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Might order my 3 soon, very begrudgingly.

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Nice post, very civil. :)
I think there is a 3rd approach. Like an online petition or a class action suit. I do think that simply returning the deposit to a consumer is not a full rememdy and does not hold Tesla to account for their “bait and switch”. Why not just do the financial math properly and let people know that they will get a chance at more expensive car first and the actual $35k car will be later because of economics.

Over promising that approaches fraud is not acceptable.

I really think Elon(at this point) is way more obsessed with stock value than saving the planet.

Yeah for me, if I was that upset with Tesla I would just cancel my reservation and buy something else. Wouldn’t go the route of a class action.
 
If Tesla had made the $35K base model available right away, like they should have done, I wonder what percentage of the currently placed orders to date would have gone for the base model, and what percentage for the more expensive version. Yes, it would take Tesla a little longer to make their money back that way, but the money is sitting there waiting. They'll get it sooner or later, and not annoy a lot of customers in the process.
 
OMG I would hope that people who start class action lawsuits like suggested and who lose have to pay out of their pockets for all legal fees. I would consider this a nuisance lawsuit. This is not a case of bait and switch. This is not vaporware. No one has stolen your money or won't give it back. I am sure a $35,000 car will be offered at the base price. People will have to wait due to production issues on a first of its kind newly built automobile. Geez maybe Tesla and other manufacturers don't have a crystal ball and can't say for certain how production issues will shake out. The sense of entitlement from some people is astounding.

Sense of entitlement? Unbelievable! It’s not entitled to hold companies accountable. It is the companies sense of entitlement that leads companies to abuse consumers for profit.

I’m not sure how you could be more wrong.
 
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If Tesla had made the $35K base model available right away, like they should have done, I wonder what percentage of the currently placed orders to date would have gone for the base model, and what percentage for the more expensive version. Yes, it would take Tesla a little longer to make their money back that way, but the money is sitting there waiting. They'll get it sooner or later, and not annoy a lot of customers in the process.
As a reminder for some folks, as I posted at Might order my 3 soon, very begrudgingly., in reservations FAQ from July 31, 2017 claimed
Additional configurations, including the Model 3 with standard equipment for $35,000, will become available as production ramps, which we expect to be in November 2017.
I haven't re-watched the entire unveil from March 2016, but from
(16:54), Elon claims deliveries begin next year, which would be 2017 and at around 17:14, he said the price would be $35,000.
 
You gonna sue Elon for damages, emotional pain & suffering and loss of a companion for not having your $35,000 Model 3 in your hands already?

As I posted here, Tesla is not going to inflict self harm to assuage your sense of entitlement.

Economic Study: If Model 3 was NOT for resale, did you purchase EAP?
Nope. I don't even have a deposit in for a Model 3. I have no plans to until the 3 has been in the hands of real customers for at least 6 months to a year to see how the reliability is. That means I'd be waiting a LONG time or perhaps will never get a 3. That's ok by me. So, far the signs aren't looking good and I'm not happy with the controls (e.g. wiper controls, cruise control and so much being on that center touchscreen) so never is actually more likely.

Entitlement? Crazy talk! Very few mass market vehicles (perhaps 0 or near 0?) are announced and introduced in this way w/missed dates and expensive versions still only being the choices available for pickup or order more than 7 months after the 1st "production" cars.

They didn't even make good on test drives from Model 3 Reservations FAQ.
When can I test drive Model 3?
We will provide the opportunity to get behind the wheel of Model 3 once we begin production at the end of 2017. In the meantime, we invite you to stop by a Tesla store to experience Model S or Model X.
Doesn't sound like entitlement to me if folks expect a $35K car by this point when Elon says deliveries starting 2017 and $35K. And, later, the FAQ claims the $35K car will be available Nov 2017.
 
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If Tesla had made the $35K base model available right away, like they should have done, I wonder what percentage of the currently placed orders to date would have gone for the base model, and what percentage for the more expensive version. Yes, it would take Tesla a little longer to make their money back that way, but the money is sitting there waiting. They'll get it sooner or later, and not annoy a lot of customers in the process.

Roughly 90 percent of previous Tesla owners deferred on the first production build. They either want a 35k toy Model 3 or AWD or a P Model 3.

I have two outstanding reservations. If the 35K option was available, you would be looking at 80 percent adoption rate. You wouldn’t even be close to a Model 3 right now because the first 160,000 or more would be going to owners.
Existing owners could live without EAP on a toy purchase so Tesla would be out 20K per car across 160000 cars. That is a lot of money left on table and it would kill them.

A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.
 
Nope. I don't even have a deposit in for a Model 3. I have no plans to until the 3 has been in the hands of real customers for at least 6 months to a year to see how the reliability is. That means I'd be waiting a LONG time or perhaps will never get a 3. That's ok by me. So, far the signs aren't looking good and I'm not happy with the controls (e.g. wiper controls, cruise control and so much being on that center touchscreen) so never is actually more likely.

