Medicare for all - fixing US healthcare

[israndy]

So it seems to me that this is a forum of smart, forward-looking people. People that understand that we are in this for the long haul and using finite resources are bad for the planet.

So of course, everyone here MUST also be for Universal Healthcare. Not crazy watered-down choices like Mayor Pete advocates. Just a simple abolition of health insurance, premiums, co-pays, and all the cards and networks that are designed to screw you out of inexpensive healthcare.

Thoughts?

 

[glide]

Universal healthcare sounds great. Let me know when someone figures out how to implement it without taxing regular people to death, and without destroying an industry that employs 22 million people, all while making sure doctors are fairly compensated for their time, education level and skill.

I’ll be waiting.

 

[Leeclanual]

Not concerned... 4 more years will be enough time to unscrew all the bad policies from the last administration.

 

[SDRick]

The way the poll was written seems somewhat biased. You may as well throw in an option for Medicare for all combined with open borders.

 

[Ostrichsak]

The fallacy with Obamacare from the jump was pretty obvious to anyone who cared to look: Even people who HAD health care were having to file BK due to medical expenses.

Moving everyone to forced healthcare doesn't solve the problem and is barely a band-aid fix at best. The problem is the broken system. I recently (three years ago) ended up with blood clots in my lung which was life threatening and completely random given my lifestyles and level of health. As a result, I now need to be on anti-coagulants for the rest of my days. The medication is super inexpensive and has been around forever so these are good things.

The bad thing is that dealing with labs and doctor offices is an absolute nightmare. When I ask something simple like "What would that cost me cash out-of-pocket?" I get looked at like I just kicked their dog. Nobody asks that question. Ever. So not only do the people you interact with not know they direct you to billing & they also don't even know. People tasks with billing don't even know the prices they're billing.

The end result is this idea that "make me healthy, the cost doesn't matter" only serves to continue increasing the costs of healthcare. Couple that with this false idea that everyone has the right to be healthy 24/7/365 regardless of financial status and you have the recipe for a lot of financial f*ckery.

Meanwhile, elective procedures like "Lasik" continue getting less expensive. Why is that? Because the first thing people do is call around and ask price and ask their friends who did their procedure. Free market at it's finest. For those who say that doesn't work... our current health care system does?

 

[thx1139]

So road tripped to Michigan State to visit my son this past weekend. Had a number of stops for food and coffee on the way up and back and while at MSU. Notice that now everywhere we go we get asked do you want to round up for healthcare for some demographic group, but mostly children.

I also have another son about to go to College and schools he has applied to, his high school and others are bombarding me with how to pay for school. From how to apply for scholarships, work programs, fill out the FAFSA, loans, etc.

It just makes me depressed, not because of the cost, but because of all the effort we go through to avoid a simpler method for healthcare or post high school education. Our country does everything we can to make things more costly for the average every day american and to eat away at you and your families time.

Healthcare for instance I get bombarded by advertisements for places like St. Jude. Every coffee shop, fast food, grocery store all are doing the round up stuff. Amazon has way so that a small percentage of what I spend goes to some charity. I get asked all the time to support GoFundMe campaigns for healthcare. It never stops. Why? All because we have people running around telling us that our healthcare system is the best in the world and something like Medicare 4 All system is basically a communist plot to take over the USA. Yeah that means that all the US friends in this world are communist countries.

It is so depressing that we fall for this nonsense. The fact is we pay so much more and mostly because we insist on doing things an incredibly inefficient way. We pay for healthcare in too many ways to count. We pay for it direct, we pitch in for others through taxes (Medicare), we pitch in for others through guilt trips (round up at the counter), we pay for others when the beg (GoFundMe), we pay for others through insurance (Yes health insurance is paying for others), we pay through it through military budget, we pay for it through car insurance (medical liability). We pay with our money, we pay with our time. All so we can avoid a simpler, likely more effective, likely less expensive method. Simply having 1 national insurance company that all pay into when they work and all providers are paid for is incredibly more efficient.

Letting people confuse the issue by saying how much it will cost is dumb. We already pay for it just in so many ways it is difficult to count it all. Rather then thinking about the issue as how much the govt pays we should think about how much as a nation we pay in every single way. I cant imagine how the avg person in our country does it. My family net-worth is close to $8M and my wife and I bring home salary of over $300K. Health insurance premium for 5 between my wife employer and us was $19K last year with an additional $7K out of pocket. This year it is the same $19K, but out of pocket moving to $12K. It isnt cheaper for a family of 5 that doesnt have our income or wealth. Countries we visit dont have these same crazy issues. They arent communist, they arent socialist, they have free market capitalist economies, but they say some things are basic needs that every person needs. They work the programs into the economy and it works.

