MCU2 - Retrofit

[chillaban]

Because Tesla has so much free time to develop a bespoke daughter module for the original MCU? Really?

And there would be a limited market for them. (Less thank 300k for sure. But given the cost of bespoke designs, and then ongoing costs for supporting yet another platform combination I would imagine it would come with a bespoke price that would drive the demand way down.)

Yeah, I agree. I think our proposal here is basically for Tesla to design an alternative MCU1.5 which would use the Intel platform but be a compatible swap for MCU1.

I just can't see that happening, as much as I'd want that for my car. It'd cost a lot and add yet another MCU flavor they have to constantly support, and we know how much Tesla already struggles with differing configurations and supporting them properly (e.g. how many times has a flavor of side repeater camera / FWD sensor caused an update failure)

 

[HankLloydRight]

That wasn't the proposal. The proposal was to keep the existing MCU but with a bespoke daughter module with an Intel chip. Only the daughter would be swapped. It would maintain all existing wiring, power, and display connectors.

I'm not even a chip engineer and I know that you can't just plop down an Intel chip onto a motherboard designed and made 8 years ago for some other chip and completely different CPU architecture.

You make it sound like it's as easy as swapping DIN sized radio for another DIN sized radio. Doesn't work like that.

Yeah, I agree. I think our proposal here is basically for Tesla to design an alternative MCU1.5 which would use the Intel platform but be a compatible swap for MCU1.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying is possible. Don't know if it will happen, but possible.

 

[Fiver]

I think the point is, if they wanted to make a retrofit available, they would have designed the entire refresh differently from the start. MCU2 (based on what we know so far) was not built with retrofitting in mind. I'm sure they looked at all options for updating it, and at the end of the day, they decided to draw a line in the sand and go with what we have now.

Designing an updated MCU, that was also retrofit possible just didn't work out for financial, and/or engineering reasons. They had a list of things they wanted to achieve with this update and they did it. The upside is, beyond performance, the experience is still the same. The downside is, older cars will not be hardware swappable to get the performance.

Until these new cars start getting features that old cars don't have, no sense getting riled up.

 

[viper2ko]

I think the point is, if they wanted to make a retrofit available, they would have designed the entire refresh differently from the start. MCU2 (based on what we know so far) was not built with retrofitting in mind. I'm sure they looked at all options for updating it, and at the end of the day, they decided to draw a line in the sand and go with what we have now.

Designing an updated MCU, that was also retrofit possible just didn't work out for financial, and/or engineering reasons. They had a list of things they wanted to achieve with this update and they did it. The upside is, beyond performance, the experience is still the same. The downside is, older cars will not be hardware swappable to get the performance.

Until these new cars start getting features that old cars don't have, no sense getting riled up.

They already have vector maps, working browser

 

[kristofior]

They already have vector maps, working browser

Vector Maps are not planned for MCU1 ?

 

[Fiver]

They already have vector maps, working browser

Vector maps seem to be promised to both platforms, we old MCU users just are lagging a bit. If in 6 months the new maps haven't come to old MCU people, then I'd start to be angry. Honestly I haven't had that many issues with the current maps though. The first leaked videos showed vector maps running on MCU1.

The browser is another animal. Honestly if I could get a optional build for classics that just stripped out all the browser code, I would take it. Even if it just gained me a few percentage points of performance, I'd do that in a heartbeat. The browser is neat and all, but honestly useless compared to a smartphone. I wasn't surprised at all it wasn't included in the Model 3. It's one extra thing the engineers need to code for, when instead I'd have them just improving the software of the cars.


/edit. Vector Maps on MCU1 video. First look at Tesla’s new maps and navigation engine

 

[CarbonFree]

I'm not even a chip engineer and I know that you can't just plop down an Intel chip onto a motherboard designed and made 8 years ago for some other chip and completely different CPU architecture.

Um, no, your understanding is incorrect. The Tegra is not on the main MCU board. It's on another card. Here's the MCU:

The Tegra is on the daughterboard on the right.

Here's an up-close shot:

That looks like a straight up PCI-e x16 slot, but I could be mistaken. In fact, the pcie card looks like it has no custom engineering at all; it's just NVIDIA's reference implementation. They could probably swap in a Tegra 4 card and everything would just work. Or an Intel card with some mods.

