Meeting Tesla HK Bus Development Mgr on May 13.......

[markwj]

I think the main limitation would be the doubling of car parking spots. Those are a real limiting factor.

Also, if you're talking about 120kW divided by four spots, that is 30kW per spot.

A three phase 32A is 21kW. And that is a lot simpler and cheaper to deploy. Cable is longer and can cover more parking spots as well.

 

[ediot]

----- alien/ 4 arm / 120kw/ 32A 3 phase chargers ---------
120kw is only divided by four spots to get 30kw per spot, only if four cars get parked at approximately the same time and all with approximate low level (say 20%) of battery. by the same argument, the current superchargers only provide 60kw per spot since it's 120kw divided by two - the main point here being that the level of power can be directed towards any single one charging arm out of four, like how current arrangment can direct the power towards either one of the two charging arms.

a 3 phase 32A would still be good, that's really just a discussion on level of power to supply. the two main points that i'd like to focus on, however, being that:
1) more cars can be plugged in at any given time, so owners dont have to physically wait to get plugged in/ come to unplug once charged as much
2) when the area is less busy, more power can be directed towards the lone cars being charged so they get juiced faster

i understand how having chargers covering more spots can be an issue since that kinda make original parking spots "tesla exclusive", and the carpark owning company essentially loses available spaces to conventional ICE cars. But if we flip the script here for a moment, more often than not the charging spots are overcrowded, having more available charging spots could be part of a shopping mall/carpark's marketing campaign to attract a demographic that are, generally speaking, in a higher income bracket and have higher spending budgets. it COULD be a win/win, although more objective data gathering may be required (or it may even reject my point, since i'm going on personal observation/ speculation here)

-------- valet service --------
now for the valet discussion, i definitely agree that this would be the fastest, easiest workaround to the current issue we're dealing with in HK. I've dumped another wall of text on another thread regarding partnership with carwashing companies, which i'm not too sure on the actual viability.
Having a Tesla staff to do valet in hong kong may face some issues not dealt with in the current valet chargers in the US, i.e. insurance, and having a working employee operating full time inside another company's carpark - having carwashing companies show that it can be done, but i wonder how many individual car park owning companies Tesla would have to deal with, or would it end up being a limited location rollout.
would there be software support from Tesla regarding valet surface? would the Tesla employee have some sort of app to help him manage all the queuing/ charging, the kind of data that car owners are also interested in? (e.g. wouldn't you want to know how far in the queue until you're up for a charging spot?) Does the employee just set a stopwatch timer and notes on pen and paper as to when's the next car due to get fully juiced and he can move it? more over, do i just drive near a charger then hand over my key to some guy in a tesla shirt? call this paranoia until somebody gets their car taken out for a joyride and ends up in a ditch.
these issues may be more particular to HK atm, but i'd imagine some other places would deal with no identical, but similar issues.

 

[mattse]

ediot is right, and I believe even if the valet is paid $100k per month, you still can’t stop them from responding to “incentive” from "customers".

I once charged in Olympian City during dinner time, four cars were there when I arrived, I waited for 1 hour for my turn, charged for 1 hour (and had dinner during this 1 hour), and when I left, the other three cars I saw 2 hours ago were still there. We all know this is what happens everyday, everywhere in HK, and I don’t see any way we can stop people from being selfish. So I would suggest Tesla consider planning new supercharging stations with each cable accessible by two parking spaces (front and back). The cable can be unlocked (say by phone app) so that another car can charge while the first car’s owner releases the cable remotely. Let’s say the second car owner can send a message to the first one via the Tesla app to ask him do so and get a feedback if the first car still charging (we can add more details to make it feasible). This is far from ideal but people can still park their car while the same supercharger cable can be used by another car compared to what we are having right now. There is no increase in installation cost, but need some input from the software team.

 

[mattse]

I don't think that would affect the legal situation. At the time of sale, Tesla promised this. Breaking that promise could land them in court.

I'm really hoping for a workaround, and have had many discussions with Tesla about it. Even if they could stop it for new owners (so new conditions would state not for commercial use or something like that), it would at least solve the problem in the long run. But, that goes against the corporate policy of unlimited, free for life.

