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Minimum Range Needed for Passes like Snoqualmie

Discussion in 'Northwest' started by Regenshire, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Regenshire

    Regenshire Member

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    I am looking at getting a Model 3 sometime next year, or possibly moving into a CPO. I live in Spokane and a common road trip destination is Seattle. I know we have a Supercharger in Ellensburg and Ritzville which covers the route well, but one thing I haven’t been able to find much information about is the range impact of going through Snoqualmie.

    Would a base Model S 60 or Model 3 SR (210 range) have any difficulty (outside of extreme weather) getting through the pass to the next supercharger? Would this become a concern after a few years of degradation? I am trying to determine if smaller battery size is sufficient for my needs or if I need to consider larger battery sizes.

    I am sure there are many Tesla owners who make this trip, so any information on how much battery power is generally eaten up while going through the pass would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
  2. geoc

    geoc Member

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    I am always suprised at how efficient the drive is from ellensburg SC to greater seattle area. usually coming home later at night traffic is light and always cruise at or above speed of traffic going west. i have looked at my last few teslafi logs:

    upload_2017-9-9_21-28-10.png

    i cropped out the max speed for good reason, higher elevation has thinner air so speeding up is not as much of a penatly to efficiency! I suppose the lengthy descent from the summit helps a lot also. you can see only 29kWh was used in my S.

    From Issaquah to the nearest SC in Monroe is only about 35 miles detour. But hey, snoqualmie/seattle/bellevue/lynnwood are all getting their own SC before end of 2017!(?)

    S60 or base 3 would be plenty comfortable. Just hope that they will expand Ellensburg SC soon - it's quite often full during busy times.
     
    • Informative x 2
  3. webbbcam

    webbbcam not-so-junior member

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    Traveling west over the mountain is relatively easy after getting a range charge at Ellensburg.
    The problem is going east.
    Seattle is a supercharger desert.
    If you don't have a destination charger to use while there your options are plug share for private level 2 charging or ChaDeMo.

    I have a ChaDeMo adapter and it has saved my a$$ when I needed to cross the pass during a snowstorm. I charged at North Bend several times but not at the summit or in Cle Elum.

    John
     
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  4. Regenshire

    Regenshire Member

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    That efficiency is really surprising, I am impressed at those numbers! Is it similar going East? Thanks for the info.
     
  5. Regenshire

    Regenshire Member

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    I would take that into consideration for any trip over to Seattle. I would make sure to have destination charging at anywhere I stay. What would be the minimum miles of charge you would feel safe leaving Seattle (assume downtown) to get through the pass to ellensburg?
     
  6. webbbcam

    webbbcam not-so-junior member

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    My habit (which is not entirely rational) is to always take the navigation mileage and add 50 to 70 miles to it. Good weather, calm winds and I'm good with 160 to 170 miles of range. Cold weather, snow, wind and I'll want 180 or 190.

    Remember the good news... its all downhill from the summit to Ellensburg! Even if you mess up just slow down a little and you'll get there.

    John
     
    • Like x 2
  7. Regenshire

    Regenshire Member

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    Thanks for the information John! I am still contemplating a larger battery, but now I know I don't need it for this drive.
     
  8. PLUS EV

    PLUS EV Member

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    Trust me when I say to just get the bigger battery.

    I know it sucks because it's more expensive but if you are doing any type of long drive with any regularity, you will want the bigger battery pack. And by long drive I mean 200 miles or more, so Spoke to Seattle definitely counts! Even 100 miles or more in one direction often leaves you wanting a bigger battery so you can make the round trip without worrying about charging.

    But to answer one of your questions, SEA->Ellensburg will burn a lot more of the battery than Ellensburg->SEA due to the difference in elevation. Play around with evtripplanner for a while and this will become obvious to you.

    Also don't assume that Rated Miles = real-world miles because that is rarely the case. Pretty much only if it's summer and you are driving like a grandma. There is definitely some misleading marketing going on with the whole "rated miles" thing.
     
    • Informative x 2
  9. Regenshire

    Regenshire Member

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    Thanks for the input. I don't currently do any long drives with regularity. I have only done two 200+ mile road trips in the past three years (both to Seattle), I typically fly. But, part of the reason for that is my current car is not very comfortable for extended travel, and doesn't even have cruise control.

    I am leaning towards a higher range model, but the financially responsible part of me keeps asking if it is worth the additional expense for that 0.5% of usage. I still think it probably makes sense to go with increased range simply because I prefer to drive a car for about 10 years before getting a new one, so starting with more range will help account for the possible 10% degradation that it could experience over 10+ years.

    I like to think I would take more roadtrips in a Tesla, and having that enhanced range would cut down on the number of stops you have to take. But that doesn't match my current usage, so it could just be my mind brain trying to justify getting a bigger and better version.

    Thanks for all of the input everyone, its been helpful.
     
  10. Off Shore

    Off Shore Supporting Member

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    After two years and six cross-country trips with the 70D, I've concluded that if we pull the trigger on our M3 reservation it'll be with the small battery, and the savings applied to automation and comfort. Maybe it's because I'm old, but I've found it quite easy to adapt to driving for two hours and hanging out for 40 minutes. Rinse and repeat four times and you have a 500+ mile day.

