Missing my ICE car. . .

[SammichLover]

FACTS: a properly maintained ICE with a functioning catalytic converter puts out minute amounts of CO. Coal-fired and natural gas plants which supply the juice to your "clean" Tesla (and mine!) are SUPPOSED to put out very little as well, but in fact there have been some very nice studies which show the estimates oft-quoted are way optimistic about actual running performance.

"Long tailpipe!!!" *drink*

Bad news, somebody has lied to you and it isn't who you think it is.

Your post is archetypal "self-righteous, misinformed, BS". "Some studies" = "[dated] nonsense spewed by hacks as part of a massive misinformation campaign", there's no real legitimate basis for this. Not even Prius' and their ilk are close to modern BEVs like the Model 3 (unless they happen to be a plug-in Prius that drives such short distances that it never uses its gasoline engine....and then why bother get a hybrid anyway, or you're in a tiny, typically low population, and quickly shrinking slice of the country that makes it kinda close).

 

[RayK]

E46 M3: Great ICE car. Analog? Not really. Does have hydraulic steering assist which is more analog (love same basic system on my 1M!), but has drive by wire, a gazillion chips, ABS, etc. You want analog, think 2002!

I'm assuming you're talking about an early 70's 2002tii, and not something from the year 2002.

 

[tjkenny15]

E46 M3: Great ICE car. Analog? Not really. Does have hydraulic steering assist which is more analog (love same basic system on my 1M!), but has drive by wire, a gazillion chips, ABS, etc. You want analog, think 2002!

Well... its all relative. Yes, a 2002 is way more analog than an e46 m3 - you got me there!

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

"Long tailpipe!!!" *drink*

Bad news, somebody has lied to you and it isn't who you think it is.

Your post is archetypal "self-righteous, misinformed, BS". "Some studies" = "[dated] nonsense spewed by hacks as part of a massive misinformation campaign", there's no real legitimate basis for this. Not even Prius' and their ilk are close to modern BEVs like the Model 3 (unless they happen to be a plug-in Prius that drives such short distances that it never uses its gasoline engine....and then why bother get a hybrid anyway, or you're in a tiny, typically low population, and quickly shrinking slice of the country that makes it kinda close).

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” Isaac Asimov

 

[Cargirl]

I'm sure I'm in a vast minority, and I love my 3P+, but I really miss my convertible V-8 stick shift Camaro. Against my better judgment, I sold it because wifey insisted I couldn't have both. I'm going through serious withdrawls of rowing through gears, dropping the top, the heated/ventilated seats, heads up display, android auto, magnetic ride control, rumble of the exhaust, etc. I still giggle when I floor the 3, but the senses aren't stimulated the same. I don't post this to anger anyone (this is a tough crowd and fiercely defensive of their cars), just venting I guess.

That seriously sucks, I love my v-8 Camaro, 6-speed convertible as much as I love my Model Y. My motto, never too many cars, only too few garages.

 

[Arctic_White]

Yeah, Miatas and Boxsters are cheap fixes, but neither have backseats, which is why camaros, mustangs and M240i's are on the shortlist. When my daughter moves to college, maybe then. . .

Having owned all three (Mustang, Camaro, 2-series), I will say that Camaro SS is the best bang for the buck. Get the 1LE package if you have the means. Clutch-uptake, Tremec transmission, cooled seats, Head-up display, CarPlay, etc. for $44K? Deal of a century.

This thread reminds me to always keep a manual, RWD, fun car as a secondary car. Tesla would be my main vehicle for daily driving.

Normal ICE cars are going to be legislated out and EVs are the future. Enjoy ICE while you can!

 

[user212_nr]

I'm largely indifferent to your narcissism, as long as you make a better choice in the end for whatever reason.

You are living the unselfish life, I suppose. I did not take the poster to be a narcissist.

 

[Atari2600]

Ventilated seats and HUD would be nice.

 

[neurocutie]

I'm sure I'm in a vast minority, and I love my 3P+, but I really miss my convertible V-8 stick shift Camaro. Against my better judgment, I sold it because wifey insisted I couldn't have both. I'm going through serious withdrawls of rowing through gears, dropping the top,.

yeah, kinda why I kept my 328 6MT... even though there was a question as to whether I should sell it...