Talking about legal situation, can Tesla ban the lifetime use of supercharger if a owner uses it for illegal purpose? Currently the govt says Uber is illegal (though I doubt if the govt is right on this), that may be a way forward. I know it's a long long way before anyone can prove someone is supercharging for illegal purpose but this should be a good enough gesture to ask Uber driver play nice.

 

[Optic]

I don't think the uber drivers are not nice. It is more of a conflict of interest between the layman and uber drivers. Both uber and over parking drivers is hurting EV adoption. Even without these two cases, it is inevitable to queues to form as EV sales is outpacing SC growth. If space or power requirements is hard to come by, perhaps it is better if Tesla install 10x destination chargers at shopping malls instead (ie harbor city, times square, pacific place, elements, IFC). A pair of super chargers is equivalent to 12x 40A destination charger output. At least this type of drivers are real consumers and are welcomed by the shopping malls. If I was a real estate developer, I would not welcome super chargers, it brings taxi drivers who clog up the parkade that don't spend at the malls.

 

[nghktom]

thanks. valet charging is good. However, to make it easier. How about the existing supercharger are only free for the first 2 hours, thereafter, HKD100 per hour or part thereof. We simply need to move the Tesla driver away from the charger once the vehicle is charged.

 

[ediot]

thanks. valet charging is good. However, to make it easier. How about the existing supercharger are only free for the first 2 hours, thereafter, HKD100 per hour or part thereof. We simply need to move the Tesla driver away from the charger once the vehicle is charged.

how would you propose Tesla implement this HKD100 per hour charge? Tesla has also announced that supercharger is 'free for life' for the buyers, i fear that it's kinda difficult to go back on their word on that

 

[Deswong]

Hi everyone,

I am meeting Tesla's business development manager - Mr Julian de Jonquieres for a group Lunch on May 13. Julian is responsible for building partnerships with government, companies and utilities that make the ownership of electric vehicles as convenient as possible for Tesla drivers. He has a particular focus on charging infrastructure.

Any feedback or suggestions from Tesla owners on this forum would be welcome before I meet him. Clearly, with the growing popularity of Tesla vehicles in HK, a lot of owners are growing in frustration at the limited availability of Supercharger slots and experiencing various difficulties in getting residential (as well as commercial & office) buildings to help adopt charging.

I look forward to proposing my idea of a Valet charging service. My guess is that at any given point in time probably half of the slots taken are by Tesla's which are already fully charged. A Valet service would effectively increase the utilization of the spots. You don't want to see a vehicle parked at a supercharger all day or beyond the time required to fully charge the vehicle. Also from a convenience perspective, if you are going to the mall and intend to be there for several hours, you can rest assured that your car would be fully charged when you get back even if all slots are occupied.

While superchargers outside of HK are typically used for long distance travel, chargers in HK are principally used because people cannot charge at home.

From Tesla's perspective, it may be more economic to invest in Valet service staff rather than increasing the number of superchargers by the same degree. Another option would be to charge Tesla owners who leave their car charging when the battery is fully charged beyond a certain point.

I suspect they will need to consider this because once the Tesla Model X and Model 3 start hitting the streets of HK, they would need to build A LOT more superchargers so introducing a Valet service would increase the utilization of existing charging stations substantially.

---

Anyway, interested to hear if you have any further suggestions. (I will also talk about the relatively poor build quality of many of the Tesla vehicle sold and the lack of staff and service centers they have to cater for these issues).

Cheers.

Without increasing the number of chargers, valet service is undoubtedly the best solution as it could maximise the use of SC and meet the parking need of owners at the same time. I am not too sure about how car cleaner works but it may be subject to the vacancy of carpark. When the carpark is fully occupied, which is not uncommon during peak hours at most SC locations, I doubt how efficient the valet can move around the cars. Maybe it is feasible but just that I am not too sure about.

Making SC chargable by surrounding cars but not just one car can be helpful.

The most effective way I could think about is to implement a charging policy to enforce fair use of SC. By giving sth beneficial to owners in return for signing off on the new charging policy on a voluntary basis, it may minimise the legal risk of Tesla. In addition, while tesla cannot implement charges on using SC, there is no saying that other party (non tesla) such as carpark mgt or a contractor cannot levy penalty or additional parking fee.

 

[ck1116]

I would suggest limit to 10-20 charges at SC per month per car, few people will drive that much. This can be done via Tesla server/software easier.

