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Michelin XI-3s - Range loss?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Beau24, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. Beau24

    Beau24 Member

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    Hi All:

    I've had the continental x-ice xi2's installed for a few months on my nearly 2 year old MS and they've performed excellent this winter. I have, however, noted a significant loss in range. Do winter tires create much more friction over all season tires? During warmer months, I averaged around 280-300 wh/mi and colder months would come in around 330-350 wh/mi with all seasons. With this setup, I'm averaging over 400 wh/mi pretty much every day.

    Would love some feedback on if this out of range or to be expected. Winter tires are great, but if I had to take a road trip, this would seriously cause me some range anxiety.
     
  2. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    1. Some winter tires have much less rolling resistance than others. As far as I am aware, the Nokian R2 tires are the rolling resistance champions followed by Michelin X-Ice xi3 (based on posts, as there is little actual data available to the public).

    2. Driving when the pavement is wet adds a lot of rolling resistance. Driving in snow adds a whole lot more.

    3. Cold air is denser requiring much more energy to push the car though. Just ask any pilot about how much easier takeoffs are in winter.

    4. Air shrinks when it's cold--ensure your tires are inflated to compensate for this loss.

    5. Preheating the cabin (while plugged in) and using the timer so that the charge ends at departure time reduces range loss significantly because getting the cabin and battery up to temperature takes a fair amount of energy. Keeping them there uses little energy.
     
  3. Beau24

    Beau24 Member

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    I realized after I posted that my tires are actually made by Michelin, and not Continental. I also have Xi3's and not Xi2's. If a moderator can change the title, I would appreciate it!
     
  4. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Done. Sorry for the time delay.
     
  5. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    I've only had 21" PS2s to compare. I'd say the usage is similar to my 19" XI3s, but it's hard to say for certain, due to temperature and other variables. Winter usage will always be significantly higher as jerry33 posted.
     
  6. AndreyATC

    AndreyATC Member

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    #6 AndreyATC, Feb 4, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
    I had a big drop to 290 when i switched to Michelins xi3
    And that's in very cold weather with occasional heat usage
    Summer tires only gave me 325

    These Michelins are extremely efficient
    I can barely notice any usage increase whether it's in cold, rain or anything else, besides snow
     
  7. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    #7 scottm, Feb 4, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2015
    I have xice3's mounted on different wheels than the stock 19" that came with the car.

    I guess I could do a controlled drive in the shoulder seasons back to back with a wheel swap and answer your question.

    Although it might interesting to know the answer... it wouldn't change a darn thing: the winters are staying on the car in winter and all seasons in all other seasons.

    Range "loss" due to having correct tires mounted is a loss only in the sense that it is different from some other reference point.
    It's not a "loss" in winter. It's the new lower range bar you experience because it's winter. Added to all the other factors that reduce range in winter.
    Making up your worst case, which is something that needs to be evaluated when getting into model S, not just best case range under ideal conditions, or EPA rating or whatever...

    I talked to an owner of S in my region before making the buy decision. It was a necessary step. First question was, "how is this car in winter, for real?"

    Maybe the question should be relative to other winter tire brands, how does the xice3 compare for rolling resistance to other winter tires?
    If range is top factor in winter, you might make a purchasing decision to not get the best ice traction in trade for more distance.

    I'd hazard a guess all the other winter factors of driving EV that reduce range (many cited in this thread) will dominate over rolling resistance differences between winter tire brands. So you'd probably choose a winter tire for its other merits, price, stopping, driving in snow, long wear, etc.

    I love my xice3 on my S! I have this brand on all my winter cars. I live in Edmonton, Alberta. Northern most major city in North America.
    We know that -40F equals -40C here! We'll see it on several occasions in a typical winter.

    If xice3 start to slip on an icy road.. it's really frickin' slippery out there and you need to slow down. That's what I know.
     
  8. donv

    donv Member

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    My energy usage on the XI-3s on 19in Rial wheels is slightly less than it was on my Tesla 21s with summer tires. Any real difference is far outweighed by temperature variation anyway.
     
  9. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

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    Now that you mention it, I have noticed wh/mile go from a historic average of 371 before the weather got cold, up to about 410-424 the last month (the time I've had the Xi3's). I chalked most of that up to the last month being colder than the first month of winter though, but it could attributed to the tires more than I thought. Also, it doesn't matter. The snow tires are so much better in the snow than the all-seasons, I'm willing to sacrifice a couple miles of range for the safety they offer. Fun-time will be back soon enough....
     
  10. Denarius

    Denarius Active Member

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    Wintertime is the FUN time! Unfortunately we haven't had much snow this year. :mad:
     
  11. Andyw2100

    Andyw2100 Well-Known Member

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    Any idea where the tires Tesla sells as part of the winter wheel package--the Pirelli Sottozero IIs--would fall on this ratings chart? I thought I had read somewhere that they actually had very low rolling resistance.
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Sorry, I don't know. Rolling resistance is considered a trade secret by the tire manufacturers. They've fought successfully to keep that information private, so there is little information available to the consumer and often what there is, is out of date. The only experience I've had with Pirelli on the Model S is with a set of summer tires--they had far more rolling resistance than the Goodyears or the Michelin Primacy tires. On the order of 50 Wh/mi more on my regular commute. I returned them after three days. (They might have become better after a break in period, but I doubt they would become 50 Wh/mi better.)

    However, this doesn't mean the Pirelli winter tires have poor values. Perhaps someone who has a set of the Pirelli winters can provide some input.
     

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