Michelin Pilot Sport 4S versus Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5 tires versus Michelin Cross Climate+ ?

[pdk42]

I have MPS4S tyres on my current 335i. They are without doubt the best tyre I've ever used. Grip in both wet and dry conditions is excellent and noise is well controlled. Wear is pretty good too. I don't think they are available in 18" in the UK though since I also run an old Audi TT with 18" rims and tried to get the same tyres for that recently but had to fall back to the MPS4 version since the S wasn't available in 18".

However, I also have a set of proper winter tyres (Sotto zeros) which I use from late Oct through to March. I think they definitely work better as the temperature approaches zero and of course they totally outclass the Michelin summer tyres in snow or ice.

 

[dspwhite]

and tried to get the same tyres for that recently but had to fall back to the MPS4 version since the S wasn't available in 18".

You guys are right. I can't seem to find the PS4S in the UK as 235/45-18". I mean one could import them, but that could add another say £100 import fees/tax for all I know. Do you think the PS4 will perform better in the cold (say -5C to 7C) than the PS4S?

 

[m3p_uk]

You guys are right. I can't seem to find the PS4S in the UK as 235/45-18". I mean one could import them, but that could add another say £100 import fees/tax for all I know. Do you think the PS4 will perform better in the cold (say -5C to 7C) than the PS4S?

Single or dual Motor?
Either way I would not worry too much about the difference between them. Dual Motor will have much more grip anyway and if single motor then you probably want to get some proper winter tyres otherwise the rear wheel drive will slide in the cold

 

[pdk42]

Remember of course that AWD will help you get moving in snow and ice, but it'll do little or nothing to help you get around a corner or stop.

 

[Daverh]

Remember of course that AWD will help you get moving in snow and ice, but it'll do little or nothing to help you get around a corner or stop.

Yep!

 

[dspwhite]

Single or dual Motor

Dual.

 

[WannabeOwner]

What you'll see from a lot of tyre tests in in cold and wet conditions (like we see in the UK) a high performance summer tyre will outperform a winter tyre

I've read similar tests, and my experience is purely subjective, but I drove the Model-S first winter on the originally provided Pirelli's, and the following winter on Nokians. I don't remember there being snow more than a couple of days those winters, and there were no no horrific plunging cold (in this part of the country). My subjective view is that Nokians were far more sure footed day-to-day; based on the number of "wasn't expecting that" from the Summers and none that I can remember on the Winters.

Can we get replacement Tesla OEMs?

Yes, I've seen them listed. e.g. this for Model-S PS4 Camskill - actually checking their site a bit all their 19" Acoustics PS4 are OEM (Volvo and Audi), not sure if that is actually OEM or just "Branding" of the same Michelins; Camskill have non-OEM Michelin Primacy 3 Acoustic

I'm not sure the foam inserts make much difference ... when i changed mine (3+ year old car, originals did not have foam) the sound changed to a lower noise, and I noticed it immediately. Got used to it now, but I would say it was different rather than quieter, so even if measurably quieter on a meter I'm not sure it is "significant".

On model-3 spending some effort on aero may result in more noise improvement - rubber inserts for the roof lines etc. The Model-3 is significant more noisy than Model-S (not noisy compared to ICE, just comparing the two). iPace is quieter than Model-S, but you can still hear the pick-up whine of the motor (I like the "turbine sound" in both ...), whereas the EQC is silent in that regard ...

Have you lot worn out your original set of tyres already?

 

[AndrewR]

I've read similar tests, and my experience is purely subjective, but I drove the Model-S first winter on the originally provided Pirelli's, and the following winter on Nokians. I don't remember there being snow more than a couple of days those winters, and there were no no horrific plunging cold (in this part of the country). My subjective view is that Nokians were far more sure footed day-to-day; based on the number of "wasn't expecting that" from the Summers and none that I can remember on the Winters.

That's the problem with virtually all tyre tests, they are incredibly subjective. This is why I put little trust in the "MyTyres" or "TyreReviews" sites and what they show as it's Joe public giving an opinion. I'm happy to take recommendations from Evo/AutoExpress etc as they do these tests in a controlled environment, same car, same tyre size etc.

My only winter driving experience was on studded winters in Iceland in March, but that was driving on ice and 10-15cm deep snow

If you feel safer with winter tyres on your car in winter, then that to me is enough justification to buy them. Confident drivers are safer drivers (providing you don't get overconfident!)

 

[WannabeOwner]

I can't seem to find the PS4S in the UK as 235/45-18"

I need to ask Camskill for a referral code! assuming I've picked what you were referring to my link above is to PS4S

I'm happy to take recommendations from Evo/AutoExpress etc as they do these tests in a controlled environment, same car, same tyre size etc.

Fully agree. I don't remember seeing a test of "Normal UK winter roads", but rather "Proper snow, cold climate" ... but its a lot time sine I've bought a, quaint, paper magazine and those sort of online sites think that if I enabled my ad-blocker I would actually click through their advertising links ... so chances are good that I've missed something useful and relevant

 

[m3p_uk]

Yep!