    With pace of the buildout of Superchargers accelerating the way it is, all that's missing for me is lighting up the Pan American Highway.
     
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  11. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    Given experience with past EVs and the weight of the Model 3, I would expect every 1,000' of elevation gain to cost you about 7 miles of range. This should be reasonably constant.

    Then when you come down on the other side, you might get about 4 of those miles back from regen. This number can vary based on steepness, speed, wind drag, etc.

    Net cost for a mountain pass would typically be about 3 miles per 1,000', so a 3,000' pass like Snoqualmie would cost you 9 miles of range.

    PLUS EV mentioned some benefits to larger battery packs. There is some more detail on said benefits HERE. It is comparing 30 to 100, rather than 50 to 75 so the numbers will be different, though the general principles are the same.
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. Yarder

    Yarder Member

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    I just made the trip over the pass and back this weekend. Made a trip to Pullman for a most exciting football game. But I won't go into that here!

    Left my daughter's home in Lynnwood with 205 miles. Drove to Everett to pick up my son, and when I whizzed by the last exit to Monroe, I had 175 miles on the battery. In a MS 70D. Went down 405 to I-90 and over the pass. Two of us in the car and I had something like 40 miles left when I got to Ellensburg.

    I did wish I had just a little more battery when I left Ritzviille with 225 miles to go to Pullman. I had hoped I might have had enough to do a round trip. Had a room in Moscow, so that extra 10 miles each way burned up my reserve to make it back to Ritzville. I had to top off at a destination charger for two hours to get an extra 50 miles. The non-supercharger destination place would have been good had I been staying there.

    On the way back, we got word that Snoqualmie Pass was closed due to fires, so I left Ellensburg with 210 miles and we headed up north over Bluet Pass, Leavenworth and then to Monroe. We landed in Monroe with 67 miles left. Not quite enough to go to Everett and then Lynnwood. I topped off at Monroe just long enough to go to the bathroom at Fred Meyer. Wound up with a little over 100 miles, plenty enough to go to Everett and Lynnwood, where I am now using my Nema 14-50 for an overnight charge.
     
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  13. ReddyLeaf

    ReddyLeaf Member

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    If you're really only doing a few trips, save some money since the extra time charging to 100% at the SC won't be too much trouble. It's the one downside I've heard from folks with the S60. If you travel a lot (say >1/month), then I'd definitely get the bigger battery. In this case, money for the larger battery buys you faster charging (not needing to fill to 100% at slower charging speeds). My 70D has about 235 mi range, and it's just about perfect with the current SC spacing. All 32,000 mi are road trips (Leaf for in-town) and the only place I've needed to 100% charge has been Tremonton, UT to Twin Falls, ID (snowing, 20 mph headwind), South Dakoda (85 mph), and Casa Grande, AZ (L1 destination charger in Tucson only). Most SC stops are just enough time to use the rest room, get a snack, maybe a short walk to get the circulation moving. With the added SCs in 2017-2018, the need to 100% charge will be even more reduced.
     
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  14. Regenshire

    Regenshire Member

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    That is very informative Yarder, thanks for posting the details of your latest trip. Did you use the destination charger at your hotel, or pop into another location that had one? What is the etiquette on using a Destination Charger at place you are not staying?
     
  15. Yarder

    Yarder Member

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    I went to a hotel that I was NOT staying at. I did however call them asking for a room on a PAC-12 football weekend numerous times. I said I wanted to stay there because of the destination charger. They assured me that I was welcome to come and use the charger anyway. Did that, but it took two hours to get an extra 50 miles, the amount needed to get back to Ritzville. I filled up all the way on my way to Pullman in Ritzville to shorten the top off time needed in Pullman.
     
  16. goneskiian

    goneskiian Active Member

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    Great to hear they let you charge anyway. Maybe I should have inquired about staying at the hotel I asked about charging at in Ketchum first. I won't name them but they wanted $15 an hour to use their destination charger. They didn't say as much, but I assume it was free for guests or dinner patrons. Then again, there were 2 others in town, one was ICEd, and the other I probably should have tried harder to find (didn't spot it on a quick drive by). No worries though 120v wall outlet in the condo I stayed in for the 4 days I was there turned out to be perfect.
     
  17. KJD

    KJD Supporting Member

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    Get the biggest battery that will fit into your budget. So glad I got the day 85 instead of the 60. It will charge faster and it will last longer. Easy choice for me.
     
  18. PLUS EV

    PLUS EV Member

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    Somewhat off topic, but one way to get access to destination chargers that are labeled "customers only" is to eat at the restaurant or even just get a drink in the bar. Of course, for this to work, you need a hotel that has a restaurant and you need to be there when it's open.

    From a practical standpoint, if you are after hours or just don't want to be a customer of any sort, I think a decent option is to just find it yourself and plug in! It's one of those where it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission lol. This may not work at more urban hotels where they have a parking garage or something similar.
     
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