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Merits of Conversions

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,537
42,966
Central New York
Certainly, but you can buy a Siamese 9 from Jim Husted, who did the Siamese 9 in the Zombie, and you might be able to still get a Z2K from Otmar. The combo is about $14K. Source the batteries to support those components, and do the suspension work to keep the wheels hooked up, and you're pretty close.
 

qwk

P130DL
Dec 19, 2008
3,024
766
I get what you are saying about competition between the two, but it's only because the very limited prduction of ev's. When it comes to mass production, it a totally different scenario. The leaf is based on the versa. A versa buyer is definately not in the same market segment as the rav4. There is absolutely no doubt that the limited production that toyota announced will sell out.

The conversion I was talking about has to have very similar things like,
performance, power everything, a/c, range, charge times, navigation etc.
 

qwk

P130DL
Dec 19, 2008
3,024
766
Certainly, but you can buy a Siamese 9 from Jim Husted, who did the Siamese 9 in the Zombie, and you might be able to still get a Z2K from Otmar. The combo is about $14K. Source the batteries to support those components, and do the suspension work to keep the wheels hooked up, and you're pretty close.

You are forgetting about so many other items that add up very fast when dealing with those track times.

First you need a car, then
rear end to support the power
driveline and loop
slicks and wheels
roll cage
5pt harness

that is just a few things of the top of my head, there is many more, and they add up FAST.
 

jasonhi

Roadster 2.5 #1135
May 1, 2010
55
7
Bothell, WA
Certainly, but you can buy a Siamese 9 from Jim Husted, who did the Siamese 9 in the Zombie, and you might be able to still get a Z2K from Otmar. The combo is about $14K. Source the batteries to support those components, and do the suspension work to keep the wheels hooked up, and you're pretty close.

It looks like John's got most of the details of the car on the history page (http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/history/2010.php). I have no idea what the battery pack will cost, but add that, suspension and drive shaft/rear end (you really need those parts to handle the power), plus add in the cost of the car (and restoration needed)... pretty sure you're over that $30k mark just in raw materials.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,537
42,966
Central New York
The whole Zombie comparison is getting a little off track. I brought it up merely to point out that you can build a fast vehicle, even a Roadster beater, without using Tesla technology and for less money. Zombie had better times than Tesla years ago in a lead acid version. CroDriver did it with an old BMW, Warp11, Zilla, and Headways

 
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qwk

P130DL
Dec 19, 2008
3,024
766
The whole Zombie comparison is getting a little off track. I brought it up merely to point out that you can build a fast vehicle, even a Roadster beater, without using Tesla technology and for less money. Zombie had better times than Tesla years ago in a lead acid version. CroDriver did it with an old BMW, Warp11, Zilla, and Headways


Like I mentioned before, comparing the zombie to the roadster is silly. The only thing they have in common is they are both an EV. That's it.

The roadster is a exotic like car with carbon fiber body, aluminum frame, leather 244 mile RANGE.....
The zombie is a purposly built track $hitbox, 100 mile RANGEwith nothing in common with above said car.

I would bet $$ that you could take a light $hitbox car, stuff a stock roadster drivetrain in it with a top of the line battery pack, and run right with the zombie. I actually thought about it, BUT you still end up with a VERY SLOW, UGLY car compared to ICE cars for a whole lot more money.

The video you posted proves absolutely nothing. Racing on the street has wayyyyy to many variables to compare car ability.
 
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JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,537
42,966
Central New York
Like I mentioned before, comparing the zombie to the roadster is silly. The only thing they have in common is they are both an EV. That's it.

The roadster is a exotic like car with carbon fiber body, aluminum frame, leather 244 mile RANGE.....
The zombie is a purposly built track $hitbox, 100 mile RANGEwith nothing in common with above said car.
If you don't need the extra range it really doesn't matter much, and what do the carbon fiber and leather do other than stroke your ego? You think most people even know it's carbon under the paint, or that you're sitting on leather? Who cares?
I would bet $$ that you could take a light $hitbox car, stuff a stock roadster drivetrain in it with a top of the line battery pack, and run right with the zombie.
Maybe, but AC induction motors don't have the low end torque of series DC, so you still might lose.
 

qwk

P130DL
Dec 19, 2008
3,024
766
If you don't need the extra range it really doesn't matter much, and what do the carbon fiber and leather do other than stroke your ego? You think most people even know it's carbon under the paint, or that you're sitting on leather? Who cares?
Maybe, but AC induction motors don't have the low end torque of series DC, so you still might lose.
Carbon fiber is super light and it doesn't rust. If you think that Tesla used aluminum and carbon fiber to stroke egos I have some oceanfront property in missouri to sell you.

The Roadster motor weighs around 100 lbs, how much does a similar hp dc motor weigh?
Since EV's have to pack extra weight around because of the battery, making them lighter is a no brainer.

100 miles is not enough range for most people if that is their only car. This is especially true after a few years of battery degredation or winter time use.

Why is it that you park your EV for the winter again? Exactly my point.

Tesla is light years ahead of EVERY auto manufacturer period. They are the only ones with a common sense approach to EV's.
Sexy body lines, light chassis/body/drivetrain, great range, great performance, no more sleazy car salesman or dealerships, battery temp management.....

