Minnesota - FSD Beta Videos

[dburkland]

Video #38 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - NE Minneapolis Test Loop (Night)

This video contains footage recorded on the evening of Christmas Eve 2021 of FSD Beta 10.8 driving me around a test loop that I came up with in Northeast Minneapolis. I will be doing this drive after each release with the goal of testing for improvements as well as regressions (daytime & nighttime). My current thoughts of FSD Beta 10.8 so far can be found here:

Positive / Improvements

• Improved Confidence When Turning Onto Busier Roads - The car seems to be more confident when turning left or right onto busy roads.
• Improved Car Positioning Before Left Turn - With FSD Beta 10.8 the car no longer positions itself into the oncoming lane while waiting to turn left onto 37th Ave NE.
• Merging - While merging was a big complaint of mine in FSD Beta 10.5 & 10.6 it looks to have been dramatically improved with 10.8.
• Jaywalking Pedestrians - The car seems overall more confident when interacting with pedestrians and no longer seems as eager to jam on the brakes.
• Better Path Selection On Tight Left Turns - The car is noticeably better at line selection on left turns with a late apex.
• Yield Behavior Before Turn Much Improved - The car does a much better job at smoothly yielding to approaching traffic by creeping forward until it is safe to turn. In previous builds the car would notoriously jam on the brakes and surprise following traffic.
• Faster Handling Of Traffic Light Transitions - FSD does a noticeably better job in 10.6 of handling traffic light transitions as it approaches an intersection.
• Behavior When Light Transitions From Yellow To Red - So far I haven't seen this issue return in FSD Beta 10.8 however more testing still needs to be done to consider it completely fixed.
• Noticeable Improvements w/ Several 3-way & 4-way Stops - At a few select 3-way & 4-way stops the car seems more confident and proceeds through them more quickly.

Needs Work

• Abrupt Deceleration When Approaching Slower or Turning Traffic - The car seems to be more jerky with brake & throttle inputs when approaching slower traffic. This seems like a regression and seems very similar to what I experienced with FSD Beta 10.3.1 & 10.4.
• Planner Behavior w/ Partially Snow Covered Roads - This was a previous complaint of mine with FSD Beta 10.5 & 10.6 however I have to do additional testing with 10.8 to see if this behavior is still present.
• Decision Making Re: Approaching Traffic - The car still seems to struggle with determining how fast oncoming traffic is accelerating and quickly making decisions on whether to yield or initiate a turn.
• Side Visibility With Approaching Traffic - While detection of laterally approaching traffic seems to have been improved in 10.8 it still remains a problem area for FSD Beta and requires further attention.
• Use Of Short Turn Lanes - I have yet to test this scenario in FSD Beta 10.8 so more to come on this.
• Transition From 1 to 2 Lanes - I have yet to test this scenario in FSD Beta 10.8 so more to come on this.
• Sweeping Lines - When turning left at a busy intersection, the car should avoid using a sweeping line and instead take a more point & shoot approach. Aligning itself to either the painted inside line or the curb would help make the car's intent more predictable.
• Wide Unmarked Roads - The car still likes to position itself in the center of wider unmarked roads even with oncoming traffic. If cars are not parked on the shoulder of the direction we are traveling the car should bias itself more towards the curb vs dead center in the entire road.
• Auto High Beam Usage - While it isn't quite as annoying as previous builds auto high beams still engages in urban areas where high beams should never be used.
• Some 3-way & 4-way Stops Still A Problem - At several 3-way or 4-way stops near my house the car will always overly hesitate even when there are no cars present (and visibility is clear).
• Out of date maps - Need I say more at this point?

00:00 - Intro
01:04 - More Success w/ Engaging FSD in Driveway
02:06 - Possible Improvement - Better Positioning Before Turning However Increased Hesitancy Making Left Turn
02:36 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn-Only Lane
03:08 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Planner Continues To Get Confused On This Particular Road
04:11 - Possible Improvement - More Confidence w/ Jaywalking Pedestrians
04:44 - Possible Improvement - Continued Improvement Of Previously Problematic 4-way Stop (10.6+)
05:25 - Persistent Issue - Car Continues To Stray Too Much Toward Center On Unmarked Road
05:47 - Confirmed Improvement - More Confidence w/ Previously Problematic 3-way Stop
06:46 - Car Doing A Great Job With Curvy Sections Of Road
07:17 - Persistent Issue - Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center At Certain Spots
07:36 - Persistent Issue - Persistent Issue Where Car Does Not Stay Close Enough To Right Curb
08:05 - New Issue - Aggressive Throttle Input While Making Left Turn
08:29 - FSD Performing Smooth Left Turn
08:45 - Issue - FSD Not Being Aggressive Enough When Passing Cars That Are Parking
09:02 - FSD Again Doing A Great Job w/ Left Turn
09:29 - Confirmed Improvement - Car Does An Excellent Job Of Avoid Dead Space
09:52 - FSD Doing An Excellent Job Gradually Slowing For Late Turning Car
10:18 - New Issue - Car Incorrectly Positions Itself When Approaching Particular Intersection
11:19 - Issue - FSD Not Being Aggressive Enough When Passing Cars That Are Turning
12:26 - FSD Performing Yet Another Solid Left Turn
13:02 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Will Not Proceed On Green In Particular Spot
13:38 - Persistent Issue - Car Strays Too Much Towards Bike Lane
14:14 - New Issue - Excessive Brake Input When Approaching Intersection
14:57 - Disengagement - Navigation Fail On Driver’s Part
15:11 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Right Lane (Parking)
16:28 - Persistent Issue - Car Carries Too Much Speed Into Right Turn After Cancelling Lane Changes
16:59 - FSD Doing A Great Job With Impatient Traffic
17:12 - Persistent Issue - Excessive Braking When Encountering Traffic Turning Right Into Oncoming Lane
17:25 - Issue - FSD Again Not Being Aggressive Enough When Passing Cars That Are Turning
18:09 - Disengagement - Avoiding Sink Hole As Somebody Hit Road Cone
18:19 - New Issue - More Excessive Brake Input When Approaching Intersection
18:45 - Confirmed Improvement - Car Again Does An Excellent Job Of Avoid Dead Space
19:41 - New Issue - Aggressive Throttle Input Again While Making Left Turn
20:29 - Persistent Issue - FSD Overly Hesitates At Particular Empty 4-way Stop
21:10 - Persistent Issue - Car Uses Too Much Of Road When Making Simple Left Turn
21:42 - Persistent Issue - FSD Overly Hesitates At Empty 3-way Stop

 

[dburkland]

Video #39 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - NE Minneapolis Test Loop (Day)

This video contains footage recorded on Christmas morning 2021 of FSD Beta 10.8 driving me around a test loop that I came up with in Northeast Minneapolis. I will be doing this drive after each release with the goal of testing for improvements as well as regressions (daytime & nighttime). My current thoughts of FSD Beta 10.8 so far can be found here:

Positive / Improvements

• Improved Confidence When Turning Onto Busy Roads - The car seems to be more confident when turning left or right onto busy roads.
• Improved Car Positioning Before Particular Left Turn - With FSD Beta 10.8 the car no longer positions itself into the oncoming lane while waiting to turn left onto 37th Ave NE.
• Merging - While merging was a big complaint of mine in FSD Beta 10.5 & 10.6 it looks to have been dramatically improved in 10.8.
• Jaywalking Pedestrians - The car seems overall more confident when interacting with pedestrians and no longer seems as eager to jam on the brakes.
• Better Path Selection On Tight Left Turns - The car is noticeably better at line selection on left turns with a late apex.
• Improved Handling Of Traffic Light Transitions - FSD does a noticeably better job of confidently stopping or proceeding through intersections when the traffic light is yellow turning red.
• Noticeable Improvements w/ Several 3-way & 4-way Stops - At a few select 3-way & 4-way stops the car seems more confident and proceeds through them noticeably faster than previous builds.
• Decision Making Re: Approaching Traffic Before Turning - The car seems a bit better at quickly reacting to oncoming cars before initiating a turn. Occasional jerkiness has been encountered so there is still room for further improvement.
• Abrupt Deceleration When Approaching Slower or Turning Traffic - After performing a few more drives with FSD Beta 10.8 I no longer think this is an issue. The added regen braking has overall made FSD much smoother when coming to a stop or approaching slower traffic.
• Side Visibility With Approaching Traffic - While detection of laterally approaching traffic seems to have been improved in 10.8 it still remains a problem area for FSD Beta and requires further refinement.
• Navigation Around Roadkill - For the first time I noticed planner routed the car around roadkill on the right side of the road. This is the first time I've seen the car do something like this so that was for sure cool to see.

