Mid Range charging speed.

[Cloxxki]

I'm curious for the first reports on how this thing will perform charging.
Long Range seems to top out the Super Charger at 120kW for a bit of a session, as do Model S and X in some versions and conditions.
Will the MR just charge slower or will it in fact hit a similar peak speed? This might hint that the 2170 cells are not quite at their maximum yet as supercharged at current SC tech level.
We are awaiting announcements regarding SC3's. Maybe around 250kW judging from Elon's vague hints? Will it take new cells or just larger packs to be stuck in S and X and eventually Roadster, or both larger packs and faster cells?

Has anyone seen good research on a salvaged Model 3 2170 and how it behaves? I'm dying to learn whether it's possibly a faster cell than the good old 18650's for the same cycle count (degradation).

Thanks!

 

[ewoodrick]

I suspect that it will accept the full load for a little bit, but not as long as the LR. The battery will charge faster, not because it can accept more current, but because it is smaller.

 

[derotam]

I suspect that it will accept the full load for a little bit, but not as long as the LR. The battery will charge faster, not because it can accept more current, but because it is smaller.

I don't think it is going to charge any faster, one of the charge limitations is based on SOC. As long as the MR keeps the same charging methodology, then it should take the same time to charge to a certain SOC. We will see once they get on the road.

 

[Cloxxki]

Thing is, since we never saw more than 120kW from even the 102.4kWh packs and the 75's still get the same peak more or less, it could be that during the ~120kW charge speed ceiling time frame the LR is actually limited by the supercharger's maximum amps output, not the health of the cells at that ~1.5C. If for instance it could safely hit 135kW, the MR might go as high as 110kW or so and really get good charging speed in kph for the money.

 

[vigge50]

Thing is, since we never saw more than 120kW from even the 102.4kWh packs and the 75's still get the same peak more or less, it could be that during the ~120kW charge speed ceiling time frame the LR is actually limited by the supercharger's maximum amps output, not the health of the cells at that ~1.5C. If for instance it could safely hit 135kW, the MR might go as high as 110kW or so and really get good charging speed in kph for the money.

We need to look at the voltage and amps separately I think. For what I have read 75 kWh battery packs in Model S and X barely comes over 100 kW and as I have understand it the reson for 75 kWh battery gets lower power then 100 kWh battery in Model S and X is that it have lower voltage on the pack. This means that if todays supercharger is 400V and 300A(don't know the exact numbers) and the MR battery is on 350V instead of 400 in the LR then it will only be able to get 105 kW. It can maybe get higher current but todays supercharger is for what I know not able to give more current then it gives to Model S and X.

 

[ivan801]

I've done a couple of supercharge sessions now on my MR Model 3. It does go up to as high as 80 kw, but that is just for a minute or two. Most of the time it will hover at around 60 kw when below 50% state of charge. Never seen it anywhere near 120 or even 100 kw.

 

[Cloxxki]

I've done a couple of supercharge sessions now on my MR Model 3. It does go up to as high as 80 kw, but that is just for a minute or two. Most of the time it will hover at around 60 kw when below 50% state of charge. Never seen it anywhere near 120 or even 100 kw.

Thank you. That seems like a significant reduction, even in relative C sense.
It being lower than I expected, that then forces the question of the Standard Range car. Lower than 50kW for most of the charge would be outright lame, although dissuading owners to Supercharge at all might be a thing. Public chargers can take the occupancy.
Or perhaps MR was just priced to be a SR plus extra range. SR may just charge to 80kW and ~60kW just like the MR, but see a reduced maximum leap or charging into the slow >80% range to make longer leaps, adding travel time, adding value to the MR.
In terms of charge speed, based on your experience, it seems LR is still kept attractive as possible. Much better long distance times, even if the MR will be well able to pull off decent leaps between driver swaps and comfort breaks.

 

[Rocky_H]

Thank you. That seems like a significant reduction, even in relative C sense.
It being lower than I expected, that then forces the question of the Standard Range car. Lower than 50kW for most of the charge would be outright lame, although dissuading owners to Supercharge at all might be a thing. Public chargers can take the occupancy.

I don't think that's the case because you're probably getting questionable information from the post before you. I'm really sure they don't have Supercharging gimped for the medium range.

I've done a couple of supercharge sessions now on my MR Model 3. It does go up to as high as 80 kw, but that is just for a minute or two. Most of the time it will hover at around 60 kw when below 50% state of charge. Never seen it anywhere near 120 or even 100 kw.

I noticed you're a bit new, and you said you've only done "a couple" of Supercharges. Have you tried this at many states of charge? You can only get the 100 or 120kW power levels if you're down at really low states of charge, like around single digits or 10-15%. Also, was this when you first plugged in while your car was a bit cold?

 

[Cloxxki]

This is now a race to post the first single digit SOC to full time lapse SC video.

 

[Chuq]

This is now a race to post the first single digit SOC to full time lapse SC video.

Teslabjorn does videos like this - he's done many for other EVs, I can't remember if he did a M3 one when he visited the US earlier this year. MR M3 might be difficult for some time for the same reason (relative rarity of vehicle + lack of EU availability)

 

[ivan801]

I don't think that's the case because you're probably getting questionable information from the post before you. I'm really sure they don't have Supercharging gimped for the medium range.


