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Measuring the panel gaps upon delivery
- Thread starter holeydonut
- Start date
Had some issues with some panel gaps and front door alignment issues we noticed after washing and detailing the car after 6 weeks of ownership. Contacted the local service center and uploaded some photos. The Tesla Service people couldn't have been nicer. All issues were resolved. No questions asked.
CarlThompson
Member
That was not exclusive to Ford. I had a few other brands of cars back in the day that burned just as much oil or more. That's part of the reason why back then car manufacturers recommended that you fully change out all of your engine oil every 3,000 miles.
CarlThompson
Member
I'm sure Tesla's tolerances are very tight where they need to be-- in the motors, inverters, chargers, batteries, BMS, brakes, etc. But body panel gaps are mainly cosmetic and really don't impact the safe operation of the car. Tesla seems to have made the decision that they are not going to spend a bunch of money to change their processes to satisfy those people who want super-tight tolerances on panels gaps. That's Tesla's decision to make and I respect it. In my opinion the average customer doesn't notice or care if one panel gap is 1mm bigger on one side than the other.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong if you're one of those who want such tight tolerances on body panels.Obviously we'd all prefer it if it didn't raise the price. But it would raise the price and Tesla has chosen not to cater to that group that makes buying decisions based on this sort of thing.
I agree with your general premise that making quality builds costs money; and Tesla is diverting funds to things the product-folks believe are more valuable. But I also think you created a strawman argument and "won" against a position that no one is making.
If you look at some of the panel gap complaints (on TMC, Youtube, Monro Associates, etc); they see things much more than 1mm off a normal-spec.
I cannot find any post claiming "I measured a gap of 4mm, but it should be 3mm plz fix".
There was one poster who literally had parts kissing, and Tesla told them the gap was within spec. There are some pictures people have posted where a 72 dpi grainy jpeg is enough to show there is an issue with misalignment.
Sandy Munro has been fairly vocal about this; which makes sense as he's been involved with hundreds of vehicle tear-downs in his career. And he was measuring gaps and flushness issues that were much more than a +/- 1mm deviation from normal automotive assembly spec.
Where I think Tesla has improved greatly is to stop telling customers that a perceived issue gap issue falls "within spec". A few months ago, Tesla was turning away customer complaints that seemed fairly noticeable (much more than your 1mm strawman scenario). The good news is based on the recent postings in the delivery thread, customers who spot issues are getting things fixed to a good outcome by Tesla. So something's changed for the better, and Tesla is now fixing issues if they are brought to someone's attention.
I myself found some parts kissing to the extent paint was rubbed off at the contact point. I totally missed these when I did an inspection of the major gap/flush points the first day after getting my car. Luckily for me, Tesla sent two mobile techs and their combined effort replaced the damaged parts and fixed the issue. The same part on the other side of the car was also almost kissing; and they went ahead and restored that to 3mm so I wouldn't develop a problem later.
Bottom line, if someone cares about panel gaps and flushness, they should alert Tesla of an issue that they think is off. Let Tesla come back with a recommendation or solution. And for people that don't care about cutlines, trunk gaps, and door-flushness, they can just enjoy their world class powertrain.
+1 for the update HoleyDonut. Glad to hear it all turned out alright.Resurrecting my thread...
I'm sure the "just ignore the gaps" folks will come back and talk about how I suck. But for those who is actually interested in marveling at the tech alongside also being really happy with the build... here's what I did regarding the gap and flushness for the vehicle that was just dropped off in my driveway.
I used to work in automotive in Detroit (like in HQ, not at a plant). I know they all now use cutting edge laser tools today.
GapGun® Pro2 - Third Dimension
GapGun, leading hand-held laser measurement tool for quality control. Measure gap and flush, radius, edge break, countersink, scratch + more.www.third.com
Gap and Flush System a Good Fit for Chrysler Assembly Plant
While a crooked painting in your office would certainly catch your notice, a car door askew by less than a millimeter probably wouldn’t. And yet forwww.visionspectra-digital.com
Unfortunately a hand held gapgun that can measure in 3D space is like... super expensive. However, Just a few decades ago, it was mostly eyeballs and cheap feeler gages. I hit up one of my old friends who sent me one of the old-school tools they used in the 90s to do batch tests on gaps and flushness. It's a "No Mar flushness and gap gage" that kind of looks like the following. I have no clue how a normal person is supposed to get this, but some of the old timers had these in their desks I guess. You can see how this tool works... and I'm 99% sure that Munro guy on Youtube uses this since he's old-school from Ford.
The symmetrical tapered end measures distance as you push it into a gap. The side that looks like a deck of mis-aligned playing cards measures flushness across two planes that are near each other. Yes, this tool is crude, and doesn't take into account curvature well. But you know what; it's the best I can get.
View attachment 696762
On the exterior:
I measured every stupid-gap around my car. It turns out, just like many have expressed on TMC ... my P3 was assembled pretty well. The exterior gaps and flushness were really good on my Model 3. There was only 1 gap that I found that 5.0 mm... the rest of the gaps were 3mm to 4mm. Cutlines for parts that don't move (eg fascias) were all less than 1mm. This all means the car's gaps and cutlines are superb.
The only somewhat exterior problem area was the headlight assembly. The Model 3 has a crazy swooping headlight assembly that I wager is really tough to align properly. On my car the headlights are off-flush by like 2mm. But I think trying to get this right would need a much slower line speed and a ton of trial and error since it doesn't appear there's any way a worker (or robot) could use spacers to get this right as a car flies down the line. Probably not worth submitting as an issue.
Aside from the headlights, the exterior flushness was also very good... each door was 0.5mm flush along the beltline, and brake lights and door handles were uniform throughout. Overall this car has some superb exterior fit and finish.