Needs Work

• V11 UI - I have experienced several performance & stability issues with the new V11 UI that has required me to reboot the MCU several times (see here and here for examples). Overall I like what Tesla is attempting to do with the new UI especially with enhancements like the full screen FSD visualizations. With that said, commonly used controls like seat heaters are buried behind additional menus that make the new UI more difficult to use while driving.
• Slower Left Turns - The car seems to accelerate much more slowly through left turns in FSD Beta 10.8.
• Odd Car Positioning Issues - I have noticed the car will awkwardly position itself to the right when coming to a stop at several intersections along the same stretch of road. What is awkward about this behavior is the car will normally proceed through the intersections and stay in the left-most lane while doing so. To avoid confusing surrounding traffic I commonly disengage FSD when it does this to correctly reposition the car.
• Car Will Not Proceed On Green - At two particular intersections the car will not proceed on green even though it is clear to do so. I surmise this issue is map related however I have no way to confirm this. This behavior has been present throughout each of the FSD Beta 10.x releases.
• Sweeping Lines - When turning left at a busy intersection, the car should avoid using a sweeping line and instead take a more point & shoot approach. Aligning itself to either the painted inside curb or line would help make the car's intent much more predictable.
• Wide Unmarked Roads - The car still likes to position itself in the center of wider unmarked roads even with oncoming traffic. If cars are not parked on the shoulder of the direction we are traveling the car should bias itself more towards the curb vs dead center of the road.
• Auto High Beam Usage - While it isn't quite as annoying as previous builds auto high beams continues to engage in urban areas where high beams should never be used.
• Some 3-way & 4-way Stops Still A Problem - At several 3-way or 4-way stops near my house the car will always overly hesitate even when there are no cars present (and visibility is clear).
• Out of date maps - TESLA, PLEASE UPDATE THE NAVIGATION DATA!
• Planner Behavior w/ Partially Snow Covered Roads - I have yet to test this scenario in FSD Beta 10.8 so more to come on this.
• Use Of Short Turn Lanes - I have yet to test this scenario in FSD Beta 10.8 so more to come on this.
• Transition From 1 to 2 Lanes - I have yet to test this scenario in FSD Beta 10.8 so more to come on this.

00:00 - Intro
01:05 - More Confidence in 10.8 When Engaging FSD From Driveway
01:41 - Confirmed Improvement - Better Positioning and Handling Of Left Turn Onto 37th Ave NE
02:28 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn-Only Lane
02:39 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Planner Continues To Get Confused At Intersection Of Central & 37th Ave NE
03:16 - Persistent Issue - PSA to Tesla - PLEASE UPDATE THE NAV DATA
04:14 - Confirmed Improvement - Increased Confidence w/ Previously Problematic 4-way Stop (v10.5 or earlier)
04:38 - Persistent Issue - Car Continues To Stray Too Much Toward Center On Unmarked Road
05:13 - Confirmed Improvement - Increased Confidence w/ Previously Problematic 3-way Stop (v10.5 or earlier)
05:49 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Planner Continues To Get Confused On This Particular Road
06:50 - Persistent Issue Since 10.6 - Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
07:15 - Persistent Issue Since 10.6 - Another Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
07:33 - Persistent Issue Since 10.6 - Yet Another Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
07:46 - Possible Improvement - Increased Confidence w/ Left Turn Onto 42nd Ave N
08:10 - Jerkiness While Waiting For Oncoming Traffic Before Turning Left
09:03 - FSD Performing Smooth Left Turn After Waiting For Oncoming Traffic
10:44 - New Issue in 10.8 - Car Incorrectly Positions Itself To the Right At Intersection On Washington Ave N
11:52 - Persistent Issue - Car Excessively Brakes For Car Turning Into Oncoming Lane
12:45 - Possible Issue in 10.8 - Slower, More Cautious Turns
13:26 - Persistent Issue - Car Will Not Proceed On Green At Intersection Of Plymouth Ave N & 2nd St N
14:03 - New Behavior - Planner Navigates Around Roadkill
14:35 - Possible Issue in 10.8 - Increased Jerkiness w/ Left Turn At Intersection Of Eighth Ave NE & University Ave NE
15:19 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Right Lane (Parking)
15:51 - Possible Improvement - Car Recovers After Cancelled Lane Changes To Prepare For Upcoming Right Turn
16:34 - Car Completing A Smooth Right Turn
16:51 - Possible Improvement - Planner Adjusts Path Around Upcoming Car Waiting To Turn
17:55 - Possible Improvement - Car Proceeds w/ Left Turn Even With Fast Changing Traffic Light
18:15 - Confirmed Improvement - Car Does An Excellent Job Avoiding Dead Space
18:44 - Persistent Issue - Planner Positions Itself Too Far To The Right Before Making Left Turn
19:23 - FSD Doing A Solid Job Yielding For Oncoming Traffic At Busy Intersection
19:46 - Persistent Issue - FSD Continues To Overly Hesitates At Particular Empty 4-way Stop
20:40 - FSD Doing A Great Job Making Smooth Right Turn On Red
21:02 - Confirmed Improvement - Car Again Does An Excellent Job Avoiding Dead Space
21:23 - Persistent Issue - Car Uses Too Much Of Road When Making Simple Left Turn
21:51 - Persistent Issue - FSD Overly Hesitates At Empty 3-way Stop
22:13 - Closing Comments About Tesla OS 2021.44.25.6 / FSD Beta 10.8

 

[power.saver]

Video #40 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Home to Timberwolf CrossFit (No Highway)

This video contains footage recorded on the afternoon of December 27th, 2021 of FSD Beta 10.8 driving me from my home (NE Minneapolis) to Timberwolf CrossFit (St. Paul, MN), all on city streets (no highways). We received a few inches of snow the night before so side streets were still mostly covered in snow and poorly plowed. Although there were several disengagements due to the road conditions I still was able to recognize a few improvements that prove Tesla is paying attention to wintry conditions and training accordingly.

00:00 - Intro
00:40 - Too Much Acceleration When Engaging FSD From Driveway
01:04 - FSD Doing A Decent Job Handling Fully Snow Covered Roads
01:43 - Persistent Issue - FSD Struggles To Detect & Avoid Unplowed Parts Of Road
01:54 - Disengagement - Avoiding Large Chunks Of Snow To Save My Lowered Car
02:04 - Issue - Car Gets Confused And Unable To Proceed
02:31 - Disengagement - Excessive Throttle Input Results In Loss Of Grip
02:45 - Disengagement - FSD Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
03:23 - Persistent Issue - Rolling Distance Needs To Be Extended Before An Otherwise Smooth Left Turn
04:06 - Persistent Issue - FSD Continues To Overly Hesitate At Particular 4-way Stop
04:25 - Disengagement - FSD Again Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
04:39 - 2 Disengagements - FSD Again Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
05:00 - General Comment About Dead Space Improvement in FSD Beta 10.8
05:43 - Issue - Micro-Braking Perhaps Due To Intermittent Line Visibility
06:01 - Disengagement / Persistent Issue - Confusion w/ Path Selection After Crossing Intersection
06:27 - Disengagement / Persistent Issue - More Confusion w/ Path Selection After Crossing Intersection
06:54 - Issue - More Micro-Braking Perhaps Again Due To Intermittent Line Visibility
07:36 - Possible Improvement - Improved Awareness Of Driving Space & Human-Like Lane Change On Fully Snow Covered Road
08:12 - Possible Improvement - Car Properly Stays In Left Lane After Crossing Previously Problematic Intersection
08:53 - Disengagement - Car Strays Too Much Towards Snow Bank On Side Of Road
09:09 - FSD Doing An Excellent Job Moving Into Partially Snow Covered Turn Lane & Completing Smooth Left Turn
09:42 - Possible Improvement - Improved Handling & Maneuvering Around Turning Vehicles That Encroach Into Our Lane
10:26 - Possible Improvement - Increased Confidence w/ Traffic Light Detection From Afar As Well As Better Handling Of Traffic Light Transitions
11:11 - Disengagement - Car Fails To Avoid Snow Towards Inside Curb Which Results In Loss Of Grip
12:44 - Confirmed Improvement - Braking Inputs Continue To Get Smoother w/ Each FSD Beta Release
13:34 - Disengagement / Persistent Issue - FSD Attempts To Turn Into Oncoming Lane
14:06 - Disengagement - FSD Again Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
15:02 - Disengagement - Car Again Strays Too Much Towards Snow Bank On Side Of Road
15:28 - Possible Improvement - Car Does A Great Job Aligning Itself To Left Curb Before Initiating Left Turn
15:54 - Issue - Car Gets Confused By Intermittent Line Visibility
16:56 - Possible Improvement - Improved Handling Of Turning Vehicles When Approaching From Behind
18:00 - Confirmed Improvement - Improved Confidence w/ Previously Problematic 3-way Stop
18:15 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Slows Down For No Apparent Reason
18:38 - Feature Request - Add Brief Prompt Describing Why Car Is Slowing Down
18:59 - Disengagement - Car Again Strays Too Much Towards Snow Bank On Side Of Road
19:21 - Issue - Car Again Gets Confused By Intermittent Line Visibility
20:07 - Issue - Car Again Gets Confused By Intermittent Line Visibility
20:20 - FSD Recovers From Lane Placement Confusion And Executes A Solid Left Turn

Happy New Year! Thanks for another great video. Still troubled at 13:30 with the left turn. The planner was correct until part way through the turn, then switched to the wrong side of the road. Wonder what's wrong here? Mapping? I got new map files with the V.11 update, did FSD get them? What's your thoughts on the new V.11 in regards to cold weather controls (defrost/seat heaters)?

