TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 shot after 4,000 miles???

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Raven, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. Raven

    Raven Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    US
    S85, 19" OEM wheels. Has anyone else seen this from an all-season tire on the 19" wheel? During annual service, Tesla declined to rotate and balance saying my rear tires were at life on the inner part of the tire. My factory Goodyears lasted 19,000 miles. While the climate I'm driving in has changed, my driving style has not. Tesla assured me that alignment is correct. Could it need a camber adjustment? I will not put these tires back on if they have 1/4 the life of the OEM Goodyear.
     
  2. greginfinity

    greginfinity Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Maine
    I don't have a Model S, but an A8L (big heavy gas guzzler) and lots of people have been complaining recently about those tires, specifically on short life. I bough Yokohama Advan Sport A/S and they seem to be doing great so far for me compared to the Michelins so maybe check them out if they offer your size? They are at a huge discount right now too at Tire Rack.
     
  3. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,766
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA
    I'm dumping my Michelins as soon as they die. The wear is completely absurd. Going to try Hankooks next.
     
  4. drsaab

    drsaab Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    209
    Location:
    VA
    #4 drsaab, Jan 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
    On my Mb e350 the as3 in 245/35/19 lasted about 25 k miles vs 45k rating . Costco gave me a mileage warranty.
     
  5. DCWitt

    DCWitt Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    Watseka, IL
    I put the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 on 19" Rial Lugano rims at the beginning of last winter. Put about 7,000 miles on last year and had about 6/32" of tread left when I put them back in service this winter. So, my wear has not been that bad, but I'm having a real problem with the noise these are making this year. The road noise is crazy. And I sure don't remember them being this loud last winter. Maybe I messed up the rotation?
     
  6. bwa

    bwa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    314
    Location:
    Aptos, Ca
    #6 bwa, Jan 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
    On my E500 which some numbskull who owned it before me put E55 wheels on, the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus 245/40ZR18 93Y (rear, staggered front) soft high grip tires which I bought new were nice but short lived. I went way past their life and only got 30% more than you, but with spirited driving. Honestly unspirited driving I should have expected about 5K to eol.

    I'm currently switching to harder rubber, i.e. longer lasting but more dangerous. I also got stock rims so I can get taller sidewall. You can't believe how much cheaper this is ... it's like 1/15th the price after my anti-E55 transition. Oh but I miss the extra 10-15mph I got around turns. I'm alright though.

    Savings: cheaper tire, cheaper rim, harder rubber lasts longer, taller sidewall less damage to rims and tires in rough roads. This is all multiplicative, thus enormous almost unbelievable savings.

    But then anyone who can afford a Tesla can afford super expensive tires, if they want that little bit better handling on what's essentially not really a sports car. It is both a choice and knowledge problem.
     
  7. joer00

    joer00 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    Tampa

    DONT BY THE HANKOOKS if you have a P. They are cheap and drive good but have terrible traction. I got wheel spin at 30 mph, i could never get any real 0 to 60 fun. After the Hankooks I tried the Pilot Super Sports and they are in my opionion the best choice. I got them for more or less the same price as the Contis, they are a little less sticky but much better lifetime than the contis.
     
  8. Sunfishsolar.ca

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Owen Sound, Ont Vin#9904
    I don't understand it either, but I have my favourite tires on last winter. Nokian R2's. I love Nok's and have always got 30-40-50 k on a set. Last winter the day I put them on i raced on them, don't ask. Maybe an 30-40 mins of max excel, max braking. They where still fine as far as tread wear after that. Then 6000 Kms later the backs where down to the alseason marks! Fronts where still at 80-90%. Got the stock Pireli's this winter. Drove nice and I'm at 10k there doing great. Does a tire need to be broken in to have a long life. Did Icook the rubber and did it crumble off.
     
  9. jordanthompson

    jordanthompson 2010 2.0 Sport, VIN 0683

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    512
    Location:
    Satellite Beach, FL
    Welcome to the world of heavy sports cars with ultimate torque. :-D
    My Roadster is just over half the weight of the model s and I go through rear tires every 5-6000 miles.
     
  10. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    I have about 17k miles on these Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's. In running the 255/45ZR19 all around. Wear is fine for me to date. These tires are awesome. Grip is amazing. Ride quality and feel are way better than the Goodyears and primacies. It's likely I'll never put a different type of tire on the car. That's how great these tires are. Best tire I've ever driven on ever in my life in dry and wet conditions and performance (no slip on P85). I cannot say enough good things about them. These tires should be the standard OEM 19" performance tire offered on the car for the P85.