In fact our system holds back the economy. My wife and I would retire early if we knew that our health insurance situation would be stable. Cant trust GOP to no bring back pre-existing conditions, yearly and lifetime caps. Cant trust GOP wont start cutting Medicare, cant trust GOP wont try to move eligibility age to 70 or more. This keeps people working who work solely for insurance. This holds wages down. This stops people from moving up the ranks. It stops people from being entrepreneurial. It stops people because of fear. Fear holds us back from doing so many things.

 

[israndy]

Well said THX-1139

Universal healthcare sounds great. Let me know when someone figures out how to implement it. I’ll be waiting.

AND people will be dying

Not concerned...

Sorry if my post wasn't clear, looking for thoughts, I know that can be hard...

The way the poll was written seems somewhat biased. You may as well throw in an option for Medicare for all combined with open borders.

Yeah, I was hoping it would allow me to go back and edit it, I didn't know what all ideas would be good to put in there, hopefully, it will inspire people to post their good ideas here

this false idea that everyone has the right to be healthy 24/7/365 regardless of financial status

Yeah, the issue is that we DO have that right, just wander into any hospital in the USofA with a GSW and they will fix you right up. So saying that we DON'T have that right is rong. When people start to clamp down on free emergency healthcare the press runs stories, even repubs start their crazy "death panel memes"

 

[israndy]

It sounds like most people here think healthcare reform would be bad... You guys did buy Teslas right? I am not talking to trolls here.

It's odd that no one was able to do ANYTHING about healthcare reform for decades and decades (most of my life). Then a brave man came along and used all his political capital from the election and pushed the issue. Republicans fought him on ideological grounds, "Only the wealthy should be healthy". But he got it thru and now we have Obamacare and people do NOT want to go back to the way things were despite the very vocal minority. Most people don't even understand how single-payer works, they just know what they like "Keep the government out of my Medicare!!"

But we are still spending WAY more than most countries with much worse outcomes. If we only had one payer there would be no reason for all the different ways money gets into the system as THX alluded to above, there would be no reason to charge $200 for aspirin as all medical costs would be covered so no reason to artificially inflate costs. No one would be taxed to death because the costs to keep those 1.8 million insurance workers and all the hoops they put in the way of actual healthcare would be removed. And just like Trump's farmers some of the savings could go to getting the old insurance workers fulfilling employment.

The invisible hand of the market is NOT appropriate for things which we would spend ANY amount of money on. That's why we don't have commercial police and fire departments, it's why we shouldn't have for-profit schools and prisons. Some things are too important to be left to the whims of the market. I agree that competition is great for things like ideas "I'm a Mac" "and I'm a PC", and things like efficiencies, Burger King makes McDonalds great. But it MUST always be tempered by the regulations of the government. Lest we all get food poisoning again at Jack in the Box or continue smoking because the company's propaganda is so prevalent.

 

[glide]

It sounds like most people here think healthcare reform would be bad... You guys did buy Teslas right? I am not talking to trolls here.

It's odd that no one was able to do ANYTHING about healthcare reform for decades and decades (most of my life). Then a brave man came along and used all his political capital from the election and pushed the issue. Republicans fought him on ideological grounds, "Only the wealthy should be healthy". But he got it thru and now we have Obamacare and people do NOT want to go back to the way things were despite the very vocal minority. Most people don't even understand how single-payer works, they just know what they like "Keep the government out of my Medicare!!"

But we are still spending WAY more than most countries with much worse outcomes. If we only had one payer there would be no reason for all the different ways money gets into the system as THX alluded to above, there would be no reason to charge $200 for aspirin as all medical costs would be covered so no reason to artificially inflate costs. No one would be taxed to death because the costs to keep those 1.8 million insurance workers and all the hoops they put in the way of actual healthcare would be removed. And just like Trump's farmers some of the savings could go to getting the old insurance workers fulfilling employment.

The invisible hand of the market is NOT appropriate for things which we would spend ANY amount of money on. That's why we don't have commercial police and fire departments, it's why we shouldn't have for-profit schools and prisons. Some things are too important to be left to the whims of the market. I agree that competition is great for things like ideas "I'm a Mac" "and I'm a PC", and things like efficiencies, Burger King makes McDonalds great. But it MUST always be tempered by the regulations of the government. Lest we all get food poisoning again at Jack in the Box or continue smoking because the company's propaganda is so prevalent.

Just because people here bought Tesla’s does not mean they are all socialists or eco-warriors.
Maybe that is the disconnect? Or maybe you’re the one that’s trolling?