 

[dburkland]

Happy New Year! Thanks for another great video. Still troubled at 13:30 with the left turn. The planner was correct until part way through the turn, then switched to the wrong side of the road. Wonder what's wrong here? Mapping? I got new map files with the V.11 update, did FSD get them? What's your thoughts on the new V.11 in regards to cold weather controls (defrost/seat heaters)?

Something seems to be wrong with my video as it cut the last part off for some reason so I'm re-uploading now (apologies for that!). Re: the behavior at 13:30, it is extremely bizarre and frustrating to see it still there in 10.8. Does your navigation data show a different time stamp on your software screen? Mine still shows navigation data from 2020 :\.

Re: cold weather controls, V11 is a step backwards however I'm hopeful they hear our feedback and will address accordingly in the next update.

 

[dburkland]

Video #40 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Home to Timberwolf CrossFit (No Highway)

This video contains footage recorded on the afternoon of December 27th, 2021 of FSD Beta 10.8 driving me from my home (NE Minneapolis) to Timberwolf CrossFit (St. Paul, MN), all on city streets (no highways). We received a few inches of snow the night before so side streets were still mostly covered in snow and poorly plowed. Although there were several disengagements due to the road conditions I still was able to recognize a few improvements that prove Tesla is paying attention to wintry conditions and training accordingly.

00:00 - Intro
00:40 - Too Much Acceleration When Engaging FSD From Driveway
01:04 - FSD Doing A Decent Job Handling Fully Snow Covered Roads
01:43 - Persistent Issue - FSD Struggles To Detect & Avoid Unplowed Parts Of Road
01:54 - Disengagement - Avoiding Large Chunks Of Snow To Save My Lowered Car
02:04 - Issue - Car Gets Confused And Unable To Proceed
02:31 - Disengagement - Excessive Throttle Input Results In Loss Of Grip
02:45 - Disengagement - FSD Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
03:23 - Persistent Issue - Rolling Distance Needs To Be Extended Before An Otherwise Smooth Left Turn
04:06 - Persistent Issue - FSD Continues To Overly Hesitate At Particular 4-way Stop
04:25 - Disengagement - FSD Again Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
04:39 - 2 Disengagements - FSD Again Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
05:00 - General Comment About Dead Space Improvement in FSD Beta 10.8
05:43 - Issue - Micro-Braking Perhaps Due To Intermittent Line Visibility
06:01 - Disengagement / Persistent Issue - Confusion w/ Path Selection After Crossing Intersection
06:27 - Disengagement / Persistent Issue - More Confusion w/ Path Selection After Crossing Intersection
06:54 - Issue - More Micro-Braking Perhaps Again Due To Intermittent Line Visibility
07:36 - Possible Improvement - Improved Awareness Of Driving Space & Human-Like Lane Change On Fully Snow Covered Road
08:12 - Possible Improvement - Car Properly Stays In Left Lane After Crossing Previously Problematic Intersection
08:53 - Disengagement - Car Strays Too Much Towards Snow Bank On Side Of Road
09:09 - FSD Doing An Excellent Job Moving Into Partially Snow Covered Turn Lane & Completing Smooth Left Turn
09:42 - Possible Improvement - Improved Handling & Maneuvering Around Turning Vehicles That Encroach Into Our Lane
10:26 - Possible Improvement - Increased Confidence w/ Traffic Light Detection From Afar As Well As Better Handling Of Traffic Light Transitions
11:11 - Disengagement - Car Fails To Avoid Snow Towards Inside Curb Which Results In Loss Of Grip
12:44 - Confirmed Improvement - Braking Inputs Continue To Get Smoother w/ Each FSD Beta Release
13:34 - Disengagement / Persistent Issue - FSD Attempts To Turn Into Oncoming Lane
14:06 - Disengagement - FSD Again Struggles To Detect & Avoid Snowbank On Edge Of Road / Parking Space
15:02 - Disengagement - Car Again Strays Too Much Towards Snow Bank On Side Of Road
15:28 - Possible Improvement - Car Does A Great Job Aligning Itself To Left Curb Before Initiating Left Turn
15:54 - Issue - Car Gets Confused By Intermittent Line Visibility
16:56 - Possible Improvement - Improved Handling Of Turning Vehicles When Approaching From Behind
18:00 - Confirmed Improvement - Improved Confidence w/ Previously Problematic 3-way Stop
18:15 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Slows Down For No Apparent Reason
18:38 - Feature Request - Add Brief Prompt Describing Why Car Is Slowing Down
18:59 - Disengagement - Car Again Strays Too Much Towards Snow Bank On Side Of Road
19:21 - Issue - Car Again Gets Confused By Intermittent Line Visibility
20:07 - Issue - Car Again Gets Confused By Intermittent Line Visibility
20:20 - FSD Recovers From Lane Placement Confusion And Executes A Solid Left Turn

 

[dburkland]

Video #41 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Timberwolf CrossFit to Micro Center

This video contains footage recorded on the evening of December 27th, 2021 of AutoPilot + FSD Beta 10.8 driving me from Timberwolf CrossFit (St. Paul, MN) to Micro Center (St. Louis Park, MN). Except for a single disengagement (that was my fault), the car did a fantastic job navigating the confusing streets of St. Paul even with mixed road conditions and heavy traffic. During this drive I was able to confirm noticeable improvements in FSD Beta 10.8 including improved handling of jaywalking pedestrians as well as smoother merge behavior when merging onto freeways.

00:00 - Intro
00:30 - Confirmed Improvement - Improved Handling Of Turning Vehicles When Approaching From Behind
01:06 - FSD Nails Lane Change w/o Seeing Center Line
01:40 - Persistent Issue - Car Needs To Be More Assertive In Passing Turning Vehicles In Heavy Traffic
02:08 - Confirmed Improvement - Increased Confidence w/ Jaywalking Pedestrians
02:44 - Disengagement - Driver Error (FSD Did A Great Job w/ Left Turn In Heavy Traffic)
03:22 - Confirmed Improvement - Another Example Of Improved Handling Of Turning Vehicles When Approaching From Behind
03:39 - Confirmed Improvement - Improved Handling Of Merging Onto Freeway (v10.5 / 10.6)

 

[dburkland]

Video #42 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Home to Work

This video contains footage recorded on the morning of December 29th, 2021 of Autopilot + FSD Beta 10.8 driving me from my home (NE Minneapolis) to my company’s office (Edina, MN). Thanks to a rapid drop in temperature overnight, the roads were fairly slippery and as a result I experienced several disengagements along the way. In future builds it would be great to see Tesla address this limitation by limiting the rate of acceleration when the outside temperature is below a certain threshold (maybe 20F). On top of these disengagements I also came across another issue which occurs when you override AutoPilot or FSD by providing steering wheel input. Doing so disables autosteer & activates Traffic Aware Cruise Control (TACC) which completely ignores the previously set speed (as well as road conditions) and instead accelerates to the current speed limit + any configured offset. This behavior is dangerous and could quickly put the driver into a peculiar situation. Aside from these issues I was able to recognize a few improvements which include FSD properly avoiding dead space as well as finally using a shared bike / turn lane even when the outside curbing was partially covered in snow.