That said I suspect the MCU2 with a few changed connectors is the easiest route. Perhaps the IC would also be replaced, with a new wire fished through approximately two feet through the dash compartment.

 

[MP3Mike]

They already have vector maps

Do we know that for a fact?

 

[viper2ko]

Do we know that for a fact?

I believe d4erik showed it in one of his videos. If not his it's in one of the videos of the new MCU floating around

 

[CarbonFree]

That's a short-term view. The long term view would be how much would these changes save us in parts, assembly, maintenance, and repair costs? They could easily calculate an ROI on the R&D required to re-engineer everything that needs re-engineering. And for a car design that's going on 10 years old, I'm sure there's A LOT of things that need a new, fresh look to rebuild the platform for the next 10 years.

Car makers have been doing this for decades now. If automakers can shave 10 cents of a part, they will. Ford could have fixed the ill-fated Pinto gas tank for $11 per car (about $80 in today's dollars), but they chose not to and hundreds of people died as a result.

(more details here: Ford Pinto Fuel Tanks - Top Automotive Engineering Failures)

Yep: and the appropriate time to do this is when the entire interior is refreshed. The MCU2 can be considered a stop gap measure for parity with the 3. Only the minimum number of changes need be made.

 

[HankLloydRight]

m, no, your understanding is incorrect. The Tegra is not on the main MCU board. It's on another card. Here's the MCU:

Ok, I stand corrected. But don't you think if they're using a new Intel CPU, that they'd also update the 8 year old main MCU board as well?

And wouldn't there be significant dependencies between the MCU board and the CPU daughterboard?

I think my point stands that the Intel retrofit isn't as simple as replacing the daughterboard. So many other things we know changed --like the display and the rear connector layout.

 

[kristofior]

If I understand correctly, vector maps will increase display speed for vector-view navigation, but not satelitte view, right ?

Question :
How would you explain that tiles are beeing filled speeder in MCU2 demos than in MCU1 ?
From my understanding, tiles are seen as 'blank' until bitmap data to fill them is downloaded from the 3G/4G connection.
So how would MCU2 speed up the 3G/4G download process ?

(tiles : the squares areas you can see on the screen when you rotate/zoom in/zoom out the map)

 

[HankLloydRight]

Yep: and the appropriate time to do this is when the entire interior is refreshed.

Obviously Tesla thought differently and updated the MCU anyway.

Or there is no new interior refresh coming and this is "it."

 

[CarbonFree]

It would be more accurate to say that Tesla owners have a history of demanding upgrade options.

I'm not sure Roadster owners asked for a battery upgrade. But, regardless, Tesla has a long history of making upgrades available.

 

[chillaban]

If I understand correctly, vector maps will increase display speed for vector-view navigation, but not satelitte view, right ?

Question :
How would you explain that tiles are beeing filled speeder in MCU2 demos than in MCU1 ?
From my understanding, tiles are seen as 'blank' until bitmap data to fill them is downloaded from the 3G/4G connection.
So how would MCU2 speed up the 3G/4G download process ?

(tiles : the squares areas you can see on the screen when you rotate/zoom in/zoom out the map)

A lot of tiles are locally cached. The delay you're seeing is unlikely to simply be a download delay, it's the MCU converting/decompressing the tiles into the correct format to be displayed.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Or there is no new interior refresh coming and this is "it."

With Tesla, "this" is never "it".

 

[HankLloydRight]

With Tesla, "this" is never "it".

Ha ha, you're right. I meant "it" being "the massive interior refresh" that's been "right around the corner" for ~18 months now.

 

[de Vere]

I agree there will be no massive interior refresh as past history reveals regular unannounced incremental upgrades, some larger than others. Another reason the value of older cars is maintained.

 

[PiercePeniless]

T
- Intel includes two audio DSPs per chip.

Would this mean there might be something to the upgrade in quality to the standard sound system some folks are describing?

 

[nitrox05]

I'm surprised there are no MCU upgrades available. Elon Musk seemed to imply that you could upgrade the infotainment in a twitter back in january: Elon Musk on Twitter