Anybody that thinks otherwise is in denial or the competition.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,537
42,966
Central New York
Carbon fiber is super light and it doesn't rust. If you think that Tesla used aluminum and carbon fiber to stroke egos I have some oceanfront property in missouri to sell you.
Other composites don't rust either and can be fairly light.
The Roadster motor weighs around 100 lbs, how much does a similar hp dc motor weigh?
More, sort of. It's a trick question, electric motors don't make horse power, battery packs do, the motor just has to survive while transferring that power.
Since EV's have to pack extra weight around because of the battery, making them lighter is a no brainer.
Yup, probably why Zombie is lighter than a Roadster, even with a heavier motor, without using carbon fiber too. I know, I know, shitbox, no leather and nav system. Record breaking shitbox of course.
100 miles is not enough range for most people if that is their only car. This is especially true after a few years of battery degredation or winter time use.

Why is it that you park your EV for the winter again? Exactly my point.
Your point is road salt? Because that's why my EV is parked.
Tesla is light years ahead of EVERY auto manufacturer period. They are the only ones with a common sense approach to EV's.
Yes a $100,000 2 seater is certainly the epitome of common sense.
Sexy body lines, light chassis/body/drivetrain, great range, great performance, no more sleazy car salesman or dealerships, battery temp management.....

Anybody that thinks otherwise is in denial or the competition.
Sorry but I'm neither. Tesla did a great job with the Roadster but Nissan looks to be the first manufacturer to get large volumes of EV's into the hands of the most people. The LEAF will expose more of the population to real world EV use than Tesla probably ever will and therefor directly influence more people. Tesla had to go through great lengths to manage their battery temperature because their chemistry choice is very sensitive to it. Other chemistries, Nissan's for example, are less so and need less management. Sure Tesla has good range, it's a $100+K vehicle. Don't get me wrong, I love the Roadster and what Tesla has done for the EV movement. I'm just not sure they are the appropriate choice for the RAV4EV, which was my original point in case you've forgotten.
 

qwk

P130DL
Dec 19, 2008
3,024
766
I love the way you dodge questions. I know that in order to get the most power out of a certain motor you have to have a certain battery cappacity. A DC motor capable of the same power output as Tesla's motor without burning up weighs 3+X more. I'm sure
You also know that DC motors are not the best choice for performance applications.

What other lightweight materials are you talking about?
Fiberglass? That is not cheap either, and not even close as strong.

I don't know any people that are willing to spend $30+k on a car without power windows etc., especially with 100 mile or less range. A 100 mile range EV is unrealistic as your only car, do I have to say this anymore?

You do realize that a startup car company cant mass produce a car without billions of dollars, which Tesla does not have.

I admire Nissan for having the nuts to build an EV, but at the current price, Nissan is losing money on every Leaf, even before the tax credit. I'm not sure if they can sell in large volumes, I guess we will know in a few years.

Like I mentioned before, the zombie is a purpose built drag car. I would hope it can beat a factory built ev that is not even remotely engineered for drag racing.
The sad part is that for the money he has in that car, he could have had a roadster AND an ICE car that runs faster than 10's.

You still haven't bothered to show me any decent conversions. It probably can be done, but talk is cheap.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
19,537
42,966
Central New York
I love the way you dodge questions. I know that in order to get the most power out of a certain motor you have to have a certain battery cappacity. A DC motor capable of the same power output as Tesla's motor without burning up weighs 3+X more. I'm sure
You also know that DC motors are not the best choice for performance applications.
That's why every record breaking EV dragster uses a series DC motor. Sure. What question did I dodge? I said the motor weighs more, so what? It has to be because it can transfer more torque than the Roadster motor. Roadster motor is around 300ft. lbs, DC motors can do over 500ft. lbs. It's like saying a 454 V8 weighs more than a 350 V8.
What other lightweight materials are you talking about?
Fiberglass? That is not cheap either, and not even close as strong.
Fiberglass isn't that expensive, never said it was as strong, but what does Lotus build the Elise out of? Apparently fiberglass is strong enough for that car.
I don't know any people that are willing to spend $30+k on a car without power windows etc....
Lotus Elise again.
.... especially with 100 mile or less range. A 100 mile range EV is unrealistic as your only car, do I have to say this anymore?
Just because you can't comprehend the fact that not everyone needs to travel hundreds of miles or cares to do so doesn't make it true. Do you realize there are even some people who don't even own a car? OMFG! Of course a 100 mile EV can be an only car for some people, but who said everyone buying a 100 mile car will only have one vehicle anyway? Most households have at least two which means for most households a 100 mile EV is fine.
You do realize that a startup car company cant mass produce a car without billions of dollars, which Tesla does not have.
Of course, but that sort of kills your statement that "Tesla is light years ahead of every manufacturer, period." They certainly are not in production volume or in getting cars out to the average person.

The sad part is that for the money he has in that car, he could have had a roadster AND an ICE car that runs faster than 10's.
I guess he thought it would be more interesting to build a fast EV, especially since the Roadster didn't exist when he started.
You still haven't bothered to show me any decent conversions. It probably can be done, but talk is cheap.
Why would I waste my time? I'm sure it would be a shitbox if it didn't have leather seats, diamond turn signal indicators, or some other arbitrary bling that you deem necessary. Do your own research.
 

qwk

P130DL
Dec 19, 2008
3,024
766
You prove my point more and more with each post. I have done my research and that's why I have my deposit on a Model S. Yeah sure there are cheaper options, but they only get 40-50 miles per charge and people park them for the winter because they rust.
 

doug

Administrator / Head Moderator
Nov 28, 2006
16,886
984
SF Bay Area
I split these posts off from the RAV4 EV thread since it was off topic and probably not what most wanted to read there. Feel free to continue your discussion here. I've only skimmed the posts, so feel free to suggest a more appropriate thread title if you have one.
 
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