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M'iles P'er G'uess

Discussion in 'Roadster: Performance' started by Yanquetino, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. Yanquetino

    Yanquetino Member

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    The guess'timates for the Roadster's range have certainly seen their ups and downs. At first, it was projected at 250 miles. Then, because of additional safety weight, it was dropped to a more disappointing "over 200 miles." The first EPA test reignited the optimism with results of 245. But now Drori reports that the independent lab screwed up and that a second test drops the range back down again to 221.

    He states, however, that "we feel the real world numbers are a better reflection of what you might see in day-to-day use." Okay. So let's look at those "real world numbers," as reported by Andrew Simpson in the "Touch" blog.

    They are: 267 (best-case scenario), 230, 227, 222, 213, 209, 203, 186, and 165 (worst-case scenario). When I calculate those figures, I come up with an average range of... 216 miles, i.e., 5 miles lower than the second EPA test. That's pretty much in the same ballpark for all intents and purposes, not "better" --or worse either. It looks like the anecdotal reports actually substantiate the latest laboratory results, so that's probably what one should count on for "day-to-day use."
     
  2. BlackbirdHighway

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    For me, it doesn't really matter, since any of those numbers meet my needs. My worst case is a drive to the beach, 150 miles away.

    I'd like to very occasionally drive to New York City, which is more like 225. Since that's right on the edge of the maximum range, I would plan on recharging along the way somewhere, maybe at the Hyatt in Princeton, NJ. A 300 miles range would be nice for those trips, but I would make that trip so rarely that it wouldn't be worth the extra cost.

    My typical day is 40 to 50 miles, so even if I forget to recharge one night, I'd still have enough left to carry me through the next day.

    A lot of the other electric cars are going for more like 60 (R1E) to 120 (Miles Javlon) miles range, which doesn't work at all for me. I think Tesla has it just about right. I hope Whitestar also aims for around 200-250.

    I'm guessing that those figures in the Andrew Simpson blog are with the top down (or really, top off). I would expect better ones with the top on, and even better ones with the hard top. Of course, you can also try "premium electrons"; they cost a little more, but should give you a little extra range. :biggrin:
     
  3. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    My benchmark is being able to drive to Waco (60 miles) and back without recharging and with a comfortable margin for driving around town, side excursions, etc., and still be able to do it after a few years when the battery has degraded somewhat.

    I did the math and figured that a range of 200 miles, when new, would meet my requirements. Since they are hitting 220 now, and it seems pretty firm this time, I'm happy.
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    They always have the car "top off". It allows people to see the inside without having to bend down a whole lot. Crunching bones to look in a dark space does not sell cars.

    The other not as obvious reason is with the “top on” it's MUCH harder to get into. So by having the car appear topless at rides, any potential customers won't go through the embarrassment and contortions of dealing with squeezing in a potential 100K ride. Even at non ride/drive events the Roadster caretakers would always have to look VERY smooth getting in and out as well.

    I have a friend with an Exige. It is a really really really hard to get into the driver’s seat without banging into things and folding body parts in weird ways. But, with built in roll bars and the Lotus doorsill, it's not a fair comparison to the Roadster.

    I got into the “top off” Roadster drivers seat (for a sit) at a CARB meeting. Several before me had struggled to be smooth. I glided in easily with 10 years of SCCA driving behind me. People commented on my ease but I knew it was tricky enough that “top on” would be very hard.
     
  5. Cobos

    Cobos S60 owner since 2013

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    For me it's pretty simple, it's about 100km roundtrip from me to the airport and about 75km to my wife's cabin (where I can top it of if I have to). So say max I might ever need would be 150km of actual driving distance. So 150miles of "normal" range should be plenty... Going out to the airport you got a stretch of road with Norways highest speed limit 62mph, and traffic going about 70mph. So I would like to have a max speed of around 80mph... Should give me plenty of margin :)

    Cobos
     
  6. BlackbirdHighway

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    Tony, good point about the need to figure in a margin for when the battereis are near end of life. What do you think, 80% of original capacity? I guess it's sort of arbitrary, when the batteries are no longer meeting you're needs, then you'll have to replace them. If 50% still meets you're needs, you can wait a long time.

    Also need to have a margin for when the car is stuck in traffic jams. Yes, I know that the thing doesn't idle, so there's no power used up that way as there would be in a gasoline car, but if you're sitting in traffic in 90 degree heat, you'll be running the AC and the stereo, and likely the battery cooling system will also be running.
     