00:00 - Intro
00:33 - Issue - FSD Cuts The Corner Too Sharply Running Over Small Snowbank
01:07 - Disengagement - Car Strays Too Much Towards Snow Bank On Side Of Road
01:18 - Disengagement - Avoiding Large Chunks Of Snow To Save My Lowered Car
01:29 - Persistent Issue - Disengaging FSD Via Grabbing Wheel SHOULD NOT Reset Set Speed To Speed Limit + Offset
01:47 - Disengagement - Driver Error
02:00 - Disengagement - Excessive Throttle Input Results In Loss Of Grip
02:24 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn-Only Lane
03:01 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Planner Continues To Get Confused At Intersection Of Central & 37th Ave NE
04:06 - Issue - FSD Overly Hesitate At 4-way Stop Possibly Due To Road Conditions
04:49 - Issue - Car Properly Aligns Itself To Right Curb On Wide Unmarked Road Only In Snowy Conditions (Still An Issue w/ Clear Conditions)
05:40 - Disengagement - Excessive Throttle Input Again Results In Loss Of Grip
06:25 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Planner Continues To Get Confused On This Particular Road
07:22 - Disengagement - Excessive Throttle Input Again Results In Loss Of Grip
07:57 - Persistent Issue Since 10.5 - Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
08:25 - Persistent Issue Since 10.5 - Another Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
08:43 - Persistent Issue Since 10.2 - Yet Another Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
08:59 - Disengagement - Excessive Throttle Input Again Results In Loss Of Grip
09:41 - FSD Doing A Nice Job Turning Left Onto Partially Snow Covered Road
10:02 - Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn-Only Lane
10:23 - Confirmed Improvement - Car Does An Excellent Job Avoiding Dead Space
10:43 - Issue - Micro-Braking For No Apparent Reason
10:54 - Disengagement - Avoiding Large Chunks Of Snow To Save My Lowered Car
11:07 - Issue - Excessive Acceleration After Smooth Left Turn
11:21 - Possible Improvement - Planner Properly Uses Shared Bike + Turn Lane When Turning Right
13:09 - Issue - Manually Exited Freeway Due to NoAP Being Unavailable Due to Blinded Camera(s)
13:30 - Disengagement - Rough Transition From Legacy AutoPilot to FSD
13:50 - Issue - Excessive Hesitation Before Making Smooth Right Turn
14:17 - FSD Doing A Great Merging Even w/ Partially Snow Covered Road
14:31 - Slight Amount Of Hesitation Before Making Smooth Left Turn

 

[johnmodely]

Started a channel to follow FSD progress in the hardest environment FSD will have to solve...NYC. Will be posting more vids in Manhattan so sub if you want to see more!

 

[dburkland]

Video #43 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Work To Micro Center (Zero Disengagements!)

This video contains footage recorded on the afternoon of December 29th, 2021 of FSD Beta 10.8 driving me from my company’s office (Edina, MN) to Micro Center (St. Louis Park). Rather than take the recommended route which utilizes Highway 100, I instead used another route which leverages only city streets. Thanks to a rapid drop in temperature overnight, the roads were fairly slippery and so I expected to experience several disengagements along the way. Similar to another drive that I completed earlier in the day (see here), I reduced the set speed by a few mph to match the slippery conditions. Even with challenging winter road conditions, glare from the sun, and one of the toughest routes I've put in front of FSD Beta yet, the car performed extremely well resulting in a ZERO disengagement drive! Even though I have experienced zero disengagement drives in the past (10.3.1 was the last), the conditions and route were nowhere near as challenging as the ones encountered in this drive. There were of course several minor annoyances that I noticed (and noted) however forward progress continues to be made with FSD Beta and 10.8 is for sure the best release yet. After driving a few hundred miles with FSD Beta 10.8 I have been able to recognize several improvements, a few new issues, and several persistent issues from previous builds that unfortunately still remain. I have compiled a list of these findings and posted them here:

Improvements Compared To 10.6.1

• Improved Confidence When Turning Onto Busy Roads - The car seems to be more confident in FSD Beta 10.8 when making left or right turns onto busy roads. While this is a slight improvement over 10.6.1, the car needs to be even more confident in this area in order to comfortably blend in with human drivers.
• Improved Car Positioning Before Particular Left Turn - With FSD Beta 10.8 the car no longer positions itself into the oncoming lane while waiting to turn left onto 37th Ave NE.
• Merging - Merging onto freeways was basically broken with FSD Beta 10.5 & 10.6 however it seems Tesla has applied a good amount of attention here and fixed a lot of the previous issues. With that said merging still has a long way to go and thus further work is required to get merging behavior closer to good human drivers.
• Jaywalking Pedestrians - The car is more confident when interacting with pedestrians (especially jaywalking pedestrians) and is less eager to jam on the brakes like it used to with previous builds.
• Better Path Selection On Tight Left Turns - This improvement was first noticed in 10.6.1 and still appears to be present in 10.8.
• Improved Handling Of Traffic Light Transitions - FSD does a noticeably better job of confidently stopping or proceeding through intersections when the traffic light is yellow turning red. With that said I still have had 1-2 occurences where the light went red while I was almost completely through an intersection and the car attempted to jam on the brakes.
• Noticeable Improvements w/ Several 3-way & 4-way Stops - This improvement was first noticed in 10.6.1 and still appears to be present in 10.8.
• Decision Making Re: Approaching Traffic Before Turning - The car seems a bit better at quickly reacting to oncoming cars before initiating a turn. Occasional jerkiness has been encountered so there is still room for further improvement.
• Abrupt Deceleration When Approaching Slower or Turning Traffic - After performing a few more drives with FSD Beta 10.8 I no longer think this is an issue. The added regen braking has overall made FSD much smoother when coming to a stop or approaching slower traffic.
• Side Visibility With Approaching Traffic - While detection of laterally approaching traffic seems to have been improved in 10.8 it still remains a problem area for FSD Beta and requires further refinement.
• Navigation Around Roadkill - For the first time I noticed planner routed the car around roadkill on the right side of the road. This is the first time I've seen the car do something like this so that was for sure cool to see.
• Use Of Shared Bike / Turn Lanes When Turning - With FSD Beta 10.8 planner now properly uses shared bike + turn lanes (See example here) when turning right. This has been an issue that has existed in all of the FSD Beta 10.x builds so far so I'm really excited to see this one get fixed in 10.8.
• Passing Parked / Slow Traffic: Handling & maneuvering around slow / parking traffic is much improved with FSD Beta 10.8
• Partially Snow Covered Roads - Planner appears to be more confident with handling & positioning itself on partially snow covered roads compared to 10.6.1. While this is a noticeable improvement, more work still needs to be done.

Needs Work

• V11 UI - I have experienced several performance & stability issues with the new V11 UI that has required me to reboot the MCU several times (see here for examples). Overall, I appreciate what Tesla is trying to achieve with the new UI especially with enhancements like the full screen FSD visualizations. With that said, commonly used controls like seat heaters are buried behind additional menus that make the new UI more difficult to use while driving. Performance and stability of the new code is also problematic and needs some serious attention to match the quality of previous releases.
• Slower Left Turns - The car seems to accelerate much more slowly through left turns in FSD Beta 10.8.
• Odd Car Positioning Issues - I have noticed the car will awkwardly position itself to the right when coming to a stop at several intersections along the same stretch of road. What is awkward about this behavior is the car will normally proceed through the intersections and stay in the left-most lane while doing so. To avoid confusing surrounding traffic, I commonly disengage FSD when this happens and manually correct the car's position.
• Car Will Not Proceed On Green - At three (was two) particular intersections the car will not proceed on green even though it is clear to do so. I surmise this issue is map related however I have no way to confirm this. This behavior has been present throughout each of the FSD Beta 10.x releases.
• Sweeping Lines - When turning left at a busy intersection, the car should avoid using a sweeping line and instead take a more point & shoot approach. Aligning itself to either the painted inside curb or line would help make the car's intent much more predictable.
• Wide Unmarked Roads - The car still likes to position itself in the center of wider unmarked roads even with oncoming traffic. If cars are not parked on the shoulder of the direction we are traveling the car should bias itself more towards the curb vs dead center of the road.
• Auto High Beam Usage - While it isn't quite as annoying as previous builds auto high beams continues to engage in urban areas where high beams should never be used.
• Some 3-way & 4-way Stops Still A Problem - At several 3-way or 4-way stops near my house the car will always overly hesitate even when there are no cars present (and visibility is clear).
• Out of date maps - TESLA, PLEASE UPDATE THE NAVIGATION DATA!

