Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Measuring the panel gaps upon delivery

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.

holeydonut

Active Member
Supporting Member
Jun 27, 2020
4,541
4,063
East Bay NorCal
Listings
I'm not really posting about a specific problem with panel gaps and flushness; I'm more interested to learn how people are measuring panel gaps and flushness upon delivery. Are people basically just telling Tesla "hey this looks wrong" to ask Tesla to look into an issue? And similarly are people just saying "hey this looks right" to believe the gaps/alignment are satisfactory?

In things I've read about this topic, people are sort of eyeballing variances which seems highly subjective and I can see why people get so worked up on the issue or struggle to get a remedy. In my experience, If you can't measure something with a car, then you can't fix something with the car.

Some journalists and ranty-Youtubers are taking regular calipers to measure gaps. This seems like the wrong tool since calipers are "outside in" measurement tools. And we're measuring a void; not measuring the diameter of a pipe. Calipers suffer from parallax issues where simply holding the tool at the wrong angle would result in a measurement variance or scratches on paint.

An inside gap measuring caliper is usually only good down to 1/2 inch, and they usually have metal which risks marring the paint.

Plastic feeler gauges or tapered hole-gauges may be an option, but I don't think I've seen anyone do this with their Tesla. The one of these I see on Amazon (I won't link it because it just looks ghetto AF) doesn't seem like a reliable tool and just seems to have random markings. I also don't see +/- 4mm feelers; they're usually maxed out at 1mm and you have to stack a bunch to measure a typical automobile fender or part gap.

I don't mean to create this thread as a means to bash Tesla for manufacturing. It appears that people are happy with their exterior and interior parts alignment just as there are people who are unhappy. I'm simply trying to understand if anyone has ever actually objectively measured the gaps and flushness around the car to document why they believe the car is or is not "in spec."

Edit: I say panel gap in the subject line, but flushness is as important as the width of the gap itself. I'm kind of using both interchangeably, but I apologize if people don't realize I'm actually meaning both measurements.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lindenwood
Its impossible for a person to determine if the car is "in spec" in relation to this because I dont believe tesla publishes what "spec" is, in relation to this. People trying to pull out caliper tools on delivery have basically ruined any questions to tesla delivery people about this, because they have heard "this is wrong" so much, they basically ignore people complaining, especially if they pull a tool out of their pocket.

People say "the gaps look wrong" when they dont look even around the car, visually. Thats likely the best way to approach it, at least in my opinion. If someone pulls a tool out of their pocket in front of a delivery specialist and starts trying to measure, they are going to for sure get ignored on anything they bring up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lindenwood and KK35
Its impossible for a person to determine if the car is "in spec" in relation to this because I dont believe tesla publishes what "spec" is, in relation to this. People trying to pull out caliper tools on delivery have basically ruined any questions to tesla delivery people about this, because they have heard "this is wrong" so much, they basically ignore people complaining, especially if they pull a tool out of their pocket.

People say "the gaps look wrong" when they dont look even around the car, visually. Thats likely the best way to approach it, at least in my opinion. If someone pulls a tool out of their pocket in front of a delivery specialist and starts trying to measure, they are going to for sure get ignored on anything they bring up.


I can see why someone pulling a tool out in front of a delivery person would be upsetting (since the delivery person cannot do anything except deliver the car). I'm thinking more of instances where someone really feels there is a problem, it seems having a proper tool measurement would go a long way to explaining the reason for a fix request (through the proper channel) instead of just saying it "looks wrong". Similarly, if someone feels their car is fine, wouldn't it make you feel good to actually measure it instead of just assuming?

My understanding (through firsthand experience on a product team making cars in Detroit) is that panel gap "spec" is usually 4mm to 5mm between parts that move (doors, hood, hatch). And flushness should be within 2mm where the panels line up on the same plane.

Gaps between cutlines on fixed fender panels (eg rear fascia aligned to the back end of the unibody, or headlight to the front of the unibody) should be 1mm. The only exterior gap I remember being the biggest exception was between the bottom of a trunk/lift-gate and the top of the bumper. This is because people slam the hell out of these things, so there's a monster gap to avoid rubbing when people slam the crap out of that part. Interior gaps are a bit more tricky... like I've seen some gaps between the doors and the cross-car-beam that are like 10mm. It's just gross to see, but whatever customers don't seem to mind as much.

So if a customer identifies an issue, the automaker usually had a way to quantitatively assess what was the root cause of the problem and could remedy if they felt compelled to do so. The key was getting the data to see if there really was a problem.

For example, some customers will complain about whistling coming from a door where the rubber seals look ok so it's not leakage into the car. Door panels or a hood that has a large gaps or is not flush could end up with this type of annoying whistle or excessive noise. But my point is having a measurement showing "off spec" usually means it's possible to fix the problem compared to if someone just says the gap looks off.