 

[Deswong]

I would suggest limit to 10-20 charges at SC per month per car, few people will drive that much. This can be done via Tesla server/software easier.

Then it may require owners signing another "contract" or addendum to legally allow Tesla to do so.

 

[Silverbird]

I suggest that a timer be set at each SC, during charging, the timer will show the time required for a full charge, after fully charged, the timer starts counting, after 15 to 30 minutes, a red light will be light up to indicate the car was occupying the space excessively. Then most of the drivers will drive their car away after the charge. Furthermore, messages can be sent to the owner if the car was not unplugged after half an hour with a note that someone is waiting for your space.

 

[Lerxt]

Here's a novel idea...how about people behave in a civilized manner when it comes to charging?

 

[ediot]

Here's a novel idea...how about people behave in a civilized manner when it comes to charging?

that works in an ideal world, or when any community is small enough to remain tight knitted. We're getting way past that in HK in terms of number of Tesla owners already, and with the Model X and Model 3 owners on the way, going on etiquette alone is unfortunately not very viable.

The aim is to find a way to align incentives of each entity (the gov, carpark owners, Tesla, the many tesla owners including commercial drivers, etc) to come to a mutually beneficial arrangment, i believe.

 

[Silverbird]

Tesla can talk with the government to install some destination chargers in place with the existing 13A chargers in government car parks. These 13A are really useless and most of them are ICEd. Furthermore, as I suggested before they can install SC in some less busy car parking lots like the one at the bus exchange terminal at Tuen Mun and the one outside the exhibition center of the Airport bridge where there are toilets and sufficient electricity. People will just wait at their car during charging and left once it is done.
Every SC should have at least 4 SC so that the turnover is fast. I never dare to go to those with only 2 terminals, because once they are occupied, you have to wait a long time. Please try to increase the no of chargers in each SC , I noticed that in other countries, there are as many as 20 terminals in one place.

 

[markwj]

Tesla can talk with the government to install some destination chargers in place with the existing 13A chargers in government car parks.

Sorry to be the nay-sayer again, but government won't allow any manufacturer-specific chargers in its car parks. They can't be seen to be favouring one manufacturer over another. It is a real shame that Tesla can't just provide chargers that work with any EV (standard type II), but I can understand their reasoning.

 

[Jason90]

I think Tesla could allow the car to unlock the supercharger cable once charging was complete - perhaps showing a single steady green light to alert other drivers, who could then unplug the car and plug in their car - assuming there is space to park within reach of the cable?

 

[Jason90]

ediot is right, and I believe even if the valet is paid $100k per month, you still can’t stop them from responding to “incentive” from "customers".

edit makes some very valuable points, but I think Tesla could probably arrange (virtual or physical) numbered queueing system, much like deli counters in supermarkets. You take a number, a sign over each space or charger displays the number of the car being charged, you take your place in the queue or let the valet do it for you. This will reduce the chances of time-pressed and rich-but-not-rich-enough-to-have-their-own-private-charger-at-home (if any exist) from tipping the valets to let them jump the queue. We'll all have to tip the valets something anyway, to avoid unfortunate scrapes from 'other drivers'...

 

[GSP]

Tesla's new HPWC for Europe uses a Type 2 plug, and can work with any EV that has a Type 2 inlet. Since Tesla's HK cars have the Type 2 inlet (please correct me if this is wrong), the new HPWC should be a great solution for HK public charging, capable of up to 22 kW (60 mph) charging, and no issues with incompatibility with other EVs. Four of them can intelligently share a single circuit, even if the cars being charged are not Teslas.

Superchargers are Tesla-specific, but even this could change in the long term.

Elon has said he wants to work with the HK authorities to make HK an example to the world of how EV charging can be provided for dense urban areas. I really hope HK and Tesla succeeds in this, and wish all of you living in HK the best.

GSP

Link to Euro HPWC info posted by "arg" (very knowledgable UK resident):

New Wall Connector :)

 

[kcin]

One suggestion to better utilize Supercharger is to disallow charging when the battery is almost full, say 90+% when the charging efficiency becomes very low, and require the owner to move the car to fast/mid-speed chargers for the last 10%. I rarely do my last 10% on Superchargers.

 

[Lerxt]

You shouldn't be charging above 90% normally. It has a dramatic effect on reducing battery life.