00:00 - Intro
00:56 - FSD Does A Great Job w/ Left Turn Onto Busy Edina Industrial Blvd
01:45 - Issue - Planner Has Trouble Making Lane Choice Due To Road Conditions However Quickly Recovers
01:56 - FSD Makes A Confident Lane Change Even With Poor Visibility
02:09 - Issue - Excessive Hesitation Before Making Smooth Right Turn
02:27 - Issue - Smooth Right Turn However FSD Carries Too Much Corner Speed For Conditions
02:45 - General Comments About Current Handling Of Wintry Road Conditions (Throttle Inputs)
03:26 - FSD Easily Handling 3-way Stop Followed By Smooth Left Turn
04:10 - FSD Again Easily Handling 3-way Stop Followed By Perfect Right Turn
04:32 - Possible Improvement - Improved Handling Of Partially Snow Covered Side Streets
04:57 - Issue - Excessive Throttle Input Results In Minor Loss Of Grip
05:12 - Possible Improvement - Improved Handling Of & Maneuvering Around Slowing Vehicle
05:31 - Issue - Smooth Left Turn However FSD Carries Too Much Corner Speed For Conditions
05:56 - Possible Improvement - Excellent Positioning and Handling Of Partially Blind Right Turn Onto Busy Valley View Road
06:27 - Issue - FSD Decently Handles Roundabout However Further Behavior Improvements Are Needed
07:04 - FSD Confidently Handling & Proceeding Thru Empty 3-way Stop
07:43 - Possible Improvement - Planner Properly Uses Shorter Turn Lane w/ Dotted Line When Turning Right
08:39 - Issue - Micro-Braking For No Apparent Reason Before Another Smooth Left Turn
09:07 - FSD Doing An Awesome Job w/ Tight Right Turn And Handling Of Curvy Stretch Of Road
09:24 - Issue - Planner Has Trouble w/ Path Selection Due To Road Conditions However Quickly Recovers
09:49 - FSD Again Confidently Handling & Proceeding Thru Empty 3-way Stop
10:04 - Human-Like Handling Of Blind / Uphill Right Turn
10:26 - Perfect Handling Of Right Turn Onto Partially Snow Covered Side Street
10:42 - Car Doing An Excellent Job Passing Parked Cars
10:57 - FSD Confidently Handling & Proceeding Thru Empty 4-way Stop
11:12 - FSD Properly Detecting & Yielding To Accelerating Mail Truck
11:54 - FSD Doing A Decent Job w/ Difficult Left Turn Onto Busy Excelsior Blvd
12:42 - FSD Completing Another Solid Right Turn
13:08 - FSD Again Confidently Handling & Proceeding Thru Empty 4-way Stop
13:27 - Issue - Excessive Hesitation Before Making Another Smooth Right Turn
13:52 - Issue - Car Will Not Proceed On Green, Possibly Due To Encroaching Traffic On Left
14:12 - Feature Request - Add Prompt Briefly Describing Why Car Is Accelerating Or Decelerating
14:23 - Issue - Smooth Right Turn Into Parking Lot Followed By Incorrect Speed Limit

 

[dburkland]

Video #44 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Home to Parents’ House (Zero Disengagements!)

This video contains footage recorded on January 9th, 2022 of Autopilot + FSD Beta 10.8 driving me from my home (NE Minneapolis) to my parents’ house (Coon Rapids, MN). This route does not have many turns however it does have a few areas where FSD beta has struggled in the past. One of those areas is the intersection of 37th Ave NE & University Ave NE where there is a shared bike + vehicle turn lane (See example here) which the car has refused to use (when turning right) in each of the FSD Beta 10.x builds. In this video I confirm that this issue is for sure fixed in FSD Beta 10.8 and the car now properly uses the shared bike + vehicle turn lanes now when turning right! On top of this improvement I also witnessed one of the most confident left turns onto Main Street (Coon Rapids, MN) that I've seen so far with the FSD Beta 10.x builds. Thanks to the increased performance of FSD Beta 10.8, zero disengagement drives are now becoming more & more common which is exciting to see! With that said, one persistent issue that needs to be addressed in the near future is the handling of slippery conditions. At the beginning of this video you will notice the car goes into a slight 4-wheel drift following a left turn due to excessive throttle input. This sort of behavior could quickly be addressed if FSD was able to change its acceleration profile based on the outside ambient temperature. Hopefully we see an improvement in this area in future builds as winter isn't going anywhere anytime soon here in Minnesota . Like I have done with previous videos, I have updated my running tally of improvements and issues with FSD Beta 10.8 that you can find here:

Improvements Compared To 10.6.1

• Improved Confidence When Turning Onto Busy Roads - The car seems to be more confident in FSD Beta 10.8 when making left or right turns onto busy roads. While this is a slight improvement over 10.6.1, the car needs to be even more confident in this area in order to comfortably blend in with human drivers.
• Improved Car Positioning Before Particular Left Turn - With FSD Beta 10.8 the car no longer positions itself into the oncoming lane while waiting to turn left onto 37th Ave NE.
• Merging - Merging onto freeways was basically broken with FSD Beta 10.5 & 10.6 however it seems Tesla has applied a good amount of attention here and fixed a lot of the previous issues. With that said merging still has a long way to go and thus further work is required to get merging behavior closer to good human drivers.
• Jaywalking Pedestrians - The car is more confident when interacting with pedestrians (especially jaywalking pedestrians) and is less eager to jam on the brakes like it used to with previous builds.
• Better Path Selection On Tight Left Turns - This improvement was first noticed in 10.6.1 and still appears to be present in 10.8.
• Improved Handling Of Traffic Light Transitions - FSD does a noticeably better job of confidently stopping or proceeding through intersections when the traffic light is yellow turning red. With that said I still have had 1-2 occurences where the light went red while I was almost completely through an intersection and the car attempted to jam on the brakes.
• Noticeable Improvements w/ Several 3-way & 4-way Stops - This improvement was first noticed in 10.6.1 and still appears to be present in 10.8.
• Decision Making Re: Approaching Traffic Before Turning - The car seems a bit better at quickly reacting to oncoming cars before initiating a turn. Occasional jerkiness has been encountered so there is still room for further improvement.
• Abrupt Deceleration When Approaching Slower or Turning Traffic - After performing a few more drives with FSD Beta 10.8 I no longer think this is an issue. The added regen braking has overall made FSD much smoother when coming to a stop or approaching slower traffic.
• Side Visibility With Approaching Traffic - While detection of laterally approaching traffic seems to have been improved in 10.8 it still remains a problem area for FSD Beta and requires further refinement.
• Navigation Around Roadkill - For the first time I noticed planner routed the car around roadkill on the right side of the road. This is the first time I've seen the car do something like this so that was for sure cool to see.
• Use Of Shared Bike / Turn Lanes When Turning - With FSD Beta 10.8 planner now properly uses shared bike + turn lanes (See example here) when turning right. This has been an issue that has existed in all of the FSD Beta 10.x builds so far so I'm really excited to see this one get fixed in 10.8.
• Passing Parked / Slow Traffic: Handling & maneuvering around slow / parking traffic is much improved with FSD Beta 10.8
• Partially Snow Covered Roads - Planner appears to be more confident with handling & positioning itself on partially snow covered roads compared to 10.6.1. While this is a noticeable improvement, more work still needs to be done.

Needs Work

• V11 UI - I have experienced several performance & stability issues with the new V11 UI that has required me to reboot the MCU several times (see here for examples). Overall, I appreciate what Tesla is trying to achieve with the new UI especially with enhancements like the full screen FSD visualizations. With that said, commonly used controls like seat heaters are buried behind additional menus that make the new UI more difficult to use while driving. Performance and stability of the new code is also problematic and needs some serious attention to match the quality of previous releases.
• Excessive Throttle Input In Slippery Conditions - The car needs to be better at detecting slippery road conditions and decreasing its rate of acceleration. This issue results in numerous disengagements especially in winter conditions that could easily be avoided.
• Slower Left Turns - The car seems to accelerate much more slowly through left turns in FSD Beta 10.8.
• Odd Car Positioning Issues - I have noticed the car will awkwardly position itself to the right when coming to a stop at several intersections along the same stretch of road. What is awkward about this behavior is the car will normally proceed through the intersections and stay in the left-most lane while doing so. To avoid confusing surrounding traffic, I commonly disengage FSD when this happens and manually correct the car's position.
• Car Will Not Proceed On Green - At three (was two) particular intersections the car will not proceed on green even though it is clear to do so. I surmise this issue is map related however I have no way to confirm this. This behavior has been present throughout each of the FSD Beta 10.x releases.
• Sweeping Lines - When turning left at a busy intersection, the car should avoid using a sweeping line and instead take a more point & shoot approach. Aligning itself to either the painted inside curb or line would help make the car's intent much more predictable.
• Wide Unmarked Roads - The car still likes to position itself in the center of wider unmarked roads even with oncoming traffic. If cars are not parked on the shoulder of the direction we are traveling the car should bias itself more towards the curb vs dead center of the road.
• Auto High Beam Usage - While it isn't quite as annoying as previous builds auto high beams continues to engage in urban areas where high beams should never be used.
• Some 3-way & 4-way Stops Still A Problem - At several 3-way or 4-way stops near my house the car will always overly hesitate even when there are no cars present (and visibility is clear).
• Out of date maps - TESLA, PLEASE UPDATE THE NAVIGATION DATA!