So I'm surprised more people aren't showing measurements taken with a proper tool if they indeed have an issue or if they indeed believe their car was assembled within spec.
 
You obviously have some work experience with this, but lets just say I dont think tesla publishes what their "within spec" is, so even with measurements, going back to them and saying its XXMM, wont mean much if they say "its within spec".

I also dont think teslas manufacturing tolerances are as tight as some other brands, so there is plenty that is "within spec" stated by tesla personnel that some find objectionable.

TL ; DR, in my opinion, anyone going to buy a tesla needs to be prepared for the possibility that this stuff may not match what they are used to, or want, and be prepared to either deal with it or walk away from the vehicle. Tesla fixes some of it, but usually tells the person "its within spec", and sends them on their way.

if you find a "spec" somewhere on this stuff, let us know. I havent seen it.
 
Spec is probably a red herring because spec is whatever the person in charge wants it to be.

The story goes a few years ago Ferdinand Piëch at VW threatened to fire everyone on a product team if they couldn’t get panel gaps for body panels down to 3-4mm.

IIRC GM had a problem in the Bob Lutz days because the guy demanded 4mm gaps. But he was also not willing to go down to an assembly line and witness a car roll off final assembly. So any time GM’s upper management requested to have a car for inspection, it got a once over and all gaps aligned by the product team. So GM never had a “gap problem” in the eyes of senior (or señor) management.

There was also some Infiniti ads back in the 90s with some ball bearing rolling along all their incredibly tight gaps. And I remember someone suing over how their car didn’t have those gaps which means the ad was deceptive.

Anyway gaps is just a sign of quality. If a carmaker can’t get right the things you can see, then what are they messing up below the surface? 4mm is a consensus target on most vehicles… even less for luxury and more lax on big azzz trucks and SUV’s. But whatever spec is, you want to see consistent gaps at that spec.
 
Finally found a YouTube video of someone objectively measuring the gaps on a MY with the proper tool. It looks pretty good for an early production unit… overall mostly average in terms of gap. I guess this guy is an automaker consultant so it stands to reason hes got the correct tool for this assessment.


I wish more people would attempt what this Sandy guy is doing with the right tool so we’d have more data points, especially on a Model 3 that is further along in age. That way we’d actually get some good data instead of people using nickels and pennies to measure gap. Would lend more objectivity to whether or not this whole gap thing is still a problem or just psychosomatic.

Anyway, I think something gapped over 5mm or under 3mm … or over 2mm on flushness should be at least documented with Tesla even if they’ll tell the owner to eff off. That’s be like Daewoo quality… not good… but Elon won’t care because he’s Elon and he’s loaded lol.
 
Last edited:
I showed up, walked around to check no transport unloading damage and visually checked functionality of doors. Trunk was visibly off to the point it was going to regularly rub the bumper when it closed. They took it away for 20-30 mins and corrected it. Have I, since owning it these last 3 weeks, noticed a couple other slightly out of line panels that I didn’t pick up on in my delivery excitement… yes (the passenger door is slightly off) but I’m not going to do anything about it. Initially I thought about taking one of those delivery lists, but after thinking about it, it was a lot more than I needed to feel happy about accepting the car.

I’ve never considered panel gaps before reading about them for Teslas. But now that I know about them, when walking the dog, I check out other manufacturers to see similar issues. Our Hyundai ICE car trunk lid is awful…a VW Jetta I was parked behind the other week was so awful I took a picture.
 
Yeah if parts are “kissing” on a brand new car that’s definitely something to address.

How old are your other cars? You should consider that gaps change as a car ages, which is one of the reasons you want 4mm when new so it may change to 1mm after a driver door is open/slammed 2,000 times, and the wind blows it open hard a few times, and some kid hangs on it because kids man.

I think every car buyer has different expectations of what a vehicle should be. People who are data/quant naturally view something differently than someone who is more attune to emotions or someone who values pragmatism. I don’t think it is right or wrong to care about things that may disinterest someone else.

What I am more surprised about is how infrequently people are obtaining real data about gaps using the right tool. There are a lot of engineers out there who see panel gaps because they’re engineers. But oddly I can only find one actually measured it.
 
Quite frankly people just eyeball it and if it looks off by eyeball, usually Tesla will adjust (regardless of the spec). As for the spec, while it is not public, the SC does have an official on that they refer to (they don't just wing it). I believe it was brought up in another thread. Other car manufacturers have it too, there is a repair document that shows the tolerances for each panel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: holeydonut
I showed up, walked around to check no transport unloading damage and visually checked functionality of doors. Trunk was visibly off to the point it was going to regularly rub the bumper when it closed. They took it away for 20-30 mins and corrected it. Have I, since owning it these last 3 weeks, noticed a couple other slightly out of line panels that I didn’t pick up on in my delivery excitement… yes (the passenger door is slightly off) but I’m not going to do anything about it. Initially I thought about taking one of those delivery lists, but after thinking about it, it was a lot more than I needed to feel happy about accepting the car.