I wouldn’t say everyone here thinks Healthcare reform is a bad idea, just that the current ideas being tossed about to reform it are bad.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Actually, I can see now that you want to have a political debate which I'm not interested in. I thought you genuinely wanted to discuss how to solve the health care crisis regardless of political party affiliation. As long as we keep seeing this problem (among many others) as a political debate it's not going to get better.

 

[strider]

Your poll choices are missing the only ACTUAL answer. The ONLY way to fix healthcare is to go after cost. There are 100+ year old laws on the books (Robinson-Patman)that would drop healthcare costs by 80%. All you need to do it start locking up hospital, pharma, and insurance company execs and costs will drop overnight.

Imagine if you pulled up to a gas station and there were no prices anywhere. Only after you pumped your gas and inserted your auto insurance card would you be shown the price. That gas station owner would be locked up. The same laws apply to healthcare. Twice they have gone to the supreme court claiming exemptions to 100+ year old law and they have been denied both times. But not one candidate in any party will simply use the power of the executive to enforce the law.

Also, in what other industry do you, the customer, have to pay for the providers mistakes? Imagine if you took your car to a shop to have the brakes fixed or something. While working on it, the mechanic drops the car off the lift. The mechanic then presents you with a bill to repair the damage they caused. The healthcare industry does this EVERY DAY. They give you an infection due to their carelessness and they bill you for that too.

This would also fix the state and local pension problem. Their cost explosions are due to healthcare cost increases.

It really is that simple. Yet not one person running for office will say no to the lobbyists and enforce the law. This could be done at the state and county level too. Again, it would fix their pension problems overnight.

Medicare for all will not fix the cost ramps. Medicare spending is up exponentially this year (12.9% yoy, drug spending up 37% yoy). Tell me again how this will save us money?

 

[Lloyd]

No answer above is correct.

Single payer is not the answer, Obama care was meant to transition to single payer. Don't let the government decide what treatment you need and get!

We should keep the private insurance and self pay, but there needs to be a safety net for those uninsured. I believe we should expand and improve the VA system as needed to handle these individuals.

 

[outdoors]

I would like to see costs estimated or exact cost of care prior to it being administered. Sign here or along the way during care. So I can look them in the eye when I get a $12 aspirin. There will be complaints about how it will slow down care.....can it get worse?

It happens at a car service department. Why not medical care? I have heard half hearted attempts at it, but no blanket solution. You get care. He is what it costs. For all. Insured or not.

Maybe then we would have the consumer reports of hospitals that looks at costs as well as medical outcomes.

Hopefully that is non political, and a start on many potential solutions.

 

[SDRick]

However healthcare evolves price transparency it is essential unless healthcare becomes free and then no user\patient will care what it costs.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Healthcare is pretty simple.

Everyone wants somebody else to pay for their excellent healthcare.
When somebody else is paying, they pay little attention to the costs.

As long as 3rd parties are mandated to cover costs, Hospitals/MDs can pretty much charge what they want. When you are sick, you do not usually care about the bill until it arrives. Hard to shop around for price. Some providers even offer payment plans for those short on cash.

Few will price shop before authorizing an ambulance ride to the hospital with a heart attack. They bill therfore is often jaw dropping.

If every provider was forced to list their services prices, then we could shop around. There are already services that rate hospitals on the quality of their care.

Most everybody in US has access to emergency medical care. Poor get it at emergency rooms, rich get it from their family doctors, workers get it through their employee, some pay privately for their coverage, and rarely is that a patient pays the bill as they leave the Dr. office or hospital. Even some pharmacies have walk in urgent care mini-clinics. Get a flu shot, prescription, blood pressure check, pick some insulin, a pack of needles, or even a few stitches or band aid.

There are also tons of pay for service providers that don't get covered by insurance. Lasix, Plastic Surgery, eyeglasses, hearing aids, tattoo parlors, hair implants, accupuncture, massage, skin resurfacing, laser, ciropractic, exercise, yoga, the options seem to be endless.

I even get solicited by a local lab test company to get customer pay medical blood and urine testing.

Healthcare seems to be readily available for most.

Many still fall through the cracks. I believe the current biggest issue is getting healthcare to the people on the streets. There are also hundreds of thousands of people from other countries that sneak into this country with no medical clearance, documentation and no jobs. Their are some free clinics opening near the encampments, but they have challenges to garner funding.

Except for a few, very wealthy (usually oil money) socialist countries, most that offer free healthcare revert to throttling to keep costs under control. Many die waiting for services, and many services are not offered at all.

 

[thx1139]

Just because people here bought Tesla’s does not mean they are all socialists or eco-warriors.
Maybe that is the disconnect? Or maybe you’re the one that’s trolling?

I wouldn’t say everyone here thinks Healthcare reform is a bad idea, just that the current ideas being tossed about to reform it are bad.