00:00 - Intro
01:03 - Issue - FSD Recovers From Initial Planner Confusion After Engaging FSD From Driveway
01:30 - Persistent Issue - FSD Overly Hesitates At Empty 2-way Stop
01:53 - Success w/ Lowering FSD Speed To 0 MPH When Traversing Rough Train Tracks
02:28 - Confirmed Improvement - Better Positioning and Handling Of Left Turn Onto 37th Ave NE
02:39 - Issue - Excessive Throttle Input Results In Slide
03:03 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn-Only Lane
03:40 - Confident Rolling Stop At 4-way Stop
04:06 - Another Confident Rolling Stop At 4-way Stop
04:29 - Possible Improvement - Planner Properly Uses Shared Bike + Turn Lane When Turning Right
06:19 - Smooth Exit Of Freeway and Transition From NoAP to FSD
07:12 - Possible Improvement - Most Confident Left Turn Onto Main Street Yet w/ FSD Beta 10.8
07:53 - Near Perfect Left Turn
08:06 - Human-Like Lane Change On Salt Stained Road
08:20 - Another Near Perfect Left Turn
08:37 - Confident Final Right Turn
08:49 - Confirmed Improvement in FSD Beta 10.8 - Planner Properly Uses Shared Bike + Turn Lane When Turning Right

 

[dburkland]

Video #45 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Reservoir Blvd Test

This video contains footage recorded on the evening of January 16th, 2022 where I tested FSD Beta 10.8 at the difficult intersection of Reservoir Blvd and 37th Ave NE (Columbia Heights, MN). This intersection has been a struggle for each of the previous FSD Beta builds however based on tonight's testing I can confirm FSD Beta 10.8 includes a confirmed improvement here.

00:00 - Intro
01:23 - Confirmed Improvement - FSD Successfully Turns Left Onto 37th Ave NE From Reservoir Blvd
01:51 - Closing Comments

 

[power.saver]

Video #45 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.8 - Reservoir Blvd Test

This video contains footage recorded on the evening of January 16th, 2022 where I tested FSD Beta 10.8 at the difficult intersection of Reservoir Blvd and 37th Ave NE (Columbia Heights, MN). This intersection has been a struggle for each of the previous FSD Beta builds however based on tonight's testing I can confirm FSD Beta 10.8 includes a confirmed improvement here.

00:00 - Intro
01:23 - Confirmed Improvement - FSD Successfully Turns Left Onto 37th Ave NE From Reservoir Blvd
01:51 - Closing Comments

Thanks for trying that out again.

 

[dburkland]

Thanks for trying that out again.

No problem, it at least made the left turn this time albeit with some struggles

 

[dburkland]

Video #46 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.10.2 - NE Minneapolis Test Loop (Day)

This video contains footage recorded on February 20th, 2022 of FSD Beta 10.10.2 driving me around a test loop that I came up with in Northeast Minneapolis. I will be repeating this drive after each release with the goal of testing for improvements as well as regressions (daytime & nighttime). Like I have done with previous videos, I have updated my running tally of improvements and issues with FSD Beta 10.10.2 which you can find here:

Improvements Compared To 10.8 / 10.8.1

• FSD Incorrectly Uses Shoulder - When making right turns onto certain roads (See example here), FSD would previously turn into the shoulder and stay there resulting in a disengagement. Starting with FSD Beta 10.10.2, FSD will still make the right turn into the shoulder however it now quickly corrects itself and moves over to the proper lane.
• Turning Left Into Oncoming Lane - When making a left turn onto Selby Ave from Snelling Ave in St. Paul, MN (See here), FSD would previously attempt to turn into the oncoming lane resulting in a disengagement. Based on my recent testing with FSD Beta 10.10.2, this issue can now considered resolved as the car now turns into the correct lane. This issue initially cropped up in FSD Beta 10.6.x and remained in FSD Beta 10.8 & 10.8.1.
• Less Hesitation At Previously Problematic 2-way and 4-way Intersections - At certain intersections the car seems to hesitate less than it did in previous builds however I noticed this only to be the case in low light situations (previous behavior remains in daylight).
• Abrupt Deceleration When Approaching Slower or Turning Traffic - The car continues to get smoother in this area however more progress needs to be made in order to properly blend in with human drivers.
• Partially Snow Covered Roads - Planner continues to get more confident when handling & positioning itself on partially snow covered roads. With that said, further improvements in this area are still needed.

Remaining Issues

• V11 UI - I have experienced several performance & stability issues with the V11 UI that has required me to reboot the MCU several times (see here for examples). Overall, I appreciate what Tesla is trying to achieve with the new UI especially with enhancements like the full screen FSD visualizations. With that said, commonly used controls like seat heaters are buried behind additional menus that make the new UI more difficult to use while driving. Performance and stability of the code continues to be problematic and needs some serious attention to match the quality of previous releases.
• Side Visibility With Approaching Traffic - While detection of laterally approaching traffic has improved with FSD Beta 10.10.2, it still remains a problem area and requires further attention.
• Excessive Throttle Input In Slippery Conditions - The car needs to be better at detecting slippery road conditions and decreasing its rate of acceleration. This issue results in numerous disengagements especially in winter conditions that could easily be avoided.
• Slow Decision Making - Due to latency in the FSD software stack, FSD is too slow to react to oncoming traffic when making unprotected left turns. This sometimes results in the car being very choppy with brake and throttle inputs as it waits to make the left turn. In rare cases, this results in the car trying to turn in front of oncoming traffic which results in a disengagement. As Tesla continues to improve decision making latency, I wish they would first improve creep behavior and allow the car to slowly roll into the intersection until it is safe to make the left turn. Currently the car will repeatedly go from throttle to brake frustrating surrounding drivers.
• Car Will Not Proceed On Green - At 3 particular intersections the car will not proceed on green even though it is clear to do so. I surmise this issue is map related however I have no way to confirm this. This behavior has been present throughout each of the FSD Beta 10.x releases.
• Car Unnecessarily Moves To Right Before Initiating Left Turn - I have noticed FSD will move almost a half a car length to the right before initiating a left turn at several intersections, many of which are located on Johnson St NE (NE Minneapolis). Aligning itself to either the painted inside curb or line would help make the car's intent much more predictable.
• Wide Unmarked Roads - The car still likes to position itself in the center of wider unmarked roads even with oncoming traffic. If cars are not parked on the shoulder of the direction we are traveling the car should bias itself more towards the curb vs dead center of the road.
• Auto High Beam Usage - While it isn't quite as annoying as previous builds auto high beams continues to engage in urban areas where high beams should never be used.
• Some 3-way & 4-way Stops Still A Problem - At several 3-way or 4-way stops near my house the car will overly hesitate even when there are no cars present (and visibility is clear).
• Inability To Read Signs - FSD currently does not read common signs like "No Turn On Red" resulting in unnecessary disengagements.
• Flashing Yellow Traffic Lights - FSD continues to struggle with properly detecting flashing yellow traffic lights and almost always requires driver intervention in order to proceed.
• Out of date maps - Incorrect or stale navigation data results in many unnecessary and otherwise avoidable issues (incorrect speed limits on city streets, incorrect route selection, etc.) when using FSD Beta around the Twin Cities. I continue to report these issues to Tesla however they unfortunately continue to exist in FSD Beta 10.10.2.

00:00 - Intro
03:24 - Issue - Disengagements As FSD Struggles To Enter Fillmore St NE From Driveway
03:54 - Confidence Proceeding Thru 2-way Stop With Approaching Traffic From Left
04:13 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Incorrect Speed Limit For Local City Streets Results In Unnecessary Acceleration
04:44 - Persistent Issue - Excessive Decision Latency Before Left Turn Onto 37th Ave NE
05:12 - Persistent Mapping Issue - FSD Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn-Only Lane
05:35 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Planner Continues To Get Confused At Intersection Of Central & 37th Ave NE
06:25 - Time Efficient Complete Stop After Tesla Was Forced To Remove Rolling Stop Feature
07:02 - Disengagement - Driver Error
07:29 - Persistent Issue - FSD Continues To Stray Too Much Toward Center On Unmarked Road
08:27 - Regression w/ 10.10.2 - Excessive Hesitation At Particular 3-way Stop
09:15 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Planner Continues To Get Confused On This Particular Road
10:15 - Persistent Issue Since 10.6 - Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
10:58 - Persistent Issue Since 10.6 - Another Disengagement As Car Tends To Stray Too Much Towards Center
11:14 - Persistent Issue - Excessive Decision Latency Before Left Turn Onto 42nd Ave N
11:42 - Confident Left Turn After Approaching Traffic Traverses Intersection
12:25 - Possible Improvement - FSD Does An Excellent Job Creeping Forward While Waiting To Turn Left
12:49 - Issue - FSD Incorrectly Attempts To Use Bike Lane
13:12 - Issue - Planner Gets Confused At Intersection Of N Washington Ave & N Lowry Ave
13:40 - Disengagement - Driver Error
13:55 - Confident Handling Of Oncoming Traffic Before Making Left Turn
14:15 - Testing - Checking To See If Car Will Proceed On Green At Intersection Of Plymouth Ave N & 2nd St N
15:29 - Persistent Issue - Car Will Not Proceed On Green At Intersection Of Plymouth Ave N & 2nd St N
16:11 - Possible Improvement - Confident Left Turn Onto University Ave NE
16:41 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Car Incorrectly Attempts To Use Right Lane (Parking)
17:38 - Issue - Excessive Hesitation w/ Right Turn On Green
18:43 - FSD Doing A Great Job Proceeding Thru Busy Intersection Of Lowry Ave NE & Central Ave NE
19:17 - Issue - Choppy Creep Behavior While Yielding To Oncoming Traffic Before Left Turn
19:39 - Issue - Sketchy Line Selection During Left Turn
19:51 - Suggestions For Future Creep Behavior
20:22 - Regression w/ 10.10.2 - Disengagement As Car Incorrectly Uses Dead Space (Parking)
20:34 - Persistent Issue - Planner Positions Itself Too Far To The Right Before Making Left Turn
21:32 - Possible Improvement - Less Hesitation At Particular 4-way Stop
22:21 - FSD Confidently Handles Pedestrian While Making Smooth Right Turn
22:58 - Persistent Issue - Car Uses Too Much Of Road When Making Simple Left Turn
23:10 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Incorrect Speed Limit For City Streets
23:41 - Persistent Issue - FSD Overly Hesitates At Empty 3-way Stop
24:07 - Closing Comments About Tesla OS 2021.44.30.21 / FSD Beta 10.10.2