On the interior:
The cross-car gap between the IP and the front driver door and front passenger door is usually the main thing to check in any car. This P3 is off 3mm... with the driver side gap being around 5mm while the passenger side is 2mm. This is probably "within spec" for Tesla, but would be off spec for pretty much any other major automaker producing cars today. It's definitely not fixable without a major amount of work, and I'm not going to press Tesla for anything.
All I can say is... the cars are supposed to be built well. If yours isn't, I think it's worthwhile to make sure things that are way off spec are fixed. Personally, if I had a gap that was way off (or causing two moving parts to "kiss"), I'd ask Tesla to fix it. Luckily I didn't have that problem for gaps.
But, what I am going to submit is a ticket to them for marring in the paint that I couldn't remove with a claybar... I want to see if they'll take a shot at it before I go for it with a polisher. And the interior is so full of black fingerprints and smudges. Like wtf... Elon needs to let these folks get new gloves every once in a while...
The reason some of us are “obsessing” about this is that the misalignments on a brand new Tesla can be glaringly obvious. I don’t need a caliper to know that the doors on my brand new Model 3 is misaligned, it is clearly visible. I have never owned a BMW, but I have owned several Audis, and none of them had visible misalignments. On my last ICE car, an Audi A4 in 2000, even after 19 years I could still hold the door 4 inches open and let go, and the door would shut completely with a satisfying “thud”. My 2019 Model 3 required a significant force to close properly. My recently delivered 2021 model (Chinese built) is much better, but still not ate the Audi level.
Which is fine. An eye check is not going overboard. Making sure everything works correctly is also fine.
I just think it goes into overboard and obsessive territory when you bring a measuring tool and making sure a gap is 4 mm and not 5 mm, etc.
If it has a glaringly bad panel gap or alignment absolutely demand it to be fixed or reject it. I’m not saying accept a poorly assembled car or accept it like that because it is a Tesla, etc.
Exactly my point. If your eyeball can see it’s off, it should absolutely be fixed. It’s the micrometer crowd that I don’t understand. If you can’t see it, why would it matter?
I think we've gone full circle on why I made this thread. Some people were having issues that were "eyeballable"; and Tesla was telling them it was "within spec". Tesla was not fixing obvious flaws.
So, I asked how people were taking measurements to objectively prove what the eyes were seeing. And then this went in a dumpster fire with people posting stupid memes and making fun of the whole topic.
We all seem to be in agreement that if something is off, Tesla should fix it. The good news is Tesla seems to be fixing issues now. There has been a decrease in the amount of reports in the delivery threads of "it's within spec" when parts are very misaligned. Tesla seems to be addressing issues as customers raise them (even without a measurement).
A obsessive human with a GAP gauge is not required to discover the few or many fit and finish issues with you particular car. Aside from that as I made clear in the post, the few problems we had with some door alignments and spacing were taken care of in a timely and professional manner. We continue to love the car. The looks. The features. The electronics. The over air updates. The battery and motor technologies. Currently the Tesla, regardless of model is the best EV one can purchase at a fair price. Add to that the developed and growing charging network and it's pretty much a done deal at this time. All the competitors are not yet showing their products. Suggest you do a WWW search of Sandy Munro of Munro and Associates. He's a very interesting guy and you might absorb something.
I'm getting close to a M3 LR delivery, and am glad to hear that gap issues are less common than they used to be. I think @holeydonut made some valid points in this thread. For me, I'd find a gap gauge would be handy to have IF I found gaps that appear problematic to my eyes so that I could verify with some measurements rather than providing a subjective eyeball assessment.
I'm curious if Tesla is typically able to adequately repair most cars with problem gaps.
I'm curious if Tesla is typically able to adequately repair most cars with problem gaps.
In my experience they correct panel gaps and door alignment issues. Took delivery of Model 3 in November of 2021. Previously had a 2019 Chevy Bolt.
had a trunk alignment issue after a few weeks (using trunk often) and it began rubbing against the bumper - rubbed a little paint off - was going in for faulty headlight anyway…..
Now since car was ceramic coated day 3 - told them please do not touch up the bumper…. It’s a tiny one inch thing - don’t worry about it etc
When I picked it up I didn’t really check anything - but looking at the 0 fee bill it said they replaced the whole bumper…..
Now since car was ceramic coated day 3 - told them please do not touch up the bumper…. It’s a tiny one inch thing - don’t worry about it etc
When I picked it up I didn’t really check anything - but looking at the 0 fee bill it said they replaced the whole bumper…..
Just took my model 3 to the SC for a panel gap where I have pointed below but they said panel gaps with the quarter panel and bumper area can't be adjusted since this area is bolted on so there wasn't much they could do. Anyone ever get that response before and have any recommendations on what I else I should try?
Yeah, that one is rough. The tiny picture you're showing doesn't seem to indicate the level of gap that will clear Tesla's (or any automaker's) threshold to repair.
Being said, alignment along cut-lines can be difficult to remedy. A mobile tech isn't able to address this.
My bad, I should've provided a closer picture of this surface. My question more was with the quarter panel and bumper being unable to be aligned as it was the first I was told of it. Is this normally the case?
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Yeah, that's not so much a panel gap issue as it is a flushness issue. Like the bumper looks like it's sticking above the plane by 2mm. Unfortunately, as many have noted in this thread (and other panel gap threads on TMC), 2mm is within Tesla's spec.
It's not that this cut-line issue cannot be fixed; it's just that fixing it requires someone to remove the fascia and re-shim it. And that will cost money + time. It'll be unlikely Tesla pays for that.
You may want to just stop looking at that part of your car. Luckily for you it can't be seen when you're driving...
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