Entitlement? Crazy talk! Very few mass market vehicles (perhaps 0 or near 0?) are announced and introduced in this way w/missed dates and expensive versions still only being the choices available for pickup or order more than 7 months after the 1st "production" cars.

They didn't even make good on test drives from Model 3 Reservations FAQ.

Doesn't sound like entitlement to me if folks expect a $35K car by this point when Elon says deliveries starting 2017 and $35K. And, later, the FAQ claims the $35K car will be available Nov 2017.

Civics are mass market. Corollas are mass market. Who cares about those? Who cares about how many LX or EX Civics are made and when they come out.

You take it too litterally and don’t know what mass market means in the context of Tesla. Model 3 is going after the entry level luxury sedan market of 3 series, a series and c class. This is not a persons first car in high school.

Model 3 is not mass market, not this year. But mass market Tesla just sounds better than “more greatly accessible Tesla!”

The fact that you don’t even have a deposit in shows your poor planning. What if it was excellent after six months. You are out of position to get a car.

If you feel this entitled without even a chip at the table - an actual reservation would make you think you could walk around Fremont like you own it?

Cry all you want but Tesla is not going to self harm themselves to make you happy.

10,000 Model 3s were sold without a test drive.

I have no problem not test driving my Model 3 when my config arrives. I don’t even want to spoil the experience driving someone else’s.

Must hurt that Tesla draws that much esteem sight unseen and test drives are a waste from both the customer and Tesla.

You are outside looking in anyway but feigning great harm and damages because they are late. Not like that is a surprise and they have tried to communicate this through multiple channels.
 
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You take it too litterally and don’t know what mass market means in the context of Tesla. Model 3 is going after the entry level luxury sedan market of 3 series, a series and c class. This is not a persons first car in high school.

Model 3 is not mass market, not this year. But mass market Tesla just sounds better than “more greatly accessible Tesla!”
Right. Tesla has used the words "mass market" NUMEROUS times to describe the Model 3, such as at the below:
Elon Musk | Tesla
Press Kit | Tesla
The Mission of Tesla
Compare Model S and Model 3 | Tesla

In another forum (you'll need a free account to see it), a BMW driver there mentions that BMW sells about 1/2 million 3-series (when it was still made) per year worldwide: https://www.tivocommunity.com/commu...a-model-3-thread.522634/page-18#post-10839627. That sounded about right when I confirmed it back then.

BMW Group produces 10 million BMW 3 Series Sedans mentions 14 million made of the 3-series back in 2015.
The fact that you don’t even have a deposit in shows your poor planning. What if it was excellent after six months. You are out of position to get a car.
That's fine by me. I've seen Tesla's past history in terms of reliability. It would've surprised me if it were good. Six months would've been way too early anyway. Not interested in giving Tesla a $1K interest free loan not held in escrow at this point now nor any time before.

I already knew I could be waiting a LONG time and was fine with that. I still am.
If you feel this entitled without even a chip at the table - an actual reservation would make you think you could walk around Fremont like you own it?
You keep using that word but I'm not sure you know what it means. You sure like attacking people, don't you?

There's something to be said when it comes to making claims in the auto industry and then being so far off over and over. Companies and executives can get into trouble for fraud or find themselves the target of the SEC and/or lawyers. If Tesla stock tanks big time and stays down, I expect the lawyers to start showing up.

It's "entitlement" to expect a company to live up to their claims and self-imposed timelines?
 
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Roughly 90 percent of previous Tesla owners deferred on the first production build. They either want a 35k toy Model 3 or AWD or a P Model 3.
What is your source for this claim? About 90% of Tesla owners I know in Austin who reserved a Model 3 have NOT deferred theirs— they have just received theirs or it’s coming later this month.
 
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Sense of entitlement? Unbelievable! It’s not entitled to hold companies accountable. It is the companies sense of entitlement that leads companies to abuse consumers for profit.

I’m not sure how you could be more wrong.

Cars are being produced but slower than expected so expectations get lowered, the majority of people here understand that. Tesla never signed a contract with anyone promising to deliver a car to them by any certain date. To me expecting something else is wrong and shows a sense of entitlement, especially when people feel they should come first or dictate to a company how and when to sell their product.

Holding companies accountable for what? production delays, telling them how they should produce their cars and in what order and how invites are sent out? As far as I know everyone who put down a deposit will get an invite to configure a car, one may not be happy with their place in line or order in which the different trims are made available to them.

Abusing customers for profit is not what is going on here. A fitting case would be the Phama bro guy. Tesla is selling its cars to everyone at the same pricing announced once it becomes available. No haggling on price. I get some people can't wait until their desired version gets produced and is available to order. I get people were hoping to avail themselves of the full $7500 federal tax credit if they could. Happen to be in that group as well but since waiting for AWD thinking that might not happen. But at the same time I don't feel the need to throw unreasonable shade at or whine about a company working so hard especially to produce a very desired new technology car. Did you not already get your deposit refund?
 