I’ve never considered panel gaps before reading about them for Teslas. But now that I know about them, when walking the dog, I check out other manufacturers to see similar issues. Our Hyundai ICE car trunk lid is awful…a VW Jetta I was parked behind the other week was so awful I took a picture.

Absolutely spot on.

Tim
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stan930
Quite frankly people just eyeball it and if it looks off by eyeball, usually Tesla will adjust (regardless of the spec). As for the spec, while it is not public, the SC does have an official on that they refer to (they don't just wing it). I believe it was brought up in another thread. Other car manufacturers have it too, there is a repair document that shows the tolerances for each panel.

Good to know. I got the feeling Tesla was telling people to pound sand on this topic unless the panels were literally touching when they shouldn’t be.
 
Good to know. I got the feeling Tesla was telling people to pound sand on this topic unless the panels were literally touching when they shouldn’t be.
It depends on which SC and manager you get (and perhaps how busy they were at that point in time). There are some that "do it by the book" and if it's within tolerance they won't do anything. Other SCs will adjust things for you even if it was already within tolerance.
 
I think every car buyer has different expectations of what a vehicle should be. People who are data/quant naturally view something differently than someone who is more attune to emotions or someone who values pragmatism. I don’t think it is right or wrong to care about things that may disinterest someone else.

Yea there's no need to defend what you're interested in or curious about. Personally, if the car passes the eyeball test at delivery I'd be happy and call it a day. They'll just tell you to put in a service request through the app for any issues that you find, so it's probably not productive to measure anything on the spot. I'd love to see the SA's face if someone bust out a protractor\magnifying glass\gap tool though, so please take a video if you do haha.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TBrownTX
My honest opinion (and you’re not going to like it …) — if you show up and start pulling out calipers, you’re someone who’s looking to create problems.

You’re buying a run-of-the-mill commodity car here. If something looks egregiously off to your eyeball, sure, say something. Otherwise, get behind the wheel and drive the damn thing. First time someone at Target opens their door into you and puts a ding in the car, none of that crap matters anymore. Being the Paint & Panel Police won’t matter.

Donate the calipers to a high school science class.
 
My honest opinion (and you’re not going to like it …) — if you show up and start pulling out calipers, you’re someone who’s looking to create problems.

You’re buying a run-of-the-mill commodity car here. If something looks egregiously off to your eyeball, sure, say something. Otherwise, get behind the wheel and drive the damn thing. First time someone at Target opens their door into you and puts a ding in the car, none of that crap matters anymore. Being the Paint & Panel Police won’t matter.

Donate the calipers to a high school science class.
Amen 🙏
 
My honest opinion (and you’re not going to like it …) — if you show up and start pulling out calipers, you’re someone who’s looking to create problems.

You’re buying a run-of-the-mill commodity car here. If something looks egregiously off to your eyeball, sure, say something. Otherwise, get behind the wheel and drive the damn thing. First time someone at Target opens their door into you and puts a ding in the car, none of that crap matters anymore. Being the Paint & Panel Police won’t matter.

Donate the calipers to a high school science class.

My honest facts and you’re not going to like them is that only one household will be living with the particular car that is on my RN. The car costs over $60,000. It is not a cheap car that may be likened to a Corolla or Spectra.

I’m seeking going to document any identified gaps so that if there is a problem with water coming in or wind/whistles after a few years of ownership, I can produce evidence that the root cause of the issue was identified at the time of delivery, and Tesla refused to remedy at that time because it wasn’t something they wanted to address yet. A few years and a few more mm of deflection likely worsened the problem over time.

Or, as I’d hope to find… no issues and nothing major to document.

You’re more than welcome to just deal with the hand that was dealt on your car, but I’m seeking evidence to document for my car. If there’s a problem, I want to measure it and document it instead of assuming there is no problem. At the same time data can also indicate there is no problem. I like data either way.

As for an opinion you may not like… These cars are branded Tesla, not Tonka. And my opinion on this is that buyers of a $60,000 Tesla shouldn’t be quick to make excuses about poor assembly quality on finished panels. But to each their own. You can make excuses and I’ll try to get measurements.
 
Last edited:
Guys, I'm here to pickup my Tesla!

depositphotos_358915336-stock-photo-math-genius-geometry-geek-holding.jpg
 
Last edited:
People obsessing about body panel gaps are missing the whole point about driving a Tesla. If it looks good and performs well the car should be accepted. Elon has mentioned that panel gaps should get better as they introduce more large castings instead of many smaller parts that need to be welded together.
There is no published spec for body parts gaps, just to put them together as well as you can in the time allotted. Some manufacturers are better at this than others. Tesla must deal with a millennial California workforce. Perhaps in Germany they have more precision oriented workers.