TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Minor accident, 20 percent fault?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by johnbr, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. johnbr

    johnbr Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Fountain Valley
    Last week I got into a minor accident when another driver proceeded to start making a uturn from the right lane of traffic while I occupied the left lane. For as long as I've been driving my Model S, I couldn't determine if we'd stop in time and as it turns out, I didn't, though I couldn't have been more than a few feet from coming to a complete stop.

    Couple of questions - my insurance (Progressive) determined fault to be 80% them, 20% me. I don't see where I was in anyway at fault and am looking into whether or not this is worth fighting. It will cause me to pay 20% of my ($1k) deductible. Can anyone with more knowledge with these types of situations give me some advice / recommendations on what if anything I should do about this?

    Another question - I have an older "classic" Model S and it has none of the newer safety features. To those who have experienced the emergency braking, would it have prevented this accident? I'm guessing that it could have reacted faster than I did when the car came into my lane, though probably a matter of some millseconds.

    I installed a dashcam awhile back and while I've pulled some fun/interesting videos of it, it was nice to see it come into play here and it certainly looks to me like I did nothing wrong while the other car was breaking at least 2 laws (stopping in the middle of the street and making an illegal uturn from the right lane). They did signal though I believed they were waiting for me to go by before doing whatever it was they were doing.

    Anyway I'd love to hear thoughts / opinions, here is a link to the accident video:

     
  2. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    Did the insurance company see the dashcam video?
     
  3. johnbr

    johnbr Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Fountain Valley
    I sent them the video almost immediately, once I told them I had a dash cam and had the accident recorded they were completely uninterested in any witnesses or any other evidence. I got the impression those insurance folks really like dashcams.
     
  4. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    Did you ask why you're 20% at fault? I would guess they looked at the dashcam and thought you should have enough time to stop.

    Personally, I'd find out and try to fight it. I wouldn't want to be held accountable for an accident like that.


    As a side note, two wrongs don't make a right. The fact that he was making an illegal u-turn doesn't automatically take liability off of you. Imagine someone making an illegal u-turn and I floor the Model S and T-bone them, I don't see the insurance company saying "o well, since he was breaking the law, you're off the hook" ;).
     
  5. siucity

    siucity Button Pusher

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    SF North Bay, CA
    They didn't give you a reason why they think you're 20% at fault? What was the speed limit there?
     
  6. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,890
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    Yes he was goong for an illegal u-turn but he did signal and you hit him from behind while he still hadn't crossed the yellow line. So probably don't contest the 20/80 blame split. You should turn off the speed display on your BlackVue.
     
  7. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,499
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    were you doing 47 when you hit them? Were you braking? It didn't look like you hit the brakes hard, looked like you just pulled off the long skinny pedal on the right and regened a little.

    I didn't hear tires locking up, or brake noises of any kind.
     
  8. siucity

    siucity Button Pusher

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    SF North Bay, CA
    Yes, if you floored it, and you're now above the speed limit, I can see that as being your fault too. However, if you kept at the speed limit, and someone cuts in front of you making an illegal U-turn, then I don't see where you're in the wrong.
     
  9. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    What if I don't exceed the speed limit? Or what if I don't hit the brakes and continue driving in a straight line, am I in the wrong then?

    The fact that the other driver did something illegal doesn't automatically make the first driver have 0% liability, that's all I'm saying.
     
  10. siucity

    siucity Button Pusher

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    SF North Bay, CA
    I think the fact that he was signalling makes no difference in determining fault. Unfortunately, a lot of people driving around here think they have the right to change lanes just because they turned on their signal.
     
  11. siucity

    siucity Button Pusher

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    SF North Bay, CA
    No you're still not in the wrong, if we're assuming (like the video) that the other car cuts in front of you giving you little room to react. But I do agree with your second statement.
     
  12. Camera-Cruiser

    Camera-Cruiser Fully Charged

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    I'd contest it. Insurance is basically saying that you rear end some one, at least 20% worth. I disagree, they may have slowed and signaled intent, but you have no obligation to know that they were not going to wait for you to go buy. They had zero right of way, while you had 100 %.
     
  13. Baja30

    Baja30 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Maple Grove, MN
    The key is to get the police to write the other party a ticket, then the insurance company will take that as the other party being 100% at fault.

    Does the other driver have Progressive also?
     
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    Except that the law requires you to be reasonably careful, otherwise it can be considered negligence.

    Anyways, this is way OT. So we'll have to disagree.
     
  15. halg

    halg Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Messages:
    124
    Location:
    Georgia
    from the video I can see that the other car turned the blinker on as soon as it appeared in the dashcam, I guess that's why you are 20% fault.
     
  16. Chaz

    Chaz Big Kahuna

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2016
    Messages:
    158
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Progressive has done this to us as well despite the police report saying the other driving was completely at fault. Why didn't the other driver's insurance cover the whole thing before your insurance got involved (unless they also had Progressive)? Did anyone get a ticket?

    Based on your video, it looks like the VW driver was finishing his/her merge from the far right lane so you shouldn't be expected to assume they were coming all the way over, let alone an illegal u-turn. You had the absolute right-of-way. But you appear to be doing 47 in a 40, so sending in the video might not have been a good idea. Sorry. Just my two cents.

    It's a bummer either way. Good luck.
     
  17. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,737
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    I'd fight it like mad. No way were you at all at fault there:

    They made an illegal U-Turn and also an unsafe lane change. I see people with turn signals on all the time...does that mean I need to stop in a lane of moving traffic in case they might change lanes in front of me? Of course not.

    Fight it. Fight it like crazy. Someone's trying to screw you.
     
  18. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,737
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    The Blackvue's speed display is sometimes off by a few mph, and certainly has a delay--it can't be used to indicate realtime speed.

    It's clear to me by the sound in the video (the "oh s**t" noise!) that the driver began evasive action as soon as he registered that a collision was imminent. Couldn't go left because of oncoming traffic (and that might not have helped in this case), so started braking. In retrospect, maybe he could have braked harder, but hindsight is 20/20. Clearly he slowed down quite a bit before the collision happened.

    Did I say you should fight it? Fight it. Take it to court if you need to.
     
  19. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    4,737
    Location:
    Smithfield, VA
    I should also add that the blinker doesn't tell you anything. Looking at the video, the other driver was merging left with the blinker on (from the lane that was going away), so I could easily see a driver assuming that the blinker was for his merge. (I would have assumed that). Plus, that driver was not established in his lane anyway.

    Did I mention fight it?
     
  20. Caligula

    Caligula Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Messages:
    600
    Location:
    San Diego
    Is there any downside to contesting this? No? Well then. ..
     

Share This Page