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I put down my $1000 on Day 1 of reservations, and I've been waiting 2 years, so YES I am entitled! At least in some way of a current non-owner. Current Tesla owners would be a higher entitlement level.

And future Tesla owners are ahead of you. Apparently if somebody orders a Tesla today, they are immediately put in the front of the Model 3 line, this is according to someone who posted they just ordered a Model S then a Model 3.

It made little sense to make a reservation if you were a non-owner. You can find ready-to-configure or waiting-for-VIN Model 3's reservations for $0 if you are patient. There is one in the For Sale Forum right now.

For non-owners, I would estimate under 0.5% of the queue has received their cars legitimately at this point if there is indeed 500,000 reservations. If Tesla makes their goal of 10,000 cars in April, I would guess no more than 5,000 will go to non-owners (legitimate). Some will export, some employees will buy, some existing owners will buy to transfer, some old owners will buy more, some new owners will buy their first, but most importantly, I believe the AWD variant will start to be produced in late April-early June which will all go to existing and new MS/X owners and employees.

But... I don't think 10,000 a month will occur before Q3. Just my opinion based on history. So 1% of the non-owner queue per month is probably not happening until Q3 or later.
 
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Send me a PM if you want a 3. I have a day one reservation and will sell to highest bidder

You should ask for a refund and let the next person in line have that car. That would be the honest (straight) thing to do.

Apart from that it's rather risky buying this way as Tesla won't just switch names on the reservation as I understand. They don't want reservations sold/bartered whatever in this fashion and have stated pretty much that. In order to do so believe you have to give your personal information to a total stranger to process through their Tesla account. I've read accounts of people doing this and no way would I hand over my banking info in this fashion. I can see doing this between a trusted relative or friend but a total stranger, sorry Stranger Danger! ;)
 
What is your source for this claim? About 90% of Tesla owners I know in Austin who reserved a Model 3 have NOT deferred theirs— they have just received theirs or it’s coming later this month.

There is no official source but I'm a game theory economist with a healthy dose of common sense. Doesn't take a lot of data points to put two and two together.

I am aware of my approximate standing, when I got the invite, and when non owner reservations opened up. At best, the 10,000th Model 3 is in the process to delivery with the production ramp being this slow.

Non owner configurations would not have opened up this early if myself and the majority of other reservationst took 1st run.
 
Not quite sure what you mean there, but I am a non-owner, non-employee, I got my reservation in the first 10 minutes on 3/31/16, and I had my config email 3 weeks ago. And I'm east coast, too.

There are 150,000+ Tesla owners in front of non owners. In theory, those 150,000 owners would have first crack at the Model 3 before anyone else.

If there was a 27.5K Tesla option 150,000 of those would be sold first.

You are getting Model 3 # 12,500 as an example due to existing owners passing. They want AWD, they want P, they want AWD+SR, etc.

You would get Tesla Model 3 # 140,000 if the 27.5K option was available day 1.

$27,500 is nothing for Tesla's latest brand new model (in relative terms) for people who spent 75K -already- on an existing Tesla.

Practically every Tesla owner would have pounced on a $27,500 Model 3. Simply for the fact that you how the hell is this thing going to depreciate for how little you paid for it. It's a TESLA! (Not a Volvo, or some Dodge Charger)

You are in an enviable position to those who won't get access to a 49K-7.5K Tesla.
Again it's a Tesla. Clowns adding in Volvos is a completely different league of a car.
 
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Tesla is selling its cars to everyone at the same pricing announced once it becomes available. No haggling on price. I get some people can't wait until their desired version gets produced and is available to order.

The no haggling comment deserves a like. Recent news articles show shady dealers with insane mark ups on highly anticipated Honda Civic's (lol), Dodge Challengers, and others. Whether you want the extra Model 3 first production options or not, at least you don't have to worry about the car being priced according to the whim (greed) of your local dealership.

https://jalopnik.com/greedy-greedy-dealers-are-still-putting-insane-mark-up-1818553110

https://jalopnik.com/a-dealership-in-colorado-is-asking-176-000-for-a-dodge-1821290075

I am non-owner, not first day reservation holder. I was estimated a March 2017 delivery for my Model 3 reservation and was getting seriously excited about a potential June delivery (expecting delays). When news broke about the $35k Model 3 being delayed until end of 2017, I started saving everything I could to make a down payment that would make an affordable monthly payment for the "fully loaded" Model 3 to get the car this summer. Once I had a reasonable assurance that I would have the cash, I stated looking at Model S CPO's and was surprised to find cars with AutoPilot 1.0 going for about the same price as a first production Model 3. Sure, there is no tax incentive for a CPO, but that was never guaranteed for my place in line anyways.

I am currently awaiting delivery of my 2015 Model S 85 kWh with AP 1.0. As this will be the "family car", I am happy that I am able to get everything I was looking for in the Model 3, on a car with much more interior space.
 
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