Was one of your reasons for purchasing a Tesla was because they are more efficient? Do you believe that with less moving parts to go bad that a Tesla should require less maintenance.

Why shouldnt we do the same with health insurance. Lets be clear we are talking health insurance. We are not talking about healthcare providers when Medicare 4 All is proposed. All those entities stay the same. It is simply that they all get paid from 1 single solitary entity.

Think about what that means. Think about how much more efficient that is. An example that last complicated thing my family went through was when my teenage son had appendicitis.

We took him to the ER. Eventually he got admitted and had surgery the same day and was released the next day. About 28 hours total in the hospital. Yet we had 8 different bills to pay. We had to wait for all the entities to submit bills to the insurance company. Then we started getting the bill. We had to make sure that the insurance paid what it was supposed to pay. Then we had to pay the bills. My preferred way to pay is via online with a Credit Card. Hey I want the miles. Some of the providers didnt take online payment. Some wouldnt take a credit card. Some only took a check and no online or pay over phone. All in all it is a very inefficient time suck.

Change this to single payer and with how Medicare 4 all is proposed. 100% coverage by Medicare. We go on and same providers do all the work and they all submit bills to Medicare and they all get paid by Medicare. We dont need to take the time to manage and pay the providers. The providers only need to submit bills to 1 place. They never need to submit to patients. They dont need to go back and forth with patients that dont pay or pay slowly. They providers dont write off patients that never paid and then turn around and up the price of everything.

What changes for the people is that Medicare tax in paycheck goes up and the current health insurance tax (premiums are a tax) goes away.

All the nonsense goes away. We save time and likely money.

 

[thx1139]

No answer above is correct.

Single payer is not the answer, Obama care was meant to transition to single payer. Don't let the government decide what treatment you need and get!

We should keep the private insurance and self pay, but there needs to be a safety net for those uninsured. I believe we should expand and improve the VA system as needed to handle these individuals.

That is not single payer. Obamacare was meant to regulate health insurance so no one could be turned away, insurance couldnt just charge you until you got sick then cut you off, health insurance couldnt say you hit a lifetime or annual limit. That and subsidy people with less money. It was never a gateway to single payer. In fact the item that would have a made it a gateway to single payer was not allowed to be part of it. Otherwise Obamcare would never have made it out of the Senate. Blue Dog Democrats and Independents made sure of that.

 

[thx1139]

I would like to see costs estimated or exact cost of care prior to it being administered. Sign here or along the way during care. So I can look them in the eye when I get a $12 aspirin. There will be complaints about how it will slow down care.....can it get worse?

It happens at a car service department. Why not medical care? I have heard half hearted attempts at it, but no blanket solution. You get care. He is what it costs. For all. Insured or not.

Maybe then we would have the consumer reports of hospitals that looks at costs as well as medical outcomes.

Hopefully that is non political, and a start on many potential solutions.

It sounds great, but until you are admitted with something that isnt a simple solution it falls down. Have you never had car service where once they went in they discovered additional issues? What if they couldnt even open the hood before they gave a diagnosis. How much more costly would be to have the wiper changed if the car service department was required to fix cars for people who couldnt pay. That $12 aspirin isnt $12 because of how much it costs. It is $12 because of how many dont pay bills or only partial pay. Sorry the Dr. isnt going to bill you the pennies it cost because you are good for it and charge the person who isnt $1000 for the same pill.

 

[israndy]

Actually, I can see now that you want to have a political debate

I may have reacted to the golden trump monument posted by @Leeclanual. It's hard when you are being trolled.

 

[outdoors]

It sounds great, but until you are admitted with something that isnt a simple solution it falls down. Have you never had car service where once they went in they discovered additional issues? What if they couldnt even open the hood before they gave a diagnosis. How much more costly would be to have the wiper changed if the car service department was required to fix cars for people who couldnt pay. That $12 aspirin isnt $12 because of how much it costs. It is $12 because of how many dont pay bills or only partial pay. Sorry the Dr. isnt going to bill you the pennies it cost because you are good for it and charge the person who isnt $1000 for the same pill.

I get when your removing an appendix and you discover......

Another issue entirely. My big thing is standardization of cost. Might be a dream for that I understand. Solve the uninsured problem we might have standardization of cost. As in show me the cost. It truly is an unknown, and people say that is just fine. If they can't pay. Well that is where spread out costing has come about.

Too bad for the poor painter that falls off his ladder. Wants to pay cash for his wrap and set on his broken arm. Has to pay for all the people that never did. Does he/she get a cash promise to pay the bill discount. Nope. Not right now. Pays for all.

I personally pay for private medical care outside of my insurance plan. I feel I get more honest medicine when I do that. When needed I go use my insurance.