 

[EVNow]

@dburkland Since you have such detailed notes - do you have disengagement rates by release ?

 

[dburkland]

Video #47 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.10.2 - Home to Dairy Queen

This video contains footage recorded on the evening of February 27th, 2022 of FSD Beta 10.10.2 driving me from my home (NE Minneapolis) to Dairy Queen (St. Anthony, MN). Even though this is a relatively short drive we were able to recognize some improvements along the way as well as witness a flawless 180-degree turn! Like I have done with previous videos, I have updated my running tally of improvements and issues with FSD Beta 10.10.2 which you can find here:

Improvements Compared To 10.8 / 10.8.1

• FSD Incorrectly Uses Shoulder - When making right turns onto certain roads (See example here), FSD would previously turn into the shoulder and stay there resulting in a disengagement. Starting with FSD Beta 10.10.2, FSD will still make the right turn into the shoulder however it now quickly corrects itself and moves over to the proper lane.
• Turning Left Into Oncoming Lane - When making a left turn onto Selby Ave from Snelling Ave in St. Paul, MN (See here), FSD would previously attempt to turn into the oncoming lane resulting in a disengagement. Based on my recent testing with FSD Beta 10.10.2, this issue can now considered resolved as the car now turns into the correct lane. This issue initially cropped up in FSD Beta 10.6.x and remained in FSD Beta 10.8 & 10.8.1.
• Less Hesitation At Previously Problematic 2-way and 4-way Intersections - At certain intersections the car seems to hesitate less than it did in previous builds however I noticed this only to be the case in low light situations (previous behavior remains in daylight).
• Abrupt Deceleration When Approaching Slower or Turning Traffic - The car continues to get smoother in this area however more progress needs to be made in order to properly blend in with human drivers.
• Partially Snow Covered Roads - Planner continues to get more confident when handling & positioning itself on partially snow covered roads. With that said, further improvements in this area are still needed.

Remaining Issues

• V11 UI - I have experienced several performance & stability issues with the V11 UI that has required me to reboot the MCU several times (see here for examples). Overall, I appreciate what Tesla is trying to achieve with the new UI especially with enhancements like the full screen FSD visualizations. With that said, commonly used controls like seat heaters are buried behind additional menus that make the new UI more difficult to use while driving. Performance and stability of the code continues to be problematic and needs some serious attention to match the quality of previous releases.
• Sudden Braking on 2-lane Country Roads - FSD continues to struggle with 2-lane country roads specifically when encountering oncoming vehicles where it will suddenly hit the brakes.
• Side Visibility With Approaching Traffic - While detection of laterally approaching traffic has improved with FSD Beta 10.10.2, it still remains a problem area and requires further attention.
• Excessive Throttle Input In Slippery Conditions - The car needs to be better at detecting slippery road conditions and decreasing its rate of acceleration. This issue results in numerous disengagements especially in winter conditions that could easily be avoided.
• Slow Decision Making - Due to latency in the FSD software stack, FSD is too slow to react to oncoming traffic when making unprotected left turns. This sometimes results in the car being very choppy with brake and throttle inputs as it waits to make the left turn. In rare cases, this results in the car trying to turn in front of oncoming traffic which results in a disengagement. As Tesla continues to improve decision making latency, I wish they would first improve creep behavior and allow the car to slowly roll into the intersection until it is safe to make the left turn. Currently the car will repeatedly go from throttle to brake frustrating surrounding drivers.
• Car Will Not Proceed On Green - At 3 particular intersections the car will not proceed on green even though it is clear to do so. I surmise this issue is map related however I have no way to confirm this. This behavior has been present throughout each of the FSD Beta 10.x releases.
• Car Unnecessarily Moves To Right Before Initiating Left Turn - I have noticed FSD will move almost a half a car length to the right before initiating a left turn at several intersections, many of which are located on Johnson St NE (NE Minneapolis). Aligning itself to either the painted inside curb or line would help make the car's intent much more predictable.
• Wide Unmarked Roads - The car still likes to position itself in the center of wider unmarked roads even with oncoming traffic. If cars are not parked on the shoulder of the direction we are traveling the car should bias itself more towards the curb vs dead center of the road.
• Auto High Beam Usage - While it isn't quite as annoying as previous builds auto high beams continues to engage in urban areas where high beams should never be used.
• Some 3-way & 4-way Stops Still A Problem - At several 3-way or 4-way stops near my house the car will overly hesitate even when there are no cars present (and visibility is clear).
• Inability To Read Signs - FSD currently does not read common signs like "No Turn On Red" resulting in unnecessary disengagements.
• Flashing Yellow Traffic Lights - FSD continues to struggle with properly detecting flashing yellow traffic lights and almost always requires driver intervention in order to proceed.
• Out of date maps - Incorrect or stale navigation data results in many unnecessary and otherwise avoidable issues (incorrect speed limits on city streets, incorrect route selection, etc.) when using FSD Beta around the Twin Cities. I continue to report these issues to Tesla however they unfortunately continue to exist in FSD Beta 10.10.2.

00:00 - Intro
01:14 - More Success w/ Engaging FSD in Driveway
01:40 - Issue - FSD Overly Hestitating At Empty 2-way Stop Followed By Excessive Throttle Input
01:54 - Possible Improvement - FSD Confidently Procedes Through Previous Problematic 2-way Stop
02:18 - Persistent Issue - FSD Repeatedly Enables & Disables High Beams On Well-lit City Streets
02:39 - FSD Confidently Handles Right Turn Onto Johnson Street NE
03:03 - Issue - Jerky Wheel Movement & Unnecessary Brake Input
03:36 - Persistent Issue - Excessive Decision Latency Before Left Turn Onto St Anthony Pkwy
04:17 - Possible Improvement - FSD Now Confidently Proceeding Through Particular 4-way Stop
05:19 - Issue - Excessive Hestitation At Busy 4-way Stop
06:01 - FSD Doing A Great Job Immediately Getting Over To Right Lane After Crossing Intersection
06:37 - FSD Confidently Performs A Clean 180 Degree Turn
06:51 - Issue - Planner Gets Scared Of Snow Mountain
07:17 - Beginning Of Return Trip Home
07:35 - FSD Yields For Fast Approaching Traffic From Right Before Confidently Turning Onto Highway 88
08:47 - Issue - Unnecessary Brake Input When Merging Onto Silver Lake Road
10:33 - Issue - FSD Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn Lane
11:26 - Possible Improvement - FSD Perfectly Yields For Oncoming Traffic Before Proceeding w/ Left Turn On Flashing Yellow
12:38 - Persistent Issue - FSD Stops For Stop Sign That Doesn’t Apply To Us
13:52 - Issue - FSD Struggling w/ Line Visibility Due to Glare & Road Salt
14:21 - Persistent Issue - Excessive Decision Latency Before Left Turn Onto Fillmore St NE
14:46 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Tesla Please Fix Incorrect City Street Speed Limits

 

[EVNow]

Video #47 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.10.2 - Home to Dairy Queen

This video contains footage recorded on the evening of February 27th, 2022 of FSD Beta 10.10.2 driving me from my home (NE Minneapolis) to Dairy Queen (St. Anthony, MN). Even though this is a relatively short drive we were able to recognize some improvements along the way as well as witness a flawless 180-degree turn! Like I have done with previous videos, I have updated my running tally of improvements and issues with FSD Beta 10.10.2 which you can find here:

