so you need to keep it high enough to have useful range for you. Each person gets to pick whatever balanced point works for them.
Uh, no. I'm not.
This is not "opinion". This is about known scientific data on the characteristics and behavior of lithium ion batteries.
Yes it is.
No, it's not.
Actually, there is. There is enough data from thousands of studies of lithium ion batteries and their charging behavior. You are welcome to check out as much of it as you like.
There is not any exact point where it's like flipping a switch where above that point is "bad" and below that point is "good" or vice versa. It is a continuous scaling effect and is not linear. So the closer it is toward the top and bottom ends, the more extreme the effect is. So that first 5% down from the 100% maximum has a really big long term effect of reducing the worst of the degradation. That next 5% down, still significant, but less so. The next 5% even less, etc. So these questions of setting your max limit to 90% or 80% or 70% or whatever all involve moving toward a middle state of charge, which is helpful for the long term health of the battery, but that also needs to be balanced with people's practical need to drive the car, so you need to keep it high enough to have useful range for you. Each person gets to pick whatever balanced point works for them.
Young Phenom
Member
It is your opinion that people should or shouldn't charge to whatever percent makes you feel smart. Elon and the Manufacturer are good with up to 90% daily. Anything you say beyond that is just noise. If the battery was at risk or failure or long term issues then the suggested daily charge would reflect lower.
You have too much time on your hands to not post actual data and weirdly assume that I I know nothing and you do. Uninformed people know that batteries degrade with usage and time, everything you said is not new information.
Feel free to forward that data to Tesla and Elon while you're at it since you are the expert in the matter, then we would all benefit from your knowledge.
If you're worried about battery degradation and feel the need to try to argue with people on the internet about it then maybe you're driving the wrong car.
Oh btw
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You have a really bad attitude about this and seem to want to be angry and insulting. I am telling you what the scientific data says about this. If you disagree or don't like what the information says, you are welcome to read up on it.
Tesla battery expert recommends daily charging limit to optimize durability - Electrek
Tesla Battery Expert's Recommendation For Maximum Battery Life - Video
Quote from Musk when asked about recommended charging range: "80% to 30%"
Quote from Jeff Dahn: "I would recommend charging to 70% normally. When you need a long trip, charge to 100%."
And other sources:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's the truth behind the biggest (and dumbest) battery myths | WIRED UK
Fast charging of lithium-ion batteries at all temperatures
Lithium-ion degradation at varying discharge rates - ScienceDirect
http://css.umich.edu/sites/default/files/publication/CSS20-08.pdf
2. I don't feel a need to argue with people on the internet. I don't appreciate seeing people spreading misinformation, though. You just flat out said Tesla recommends 90%. I filled in more detail of why that was a partial answer that is used by sales people, but if the experts within Tesla are asked for more details, they will readily tell people that it is not ideal. It was then you who got mad and started arguing.
I'm just giving detailed and accurate answers for people who are asking questions and want to know how this works. This is why Tesla has the charging screen interface set up with the "Daily" section available from 50% to 90%, with letting people choose where is a good fit for them.
No--I already told you. This is not my opinion.
Interestingly enough, Elon Musk and Jeff Dahn, the world renowned expert in lithium ion batteries who works for Tesla now DO recommend lower than 90%! Citation:
Tesla battery expert recommends daily charging limit to optimize durability - Electrek
Tesla Battery Expert's Recommendation For Maximum Battery Life - Video
Quote from Musk when asked about recommended charging range: "80% to 30%"
Quote from Jeff Dahn: "I would recommend charging to 70% normally. When you need a long trip, charge to 100%."
And other sources:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here's the truth behind the biggest (and dumbest) battery myths | WIRED UK
Fast charging of lithium-ion batteries at all temperatures
Lithium-ion degradation at varying discharge rates - ScienceDirect
http://css.umich.edu/sites/default/files/publication/CSS20-08.pdf
Pardon for not posting links to citations before. I didn't make any such assumptions. Stop being insulting and putting words in my mouth that I did not say.
They already have all of this information, as shown by Musk recommending lower than 90%. It is very common knowledge; not "my knowledge".
1. I am not worried about degradation. It is a fact of life, and I have found a pretty comfortable balance for me around 70-80%.
2. I don't feel a need to argue with people on the internet. I don't appreciate seeing people spreading misinformation, though. You just flat out said Tesla recommends 90%. I filled in more detail of why that was a partial answer that is used by sales people, but if the experts within Tesla are asked for more details, they will readily tell people that it is not ideal. It was then you who got mad and started arguing.
I'm just giving detailed and accurate answers for people who are asking questions and want to know how this works. This is why Tesla has the charging screen interface set up with the "Daily" section available from 50% to 90%, with letting people choose where is a good fit for them.
Young Phenom
Member
My comment that got you irritated and is somehow considered misinformation now by you, is Tesla recommends Charging to no more than 90% daily. Elon even says 95% is fine. But hey, you definitely are the expert so maybe he's wrong and Rocky H on a forum is right.
My post , which is still accurate btw.
All the other stuff you are posting is just noise.
