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Mismanaged - The Problem With Government-Funded EV Chargers (TMC Podcast Clip)

Here's a clip from TMC Podcast #13, where we discuss Biden's new policy to build $7.5 billion dollars' worth of EV chargers.

“The number is $7.5 billion dollars, and you’d think the industry would pay for most of it since they want us to buy their cars. But instead, you and I, the consumer, will take the hit.

Just take some of that profit you just made on all the oil, and roll it over into EVs.”


The full podcast video, if you're interested, is linked down below.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...mprove-tesla’s-service-tmc-podcast-13.269425/
 
Welcome to another round of podcasts of terrible arguments.

The auto industry doesn’t want to make EV.

The government wants the auto industry to make EVs.

So now, all these EVs that the government wants have to charge somewhere hence the reason the government is funding these EV chargers.
 
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I have no problem with this. Tens of billions of taxpayer dollars have been given to ISPs to do *nothing*... they just paid it out as executive bonuses. Would've rather had chargers built.

That said, these dollars won't go to Tesla, right? They'll just build more shoddy chargers like Electrify'Murica and such. Pooh.
 

SL77

MYP MSM 2022
Mar 21, 2022
13
5
Louisiana
Why would the oil companies roll profits into EV chargers? "Hey, lets help build out this infrastructure that will eventually doom our business." Of course, you can ask, but why would they volunteer to do this?

Ultimately, you would think the source of the energy itself should run with this. Start with the power companies since they actually distribute the source needed to charge these vehicles. Get them to hop on board to help standardize the industry. They are the ones who will benefit directly from the switch to EV. But we also need to look at building more power plants, including nuclear. Today's solar and wind technology will not be able to keep up with the energy demands of tomorrow, especially if we see 50-75% EVs on the road. We must be realistic.
 
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Welcome to another round of podcasts of terrible arguments.

The auto industry doesn’t want to make EV.

The government wants the auto industry to make EVs.

So now, all these EVs that the government wants have to charge somewhere hence the reason the government is funding these EV chargers.
I'm not saying that the government should get involved but car manufacturers definitely want to make EV's. The build and maintenance is much simpler.
 
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I'm not saying that the government should get involved but car manufacturers definitely want to make EV's. The build and maintenance is much simpler.
I disagree. Legacy auto manufacturers actually made a good deal of their revenue from repairs and aftermarket parts. Possibly most of it even. They try to get the upfront purchase price as low as possible, then make it back up on parts.
 
I disagree. Legacy auto manufacturers actually made a good deal of their revenue from repairs and aftermarket parts. Possibly most of it even. They try to get the upfront purchase price as low as possible, then make it back up on parts.
Point taken but if your model is to make money on fix and repair while your new competition comes out with cars that don't require maintenance you will have a limited future.

Not having moved ahead 20 years ago may have been a huge mistake on GM's part but lots of ideas came about decades before they were adopted by big auto. Batteries and technology has advanced since 20 years ago and the attitude of the driver has probably advanced even further.

I still contend that the auto manufacturers would have arrived on supplying EV's despite government incentives and restrictions on fuel economies.
 

RubberToe

Supporting the greater good
Jun 28, 2012
3,249
8,245
El Lay
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For railroads, there is a Federal Railroad Testing facility in Colorado. If you are a manufacturer, you take your equipment their to do interoperability testing with other equipment.
If we are putting gov money into charging, there should a a similar facility where charging and car makers come to prove their equipment works with other makes and get the bugs out. Right now it’s just a half ass effort which I guess is ok if you really don’t want evs anytime soon.
 
Why would the oil companies roll profits into EV chargers? "Hey, lets help build out this infrastructure that will eventually doom our business." Of course, you can ask, but why would they volunteer to do this?

Ultimately, you would think the source of the energy itself should run with this. Start with the power companies since they actually distribute the source needed to charge these vehicles. Get them to hop on board to help standardize the industry. They are the ones who will benefit directly from the switch to EV. But we also need to look at building more power plants, including nuclear. Today's solar and wind technology will not be able to keep up with the energy demands of tomorrow, especially if we see 50-75% EVs on the road. We must be realistic.
Please, reject the misconception that wind or solar cannot supply all the energy the USA needs. USING CURRENT TECHNOLOGY, AN AREA OF 150X150 MILES OF COLLECTED PHOTOVOLTAIC SOLAR ENERGY CAN SUPPLY IN 5 FULL-SUN EQUIVALENT HOURS THE ENTIRE USA ENERGY CONSUMPTION OF A DAY.
Yes, the energy needs to be stored to use during the night. But higher power transoceanic electric cables can redirect the energy from the part where the sun is shining to the parts where it is night time. This energy distribution would make sure that sun energy is being collected somewhere around the clock. Consequently, energy storage requirements would be reduced or totally eliminated.
 
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I think the hard sell is apartments. EV's make zero sense if you can't charge at home. And I bet more people rent then live in a home where they can charge. Or even a condo. Someone needs to help with charging infrastructure and not just superchargers no one wants to stop at those either.
No way would I own an EV if I couldn't charge at work or at home.
 
I think the hard sell is apartments. EV's make zero sense if you can't charge at home. And I bet more people rent then live in a home where they can charge. Or even a condo. Someone needs to help with charging infrastructure and not just superchargers no one wants to stop at those either.
No way would I own an EV if I couldn't charge at work or at home.

This is a solvable problem. We could require landlords to install L2 charging for each apartment by a given date (let's say 2035), and offer a tax credit for those that get it done by 2028.

Forget about major metropolitan areas (e.g. NYC) though. Public transportation FTW.
 

Earl

Member
Jan 22, 2014
567
767
USA
Is this really true? Do you have any references?
One can actually calculate it fairly easily (good task for your 6 kids). It does, of course, depend on assumptions such as over-production needed, efficiencies, solar insolation, etc.
I assume the basic inputs are about 1 KW/sq meter of solar radiation and that the USA consumes about 3.9 trillion KWH/year. Throwing in a few knock downs and plus-ups and I come up with about 100 km X 100 km needed with no over-production. 150 mi X 150 mi seems highly feasible.
 
One can actually calculate it fairly easily (good task for your 6 kids). It does, of course, depend on assumptions such as over-production needed, efficiencies, solar insolation, etc.
I assume the basic inputs are about 1 KW/sq meter of solar radiation and that the USA consumes about 3.9 trillion KWH/year. Throwing in a few knock downs and plus-ups and I come up with about 100 km X 100 km needed with no over-production. 150 mi X 150 mi seems highly feasible.
I'm surprised this isn't already being done then. Somewhere in Nevada or Arizona or something.
 

RandyS

Fan of Elon
Jul 8, 2012
805
1,062
San Diego
I have no problem with this. Tens of billions of taxpayer dollars have been given to ISPs to do *nothing*... they just paid it out as executive bonuses. Would've rather had chargers built.

That said, these dollars won't go to Tesla, right? They'll just build more shoddy chargers like Electrify'Murica and such. Pooh.
I actually think that this is one of the main reasons why Tesla is considering opening up charging stations to other cars in the US (so they can get givernment incentive funding that requires CCS connections)...Say what you want about Tesla, but they're smart like a fox when it comes to this stuff. Remember the Harris Ranch battery swapping station? Tesla got extra California clean air credits per car sold because the batteries were swappable. As soon as the rules were changed to reduce or eliminate the extra credits, that battery swapping station was cricketville... :)
 

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