I noticed you're a bit new, and you said you've only done "a couple" of Supercharges. Have you tried this at many states of charge? You can only get the 100 or 120kW power levels if you're down at really low states of charge, like around single digits or 10-15%. Also, was this when you first plugged in while your car was a bit cold?

OK, I will be more specific. I've done two supercharges. Lowest SOC at the start was around 20%. Battery was at least 50 F, I have heated garage at work and at home. I will try to supercharge with a really low SOC next week. One thing I can say is that at 50% SOC I was getting just under 60 kw.

I am a new Tesla owner, but on my 2018 LEAF I normally get max charge rate at around 40%, so I figured it would work the same for Tesla. But both times charge rate dropped from the time I would plug in. Still faster charing than LEAF, but not by that much.

 

[vigge50]

OK, I will be more specific. I've done two supercharges. Lowest SOC at the start was around 20%. Battery was at least 50 F, I have heated garage at work and at home. I will try to supercharge with a really low SOC next week. One thing I can say is that at 50% SOC I was getting just under 60 kw.

I am a new Tesla owner, but on my 2018 LEAF I normally get max charge rate at around 40%, so I figured it would work the same for Tesla. But both times charge rate dropped from the time I would plug in. Still faster charing than LEAF, but not by that much.

Here you can see some data from charging Model S and X and see how the charging change for different battery packs.

Tesla Battery Charging Data from 801 Cars – About A Better Routeplanner

He have also got some data from Model 3 LR but he would probably really liked to get some data from MR charging if you would okay to share.

Model 3 Consumption and Charging – About A Better Routeplanner

 

[Cloxxki]

Teslabjorn does videos like this - he's done many for other EVs, I can't remember if he did a M3 one when he visited the US earlier this year. MR M3 might be difficult for some time for the same reason (relative rarity of vehicle + lack of EU availability)

I've et him and see most of his videos at least once. Best BEV and Tesla content creator.
Model 3 he didn't get a lot of time with. Others have documented LR charging though, as links shared in this threat.

 

[Big Earl]

OK, I will be more specific. I've done two supercharges. Lowest SOC at the start was around 20%. Battery was at least 50 F, I have heated garage at work and at home. I will try to supercharge with a really low SOC next week. One thing I can say is that at 50% SOC I was getting just under 60 kw.

I am a new Tesla owner, but on my 2018 LEAF I normally get max charge rate at around 40%, so I figured it would work the same for Tesla. But both times charge rate dropped from the time I would plug in. Still faster charing than LEAF, but not by that much.

Your charging speed is being limited by the cold temperature. Try Supercharging on a road trip. It can take an hour or more of driving for the battery to be warm enough to accept a full speed charge.

 

[ek8990]

I can add one more data point, for what it’s worth. Last night I superchargered MR Model 3 at ~75% SOC at an urban supercharger (so, 72kW max?), and it only pulled 30kW, then went down to 25kW. Really disappointing. Something strange was happening. I’ll update this post when I can supercharge at a lower SOC or in a different location.

 

[Rocky_H]

and it only pulled 30kW, then went down to 25kW. Really disappointing. Something strange was happening.

No, something normal was happening because:

I superchargered MR Model 3 at ~75% SOC

You're three fourths full. It's going to be slow when it's mostly full. That's how proper charging of lithium ion batteries is done.

 

[Big Earl]

I can add one more data point, for what it’s worth. Last night I superchargered MR Model 3 at ~75% SOC at an urban supercharger (so, 72kW max?), and it only pulled 30kW, then went down to 25kW. Really disappointing. Something strange was happening. I’ll update this post when I can supercharge at a lower SOC or in a different location.

This image shows the charging curve for the long range battery pack. At 75%, its max charge rate is about 55 kW. If the temperature was under 50F and you hadn't been driving for more than 30 minutes, your rate will be limited by temperature.

Try again with 20% state of charge after driving for 30 minutes and you should be able to get full speed. (Depending on conditions, it may take up to an hour of highway driving to get the max 120 kW rate).

Image credit: Model 3 Consumption and Charging

 

[derotam]

Great graph Big Earl, I hadn't seen that yet but I got enough data to match that graph when I went on a long distance trip a few weeks ago.

 

[ggnykk]

OK, I will be more specific. I've done two supercharges. Lowest SOC at the start was around 20%. Battery was at least 50 F, I have heated garage at work and at home. I will try to supercharge with a really low SOC next week. One thing I can say is that at 50% SOC I was getting just under 60 kw.

I am a new Tesla owner, but on my 2018 LEAF I normally get max charge rate at around 40%, so I figured it would work the same for Tesla. But both times charge rate dropped from the time I would plug in. Still faster charing than LEAF, but not by that much.

From hours and hours of watching Teslabjorn videos before, Nissan Leaf using Chademo DC charging actually has low kw charging speed at low state of charge, and it slowing increase the kw speed as SOC increases and peak around 80 or 90% of battery, and then the kw speed drop very quickly again beyond 90%.
This charging behavior in Nissan is very different from Tesla.

 

[intenost]

Hey folks curious if there are any more real world reports on MR supercharging. I have an order in for MR expecting Dec delivery and have noticed that while they talk about the at home charging (AC in) limited to 32 amps vs LR (which I’m fine with) there is no info on supercharging speed. Also would be interested to know if any constraints specific to MR will apply to future supercharging plans (v3) although realize that will most likely be speculative at this point.

Thanks!