See below. It's not a big deal.
And I saw where you just added quotes from Musk saying "it's not a big deal" and "you'll be fine" about charging to 90%.
Do you notice what that wording is like? That is more marketing speak. He is trying to reassure people to not worry and be paranoid if they feel they are going to break something by charging to 90% if they do need to charge it that high to have the amount of range they want.
He is well aware that using 90% as a daily limit will have faster degradation than lower limits, but he is having to combat the biggest resistance and fears in the public about EVs. Range, range, & range. Most of the public is skeptical about electric cars having short range, so it would be detrimental to Tesla's image to go around announcing recommendations to only charge to 70 or 80% frequently. There would be a lot of "told you so" and criticism from the public and naysayers. So they stick with generally reassuring people that 90% is generally OK, even if it's certainly not ideal.
Do you notice what that wording is like? That is more marketing speak. He is trying to reassure people to not worry and be paranoid if they feel they are going to break something by charging to 90% if they do need to charge it that high to have the amount of range they want.
He is well aware that using 90% as a daily limit will have faster degradation than lower limits, but he is having to combat the biggest resistance and fears in the public about EVs. Range, range, & range. Most of the public is skeptical about electric cars having short range, so it would be detrimental to Tesla's image to go around announcing recommendations to only charge to 70 or 80% frequently. There would be a lot of "told you so" and criticism from the public and naysayers. So they stick with generally reassuring people that 90% is generally OK, even if it's certainly not ideal.
Young Phenom
Member
Wow.
Maybe it is all a conspiracy and marking after all...
Lmao.
Btw, I'd charge to 75 daily if that's what the recommended maximum daily charge is, but it's not.
Ah, so you've added moving the goalposts now. That is not what you originally said:
If you had started off saying "no more than 90%", I never would have even said anything.
Young Phenom
Member
The intent was the same. Tesla only recommends one two things, no more than 90% for daily, which is what my post reflects and don't let the battery hit 0%. You chose to take it the way you did which after having one conversation with you , is entirely not surprising lmao.
And somehow I doubt you go through life saying " if only he or she said this then I wouldn't have said anything"
90% daily charge and this is why, I live in California which is home of the earthquakes. You should always prepare to have a good charge just Incase of a power outage. Note that even the Gas Stations are also down due to no power. But you can store a few gallons of fuel in the garage. Where as the EV don’t have that option.
Tesla also was nice enough to extend the range when we had those hurricanes on the East Coast mainly Florida and up the coast. If you’re in one of these locations whether Hurricane season or Earthquakes you should be prepared and have plenty of juice left in the tank to get the heck out of town.
Fred
Tesla also was nice enough to extend the range when we had those hurricanes on the East Coast mainly Florida and up the coast. If you’re in one of these locations whether Hurricane season or Earthquakes you should be prepared and have plenty of juice left in the tank to get the heck out of town.
Fred
FrankTUTB
Member
I haven't received my MY yet, but I already have a plan to limit the nightly charge to 75% and only max out when I have a large trip planned.
This is based on my own knowledge of how these types of batteries work. (engineer for 10 years)
This is based on my own knowledge of how these types of batteries work. (engineer for 10 years)
Mike_TV
Active Member
This thread reminds me of the back and forth arguments people would have on the VW forums as to when they should change their brake fluid. 
I am trying to figure out my charging strategy, so the comments have been helpful. I commute 2x/week, for about 100 miles round trip. I did my first one yesterday, and I started with 85%, and was only down to 55% when I got home. I think I'll keep it around 70-75% during the week and max out when I'm headed somewhere more distanced.
I use 80% to conserve battery life. Interested in any experiments by seasoned users
Currently the battery life is rated at 500,000 miles, that’s way more miles then I ever put on any Ice car I have owned, on average 300,000 miles if that and it’s time to replace the car. I understand that at 300,000 miles on an Ice Engine and it’s time to replace the engine.
I charge to 90% every night. I’m in California which is home of Earthquake city. You need the 90% charge just Incase we lose power due to a schedule power outage or an Earthquake which could shutdown power plants as before. Note that Gas Stations are also out of commission during a power outage.
It’s been known that charging at 80% or lower will cause a mis-balancing of the battery and will start to show a lower range on the screen.
The car has been happy at 90% nightly. That’s my take.
Fred
I charge to 90% every night. I’m in California which is home of Earthquake city. You need the 90% charge just Incase we lose power due to a schedule power outage or an Earthquake which could shutdown power plants as before. Note that Gas Stations are also out of commission during a power outage.
It’s been known that charging at 80% or lower will cause a mis-balancing of the battery and will start to show a lower range on the screen.
The car has been happy at 90% nightly. That’s my take.
Fred
I didn't know it was rated for 500,000 miles. Where can I find more information about this rating?
You can google stats, also there are Model S with 400,000+ miles logged already. That’s why the Million mile battery will be a big deal.
Tesla battery data shows path to over 500,000 miles on a single pack - Electrek
Fred
Tesla battery data shows path to over 500,000 miles on a single pack - Electrek
Fred
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