Might switch to Taycan

[acarney]

I think it’s been said already a couple times, but I really look at the shift for why Tesla is still the “best” is the superchargers. They’re almost everywhere (at least everywhere enough for long distance interstate travel) and they’re pretty “standard” experience. You know most are ~150kW (but might be slower is busy) and some new ones are 250kW. More dense urban cores or parking garages are 72kW but dedicated. That’s it. It’s fairly easy to plan and you basically know what the location is before getting there.

The other fast charger networks are a mishmash. You might find some 150kW or even 350kW EA chargers... but you might also run across a lot of 50kW max. You might have a broken charger that’s broken for weeks or even longer if it’s not in a heavy traffic area. You might need three different networks to activate and pay for them and the real time status might not be updating.

Superchargers might experience problems every now and then, but in my experience FAR less than these other 3rd parties. Maybe in a busy city the other guys are just as reliable, but what about in the middle of Nebraska at a Walmart? Tesla seems to stay on top of even their remote superchargers (for the most part). Is long distance or leisure travel (to maybe more remote or less EV populous areas) something you might do? What about not being able to use Tesla destination chargers?

Otherwise I think the car probably is “good enough” and would be fun!

 

[Mysta]

We are considering the Taycan as a replacement for our 2016 Volt. It would be my wife's car and she doesn't want another Tesla after our horrible delivery experience with our Model 3 Performance. I'm letting her decide since it's going to be her car. After driving a 2012 Nissan Leaf, she is okay with the EPA estimated range of the Taycan.

Former owner of a 1985.5 Porsche 944, which I've been told when I got it, that it wasn't a real Porsche...

I must say I'm surprised how much stock people put in delivery. To me it's such an insignificant part of the car and can cost you a significant cost when using traditional dealers.

I've driven a Model S performance and frankly while it's a super fast car, it's not the drivers car that the 3 is...that's why I bought the 3. I think the Taycan is also a drivers car.

Which S did you drive, Raven or earlier

 

[SomeJoe7777]

In their defense, i think Porsche knows what they're doing with these cars, they've been working with electric motors for quite a while.

• 1000 lbs heavier than it should be
• Twice the price of a Model S performance
• 400 Wh/mi when driven conservatively
• Range will be <150 miles in real-world conditions once HVAC and weather are taken into account

So, they've been working with electric motors for quite a while, and this is the best they can build?

I would love for Porsche to be successful and get more EVs on the road, but right now, when you put the numbers side-by-side it's difficult to get excited.

 

[TMThree]

I think it will be a very good car except for the range.

Depends on what you're using the car for. If you're treating it like a sporty vehicle for weekend rides, then it's perfectly fine.

But if you want to treat it like a 4 seater sedan, it's not good for adult rear passengers or for cargo room.

 

[neptunesfinest]

• 1000 lbs heavier than it should be
• Twice the price of a Model S performance
• 400 Wh/mi when driven conservatively
• Range will be <150 miles in real-world conditions once HVAC and weather are taken into account

So, they've been working with electric motors for quite a while, and this is the best they can build?

I would love for Porsche to be successful and get more EVs on the road, but right now, when you put the numbers side-by-side it's difficult to get excited.

They’re not really going for efficiency though. The car is uncompromisingly performance focused which is not the case with any Tesla.

 

[TMThree]

They’re not really going for efficiency though. The car is basically uncompromisingly performance focused which is not the case with any Tesla.

eh. Wait till you see the tri-motor Model S. Should be cheaper than Taycan and much faster. Oh, longer range and more cargo capacity.

Or better yet, get the new Roadster for the same price as a nicely optioned Taycan Turbo S. I just priced one out at $200,000 with just a few options like ACC.

Before you say try-S/Roadster aren't released yet, tell me how long the wait is for your Taycan if you ordered today and then how long you think it will be till tri-motor will be released.

PS: Found this recent thread on a non-car forum where they discuss Taycan. They're pretty sharp on the topic considering it's not the focus of the forum. Porsche Taycan - who's on the wait list for one? Tesla killer... - AR15.COM

 

[kbecks13]

Range will be <150 miles in real-world conditions once HVAC and weather are taken into account

Actually that's not necessarily true, see this: https://ww.electrek.co/2019/12/21/f...r-says-cars-epa-range-is-highly-conservative/

It also has no reduction in regen due to SOC, much better cooling capability, protected battery which means practically "zero" degradation (that you notice) and is overall an incredible track car with it's suspension and brakes.

They're very different products and the Taycan shouldn't be compared against either a Model S or Model 3 IMO. Also the Taycan 4S starts at $100K, so saying it's twice as much isn't quite accurate.

 

[PARNY]

A friend purchased the 4S and he and I drove the Taycan Turbo earlier this week. Coming from my Model S 75D, and having tested the Model 3 Performance, the Porsche handles like a true sports car. Handling is great, no body roll, high corning limits and stiff suspension. Drives like a 911 with more weight over the front. Very different car than a Model 3 or Model S. The Turbo was very fast and acceleration felt like a P100D without using the launch control. The interior quality is great. Seats are very bolstered and the same as the ones used in the 911. The rear is fine for 2 adults. Porsche is having software issues with the cars. The passenger display, an option, does not work properly and will likely be deleted as an option or blacked out for now according to sales.