Accelerated way too fast before swerving and hitting the car. Should have stopped and checked for damage and left a note on the car they hit!

Also worth mentioning that winter tyres might still slip about. They will give you much more grip but don't defy the laws of physics so can slide about if not careful.

 

[AndrewR]

so chances are good that I've missed something useful and relevant

This is a good one from AutoExpress - Best winter tyres 2018: tyre brands reviewed and UK prices compared

It's from 2018, but compares a number of winter tyres to an All Season and Summer tyre. Whilst it may sound obvious, the summer tyre performs very well in all categories where there isn't actually snow on the ground and the All Season is generally poor across the board

 

[WannabeOwner]

This is a good one from AutoExpress

Thanks, that one I had actually seen when making my choice. The test of particularly interest in was "cold wet braking". In their test the Summers outperformed all Winters ... but

"While you expect winter tyres to be better than summer versions on snow, they are also superior in the wet in low temperatures. The weather gods were not kind to us at our German proving ground because temperatures were above the seven degrees Centigrade cross-over point, giving the edge to the summer comparison tyre."

so in effect the test was useless IMHO. How do they know they are "superior in the wet in low temperatures" then?

 

[LukeT]

This is a good one from AutoExpress - Best winter tyres 2018: tyre brands reviewed and UK prices compared

It's from 2018, but compares a number of winter tyres to an All Season and Summer tyre. Whilst it may sound obvious, the summer tyre performs very well in all categories where there isn't actually snow on the ground and the All Season is generally poor across the board

I haven't read the whole article but this (wet test intro):

"The weather gods were not kind to us at our German proving ground because temperatures were above the seven degrees Centigrade cross-over point, giving the edge to the summer comparison tyre."

... does seem to explain why the summer tyre might've done well.

 

[zap fizzle]

I've had "acoustic" (foam-lined) and non, back-to-back, on my MS and thought there was very little difference. Certainly wouldn't pay any extra money or tolerate any hassle in order to have the foam.

On the tyre issue, the Nokian WRA4 performance in winter weather was absolutely outstanding. Thick smooth ice felt like ordinary wet tarmac and turning/stopping was spot-on. Absolutely amazing. There is definitely some difference in grip on warm smooth tarmac; with the Nokians on, the MS can be made to fishtail if seriously abused, whereas the Primacy3 will not fishtail.

Given the shortness of summer and relatively small number of really hot days, I'm seriously contemplating just leaving the Nokians on all year round. It's already down to almost freezing when I set off in the morning.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Certainly wouldn't pay any extra money or tolerate any hassle in order to have the foam.

Tangential issue, with foam, of how a minor puncture is repaired. I believe foam has to be removed, and then "stuck back" again ... I can see that not being done 100% effectively !!

 

[Daverh]

Accelerated way too fast before swerving and hitting the car. Should have stopped and checked for damage and left a note on the car they hit!

Also worth mentioning that winter tyres might still slip about. They will give you much more grip but don't defy the laws of physics so can slide about if not careful.

The acceleration looks faster than it is due to the angle of the video. The rear wheels had plenty of grip so pushed the car forwards while the fronts were on a patch of black ice so didn't let me steer.
Nope, I didn't bother checking for damage... until I'd parked safely, informed security about the ice then approached my colleague to let him know in person. I would think it rather impolite to leave a note for the guy I sat 3 desks away from. I offered him some cash on the spot to cover the inconvenience of getting a repair quote (which he declined). Funnily enough someone else hit his car on the same bumper but didn't report it so he got their reg from the CCTV, they deied it so he claimed on their insurance.

 

[LukeT]

Tangential issue, with foam, of how a minor puncture is repaired. I believe foam has to be removed, and then "stuck back" again ... I can see that not being done 100% effectively !!

The difference between two tyres in that earlier review was (I think) 66 to 72 dB. I wonder what the difference is for the same model with vs without foam. And therefore whether one could achieve both good noise results and an easy to repair tyre, just by choosing carefully.

 

[inikkor]

I can vouch for the Goodyear Eagle F1. They can be driven on with around 0c temps pretty safely unlike other Summer tires like the P Zeros.

 

[dspwhite]

I can vouch for the Goodyear Eagle F1

Asymmetric 3 or 5?

Any idea how they would compare in the wet cold versus the Michelin PS4S or PS4?

 

[pdk42]

I agree with the earlier poster about the uselessness of tyre tests and reviews. They're generally all over the place. OP - I doubt you'll get a reliable opinion on the question you ask. I think all you can safely say is that the MPS4S is probably the best general purpose summer tyre you can buy, but that a good winter tyre will work much better if there's any chance of snow or ice. At cold temperatures (anything below 5 deg) my personal belief is that winter tyres give better grip, but I refer you to my first point about tyre reviews!

Having winter tyres in snow is a massive confidence factor.