    Your wear rate is completely due to misalignment. Take your car to a real alignment shop with staff that knows what they are doing because clearly your service center doesn't (or their alignment machine is out of whack or the specs are programmed incorrectly, which has been the case before at some service centers).
     
  11. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,763
    Location:
    Texas
    Best practice is to have every tire get 1500-3000 km on the drive axle early in it's life. The first rotation is important to prevent odd wear at the end of the tire's life because it sets up an even wearing pattern. Of course, the alignment must be correct or it's not going to matter much what other steps you take. Without an inspection of the tires, I can't answer any of your other questions with any degree of accuracy. I've certainly seen tires go to nothing in thirty minutes on the track (sooner if they were new tires), and if the tire temperature was high enough to partially devulcanize the tread compound, 8K later isn't an unreasonable number.

    Racing them on the first day, you're lucky they didn't spin on the wheels. The mounting lubricant would have still been wet.
     
  12. David99

    David99 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,055
    Location:
    Brea, Orange County
    +1 if the wear on the tire isn't even the alignment is off for sure. It's sad to hear the Tesla service center see the obvious uneven wear and still claim the alignment would be correct. Not very trustworthy.
     
  13. Raven

    Raven Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    US
    #13 Raven, Jan 31, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
    My Goodyears went to the cords on the very inner part of the rear tires. 19,000 miles. Tires rotated about 4 times so the fronts had to go also. The Michelins have the same wear, very inner part on the rear. 4,000 miles. So you're saying this is alignment? Everyone has told me it's the camber eating up the very inner part of the tire. Latest service at the Scottsdale Service Center. I'll take any recommendations on alignment shops.
     
  14. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,763
    Location:
    Texas
    The camber amplifies any of the other angles which are misaligned--it's not considered a wearing angle in and of itself. The real problem is toe out on the rears--that will wear tires out almost faster than you can blink. The two fixes are:

    1. Get an alignment so that there is no toe out in the rear. Ideally from a shop that uses manual measurements. Computerized alignment machines only work if they are calibrated properly (often neglected) and have personnel that understand alignment (a selling point for computerized systems is that you don't need knowledgeable personnel). Shops that use manual gear have to have personnel that understand alignment (otherwise they couldn't use the tools at all). A frame shop is often a good choice, so are race oriented shops that do custom work on race cars.

    2. Tesla used to provide some eccentric bolts to reduce the camber angle which reduces sensitivity, but I have heard they stopped doing that. There is adjustable linkage (third party) that can be installed to reduced excessive camber, which will make the car less sensitive to improper toe.

    Tesla did finally get the alignment correct on my car, but it took them several tries, including the first one where they didn't do anything other than tell me the alignment was perfect--even though you could easily tell from the tire wear that toe settings on three of the four wheels were way off. They did try hard after the first time, and it's not their fault for being general mechanics rather than alignment specialists.
     
  15. Raven

    Raven Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    US
    Apples to apples driving style on the very same car and the OEM Goodyears lasted nearly 5X longer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Great info. I'll start looking for a local alignment shop.
     
  16. Sunfishsolar.ca

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Owen Sound, Ont Vin#9904
    What are the correct alignment specs for a mostly low position driven p85 with 285's on the back? What specs can I tell an alignment shop.thanks
     
  17. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    It's not the negative camber. It's toe out on the rears that cause the inner tire wear.
     
  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,763
    Location:
    Texas
    They are in the manual on your car.
     
  19. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    2,766
    Location:
    Santa Cruz Mountains, USA

    Many thanks for the advice. Wheel spin at 30 is what I certainly do not want!
     
  20. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,793
    Location:
    Skaneateles, NY
    FWIW I just checked my Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3's and I have 7/32" on the fronts and 6/32" on the rears. I have 16k+ miles on these tires. Worth noting that the drop from 11/32" to 7/32" happened quickly in the first 4k miles that each pair was on the rear but now I've 8k more on one pair and it's only dropped from 7/32" to 6/32" in that time frame. So hopefully they are broken in well now and shaping up last me an additional 30k or so...shooting for 40k+ total on these tires.
     

Share This Page