The 4S is very expensive. My friend loaded his up and the cost was well over 150K. Many things you get on a Tesla are options and are mandatory on the early production cars, like a glass roof and the larger battery. I don't think you can get the car for much under $125K with larger battery and other options included in a Tesla. There is no autopilot and minimal charging options. Would be a great 2nd car for use around town.

 

[TMThree]

is overall an incredible track car with it's suspension and brakes.

Is it though? I've never heard anyone bragging about tracking a car that weighs as much as a SUV. In fact, on other forums someone chewed me out for even suggesting Taycan was a sports car. And he was pro-Taycan.

Porsche is buying time with the Taycan before they make a sports EV. It's basically their EV equivalent of the Panamera.

 

[kbecks13]

Wait till you see the tri-motor Model S. Should be cheaper than Taycan and much faster.

It will likely be quicker but i doubt faster. Porsche has way better suspension and chassis dynamics than anything Tesla has done so far plus just look at the brakes on the Taycan, they aren't messing around. Meanwhile the "performance" Model 3 needs upgrades almost immediately for real track use (i know, i know its WAY cheaper - but still) and the S doesn't have anything comparable.

Is it though? I've never heard anyone bragging about tracking a car that weighs as much as a SUV. In fact, on other forums someone chewed me out for even suggesting Taycan was a sports car. And he was pro-Taycan.

Porsche is buying time with the Taycan before they make a sports EV.

Yes their coilover tech is incredible, they've got rear axle steering, two gears for proper power across all speed ranges etc. It's a true sports EV for sure. Yes it's heavy, but i could definitely see them shaving off a few hundred pounds over the next couple model years. They definitely put a lot of engineering into this, it is certainly not slapped together as a hold over.

Info: The chassis: Committed to driving dynamics

 

[TMThree]

It will likely be quicker but i doubt faster. Porsche has way better suspension and chassis dynamics than anything Tesla has done so far plus just look at the brakes on the Taycan, they aren't messing around.

hahahaha. Model S was designed as a GT long before it's announcement in 2008. They didn't even put model S on the ring till just a few months ago. It's all fun and games trying to race someone when they didn't know they were in a race, but let's see what Tesla pulls out with the tri-motor before giving Taycan the crown. I suspect Taycan owners will end up with larger car payments for a slower and less capable vehicle in just about every metric used to measure the usefulness of a vehicle. They're almost there already against the 2012 S.

But hey, you can always brag about your awesome leather seats!

PS: I owned two 993's and a 944 back in the day. So I'm not a Porsche hater even though my Porsches were from a time when reliability was garbage compared to today's models.

 

[brkaus]

Go for it! There is no one car that is perfect for everyone!

 

[lotusland]

Historically I love Porsche, we have had everything from a mars orange 944 to a turbo cab in the family, but there is no way I would reward the VW group with any of my money after their recent behavior. If customers don't punish / reward companies with their wallets then bad behavior like that will become the norm. I'm not generally a nationalist buyer, but in this case a US company is the absolute leader in the field and has a great game plan for weaning the world off of oil. I am more than happy to be supporter. Also I love my P3D.

 

[axhoaxho]

I have been a P-car owner since the 1980's, my last one was a 997.2 GT3.

Recently got a 2019 MS LR (with FSD.) It came with Premium Interior, free lifetime Supercharging, 373 miles range, and the latest adaptive suspension.

I enjoyed it so much, I never looked back.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Believe a strong point for the Taycan is the Sports car feel and Porsche legacy.

It will probably feel and handle better than a Model 3 and be more nimble than a Model S. The S was not designed as a sports car, but more of a Grand Touring luxury hatchback with great versatility and seating for 7 (now 5).

Taycan has their own niche. Sporty, Porsche and expensive. There is a market for that type of vehicle. It will not directly compete with the Tesla experience, but will appeal to some looking for the Porsche experience.

To Tesla people it will be too expensive, too inefficient, offer limited utility, no towing and little high speed charging while touring.

To Porsche people it will be exclusive, Porsche image and quality, fast, good handling and great fit and finish.

Tesla will outsell them 10 to 1, but Taycan will find it's market.

 

[drtimhill]

Now that the Taycan is out I'm seriously thinking about getting the 4S. I realize that it carries a 50 - 55K premium over my Model 3, but the thought of having another electric option that is a real drivers car but also includes typical Porsche quality and driving characteristics might be worth it to me. Anyone else have this thought, or am I alone on this one?

Aren't you assuming Porsche won't have quality issues also? I'm not talking basic stuff like panels (I agree that they are good at that), but basic stuff like batteries and motors. This is tricky stuff to get right. Regardless of Tesla pros/cons, if it were me, I would wait and watch while Porsche fix any early adopter issues.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

I’m so sick of seeing Model 3s everywhere.

No kidding. I'm wearing my arms out waving at them.

 

[Mo City]

I would not buy a first generation EV from any automaker. It will be like the 2008 Roadster all over again. Let someone else work out the bugs.

Listen to this man.

Wait at least 8-12 months after first release before pulling the trigger so you have more than enough time to get feedback from earlier buyers. Patience is a virtue.

Wish you the best!

 

[gowthamn]

More than a thousand pounds heavier than a model 3...might not be as fun to drive.

Its not about weight. But how the steering and suspension is calibrated.

 

[Magnets!]

Its not about weight. But how the steering and suspension is calibrated.

Amusing that a guy on the GT3 RS wait list says weight doesn't matter.