  7. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    I know that the heater is rated at 4kW on defrost, so is the AC the same?

    The Roadster gets about 4 miles to the kWh, so assuming that the 4kW figure is correct for the AC then a half-hour traffic jam would use the equivalent energy for 8 miles of motoring (assuming that the AC runs constantly on full power during this half-hour).
     
  8. Kardax

    Kardax Member

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    On the range thing...

    My longest usual drive is about 120 miles, round trip. So 150 miles of range would service my needs well.

    On the getting-into-the-car thing...

    I'm 5'4", light, and in good shape... and I had little difficulty getting into a Lotus Elise (though it did feel like I was sitting in a lawn chair...)

    My main concern is that I may not be able to reach the pedals! I read somewhere that the seats aren't adjustable, which if true, would make it impossible for me to be a Tesla customer right now. I still have to fly out to San Carlos and try this out in person, maybe in a few months.

    -Ryan
     
  9. BlackbirdHighway

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    I thought getting in and out of the Tesla was only slightly more difficult than my S2000, and I'm used to that.

    Kardax, the seats slide forward and back, but the seat back that doesn't adjust up and down. I'm only a bit bigger than you, and I didn't have any trouble with it, you'll fit fine.
     
  10. Kardax

    Kardax Member

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    That's good to know, BlackbirdHighway.

    The other problem is money... I have enough income to afford a $50,000 car, but really not any more than that...

    Fortunately, given my reduced range needs, I could probably afford a "pre-owned" Roadster with an original battery that's degraded to 150 miles of range. I can certainly see that as a possibility... after 5 years when some rich Tesla owner goes in for a new battery and sees the 2013 models on the show floor with all the enhancements... they might opt for a trade-in and drive home in the new car :)

    -Ryan
     
  11. Iz

    Iz EVs are here to stay

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    In addition to the entertainment system, lights, AC/heater the passenger and their weight will impact range. Cargo may also vary range depending on what one can squeeze into the trunk.

    WhiteStar range will have even more variations. My semi-monthly drive from Westchester, NY to Brooklyn is ~ 55 miles. Add in the wife, two kids, dog and a trunk full of "stuff". Making it back home with "half a tank" would be stunning :cool:
     
  12. nevada

    nevada Member

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    I've never seen a range of greater than 188 miles. I'm a new owner of #333. Love the car but would like to hear from users if this is abnormal.
     
  13. tomsax

    tomsax Member

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    I'm assuming you're talking about ideal range miles after a full standard charge.

    Ignore estimated miles, as that scales what's in the battery by some unknowable measure of how you've been driving recently.

    If you tap the green state-of-charge bar it will change modes. Do that until you're in Range mode. That will unlock the bottom 10% of the battery capacity and your range will jump up about 25 ideal miles. If you charge in range mode, you'll fill the battery pack another 10%, and gain another 25 or so miles, depending on how much capacity the battery pack has lost.

    You should only charge in Range mode if you need the full range, and it's nicer to the battery to not drive down below about 10% in range mode (or 0% in standard mode).

    Welcome to the club!
     
  14. Is there an alternate more accurate way to measure? I have 0 faith in my trip meter as it displays rubbish numbers most of the time.
     

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  15. Alan

    Alan Member

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    That looks like a bug / glitch, suggest you talk to your Tesla rep about. Perhaps you need a firmware upgrade.

    PS It would be cool if it were correct that would give you a 2000 mile range with a > 250 mph top speed!
     
  16. tennis_trs

    tennis_trs 2010 2.0 Roadster Sport

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    I agree. My trip screen seems to always display reasonable values relative to what I've done since I reset the trip. I do usually only check this screen at the end of a trip once I'm stopped in my garage, but expect that it is probably usually reasonable during the trips also.
     
  17. Brian H

    Brian H Banned

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    Range is VERY sensitive to driving style (accel, 'smoothness') and speed. You can squeeze out quite a bit more by dialing back if you think you're going to come up short.
     
  18. Mitrovic

    Mitrovic Member

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    I think this i really nice:

    th_6f07817b.jpg
     
  19. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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  20. Mitrovic

    Mitrovic Member

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    The links do not work for me. Have you arrived safely at home?
     

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