Improvements Compared To 10.8 / 10.8.1

• FSD Incorrectly Uses Shoulder - When making right turns onto certain roads (See example here), FSD would previously turn into the shoulder and stay there resulting in a disengagement. Starting with FSD Beta 10.10.2, FSD will still make the right turn into the shoulder however it now quickly corrects itself and moves over to the proper lane.
• Turning Left Into Oncoming Lane - When making a left turn onto Selby Ave from Snelling Ave in St. Paul, MN (See here), FSD would previously attempt to turn into the oncoming lane resulting in a disengagement. Based on my recent testing with FSD Beta 10.10.2, this issue can now considered resolved as the car now turns into the correct lane. This issue initially cropped up in FSD Beta 10.6.x and remained in FSD Beta 10.8 & 10.8.1.
• Less Hesitation At Previously Problematic 2-way and 4-way Intersections - At certain intersections the car seems to hesitate less than it did in previous builds however I noticed this only to be the case in low light situations (previous behavior remains in daylight).
• Abrupt Deceleration When Approaching Slower or Turning Traffic - The car continues to get smoother in this area however more progress needs to be made in order to properly blend in with human drivers.
• Partially Snow Covered Roads - Planner continues to get more confident when handling & positioning itself on partially snow covered roads. With that said, further improvements in this area are still needed.

Remaining Issues

• V11 UI - I have experienced several performance & stability issues with the V11 UI that has required me to reboot the MCU several times (see here for examples). Overall, I appreciate what Tesla is trying to achieve with the new UI especially with enhancements like the full screen FSD visualizations. With that said, commonly used controls like seat heaters are buried behind additional menus that make the new UI more difficult to use while driving. Performance and stability of the code continues to be problematic and needs some serious attention to match the quality of previous releases.
• Sudden Braking on 2-lane Country Roads - FSD continues to struggle with 2-lane country roads specifically when encountering oncoming vehicles where it will suddenly hit the brakes.
• Side Visibility With Approaching Traffic - While detection of laterally approaching traffic has improved with FSD Beta 10.10.2, it still remains a problem area and requires further attention.
• Excessive Throttle Input In Slippery Conditions - The car needs to be better at detecting slippery road conditions and decreasing its rate of acceleration. This issue results in numerous disengagements especially in winter conditions that could easily be avoided.
• Slow Decision Making - Due to latency in the FSD software stack, FSD is too slow to react to oncoming traffic when making unprotected left turns. This sometimes results in the car being very choppy with brake and throttle inputs as it waits to make the left turn. In rare cases, this results in the car trying to turn in front of oncoming traffic which results in a disengagement. As Tesla continues to improve decision making latency, I wish they would first improve creep behavior and allow the car to slowly roll into the intersection until it is safe to make the left turn. Currently the car will repeatedly go from throttle to brake frustrating surrounding drivers.
• Car Will Not Proceed On Green - At 3 particular intersections the car will not proceed on green even though it is clear to do so. I surmise this issue is map related however I have no way to confirm this. This behavior has been present throughout each of the FSD Beta 10.x releases.
• Car Unnecessarily Moves To Right Before Initiating Left Turn - I have noticed FSD will move almost a half a car length to the right before initiating a left turn at several intersections, many of which are located on Johnson St NE (NE Minneapolis). Aligning itself to either the painted inside curb or line would help make the car's intent much more predictable.
• Wide Unmarked Roads - The car still likes to position itself in the center of wider unmarked roads even with oncoming traffic. If cars are not parked on the shoulder of the direction we are traveling the car should bias itself more towards the curb vs dead center of the road.
• Auto High Beam Usage - While it isn't quite as annoying as previous builds auto high beams continues to engage in urban areas where high beams should never be used.
• Some 3-way & 4-way Stops Still A Problem - At several 3-way or 4-way stops near my house the car will overly hesitate even when there are no cars present (and visibility is clear).
• Inability To Read Signs - FSD currently does not read common signs like "No Turn On Red" resulting in unnecessary disengagements.
• Flashing Yellow Traffic Lights - FSD continues to struggle with properly detecting flashing yellow traffic lights and almost always requires driver intervention in order to proceed.
• Out of date maps - Incorrect or stale navigation data results in many unnecessary and otherwise avoidable issues (incorrect speed limits on city streets, incorrect route selection, etc.) when using FSD Beta around the Twin Cities. I continue to report these issues to Tesla however they unfortunately continue to exist in FSD Beta 10.10.2.

00:00 - Intro
01:14 - More Success w/ Engaging FSD in Driveway
01:40 - Issue - FSD Overly Hestitating At Empty 2-way Stop Followed By Excessive Throttle Input
01:54 - Possible Improvement - FSD Confidently Procedes Through Previous Problematic 2-way Stop
02:18 - Persistent Issue - FSD Repeatedly Enables & Disables High Beams On Well-lit City Streets
02:39 - FSD Confidently Handles Right Turn Onto Johnson Street NE
03:03 - Issue - Jerky Wheel Movement & Unnecessary Brake Input
03:36 - Persistent Issue - Excessive Decision Latency Before Left Turn Onto St Anthony Pkwy
04:17 - Possible Improvement - FSD Now Confidently Proceeding Through Particular 4-way Stop
05:19 - Issue - Excessive Hestitation At Busy 4-way Stop
06:01 - FSD Doing A Great Job Immediately Getting Over To Right Lane After Crossing Intersection
06:37 - FSD Confidently Performs A Clean 180 Degree Turn
06:51 - Issue - Planner Gets Scared Of Snow Mountain
07:17 - Beginning Of Return Trip Home
07:35 - FSD Yields For Fast Approaching Traffic From Right Before Confidently Turning Onto Highway 88
08:47 - Issue - Unnecessary Brake Input When Merging Onto Silver Lake Road
10:33 - Issue - FSD Incorrectly Attempts To Use Turn Lane
11:26 - Possible Improvement - FSD Perfectly Yields For Oncoming Traffic Before Proceeding w/ Left Turn On Flashing Yellow
12:38 - Persistent Issue - FSD Stops For Stop Sign That Doesn’t Apply To Us
13:52 - Issue - FSD Struggling w/ Line Visibility Due to Glare & Road Salt
14:21 - Persistent Issue - Excessive Decision Latency Before Left Turn Onto Fillmore St NE
14:46 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Tesla Please Fix Incorrect City Street Speed Limits

Not sure you saw my earlier post …

@dburkland Since you have such detailed notes - do you have disengagement rates by release ?

 

[dburkland]

Not sure you saw my earlier post …

Sadly I do not but I can see if I can put something together as time permits.

 

[dburkland]

Video #48 - Tesla - FSD Beta 10.10.2 - Home to Shakopee

This video contains footage recorded on the morning of March 1st, 2022 of AutoPilot + FSD Beta 10.10.2 driving me from my home (NE Minneapolis) to Shakopee, MN. I completed the ~35 minute drive with only a single disengagement which occurred at the beginning of the trip. While there is of course still room for improvement it is great to see AutoPilot + FSD Beta handling trips like this one with minimal input from the driver.

00:00 - Intro
00:36 - More Success w/ Engaging FSD in Driveway
01:13 - Issue - FSD Unexpectedly Stops Short Of Problematic 2-way Stop
01:31 - Persistent Mapping Issue - Tesla Please Fix Incorrect City Street Speed Limits
01:59 - Issue - Passing Train Results In Excessive Hesitation Before Right Turn Onto Johnson St NE
02:44 - FSD Confidently Navigates Around Road Construction Crew
03:03 - Disengagement - Planner Gets Confused w/ Road Construction Zone
04:09 - Possible Improvement - FSD Does Not Slow At Previously Problematic Intersection Of Johnson St NE & 23rd Ave NE
04:27 - Persistent Issue - Unnecessary Brake Input At Intersection Of Johnson St NE & 22nd Ave NE
05:00 - Issue - Handling Of On-ramps / Freeway Merging Needs Further Attention
06:17 - Issue - Unnecessary Brake Input From NoAP Due To Traffic Merging Into Adjacent Lane
08:29 - NoAP Confidently Exits US-169
09:33 - FSD Confidently Makes Left Turn Onto Mystic Lake Dr
10:12 - Issue - FSD Gets Too Close To Snowbank While Making Left Turn
10:52 - Issue - Unnecessary Use Of Turn Signal When Going Straight
11:09 - FSD Completes Confident Final Turn / Closing Thoughts

 

[EVNow]

Sadly I do not but I can see if I can put something together as time permits.

I completed the ~35 minute drive with only a single disengagement which occurred at the beginning of the trip.

You just need the miles driven and you will have the disengagement rate.