 

[rallybob]

Words that have never been said.


Do you miss filling up with finite dinosaur fuel and then polluting the roads and air we all breathe with toxic carbon monoxide?


Because I don't.


And I only listen to music when I drive. It's a concert in my car all the time. Could care less for exhaust notes as they are the sound of pollution and try hards. I use to like exhausts but not no more. Can easily do without them. And I do!


Now I wouldn't mind a sound maker which emits futuristic whining sounds like the Taycan or the OG Fisker Karma or for the people that love their "exhaust notes" emit the sounds of a ferrari or lambo to troll

 

[holmgang]

Having owned all three (Mustang, Camaro, 2-series), I will say that Camaro SS is the best bang for the buck. Get the 1LE package if you have the means. Clutch-uptake, Tremec transmission, cooled seats, Head-up display, CarPlay, etc. for $44K? Deal of a century.

This thread reminds me to always keep a manual, RWD, fun car as a secondary car. Tesla would be my main vehicle for daily driving.

Normal ICE cars are going to be legislated out and EVs are the future. Enjoy ICE while you can!

dont love the bmw manual shifter (surprisingly, the zf automatic is great!) , but the N55/B58 motors of the BMW are gems.

 

[lolder]

Is there even one female poster in this thread? Most of the posts relate to testosterone and the fact that having a car and particularly a usually more expensive V8 used to be a chick magnet. That being said, I also miss:

The thrill of hand cranking.
Pre-oiling all the fittings
Filling the headlights with that sweet aroma lamp oil
Dressing up in that hazmat driving suit with cap and googles
Pouring the oil from the garage pan back into the engine.

 

[EmOne]

Is there even one female poster in this thread? Most of the posts relate to testosterone and the fact that having a car and particularly a usually more expensive V8 used to be a chick magnet. That being said, I also miss:

The thrill of hand cranking.
Pre-oiling all the fittings
Filling the headlights with that sweet aroma lamp oil
Dressing up in that hazmat driving suit with cap and googles
Pouring the oil from the garage pan back into the engine.

LOL. I miss cleaning out the stall and stepping in horse *sugar* when walking to work...

 

[kswca]

FACTS: a properly maintained ICE with a functioning catalytic converter puts out minute amounts of CO. Coal-fired and natural gas plants which supply the juice to your "clean" Tesla (and mine!) are SUPPOSED to put out very little as well, but in fact there have been some very nice studies which show the estimates oft-quoted are way optimistic about actual running performance. Is an "electric", served by NG or coal or remote petrol or nuke really cleaner?

This reminds me of when I bought a Prius a decade ago. The "FACTS" that people "presented" to me then included the fun one about how a Prius actually resulted in more CO₂ production over the life of the car than a Hummer. Of course it wasn't true, but if you repeat it often enough... I was also warned about having to replace the battery pack every two years at $10k (or more) cost. Haven't done that yet, after 10 years and 140k miles. Prius was the highest selling car in California at the time, and now the M3 is, but I have yet to meet a single person who has ever had to change their battery pack. Not a single Prius, Leaf, Tesla, etc. Of course this is another "FACTS" that persists today, even in this very discussion.

The true "FACTS" is that yes, properly maintained, etc ICE do emit minute amounts of CO in the best of possible scenarios. How many are "properly maintained"? What about emissions prior to having a warm engine (all sorts of ICE metrics ignore/neglect the effects incurred when warming the engine and catalytic converter)? Additionally, ICEs emit many more toxic and/or greenhouse gases, heavy metals, etc (SOₓ, NOₓ, etc). My MS emits none of these--not even water! (Always looks funny seeing those Toyota Mirais "peeing" on the highway--horse nostalgia?!)

And if you (somewhat rightly) want to include the cost of procuring (extraction, production, distribution, etc) the energy before its entry in to the vehicle, you'd have to do that for gasoline/diesel production as well, and I don't think you want to add all that up. Of course the comparison is always made to the dirtiest coal scenario for electricity production. Yes there are improvements to be made here as well, such as not using any. Here in northern California we don't get any electricity produced from coal, the only fossil fuel is natural gas, constituting only 15% of electricity produced. Of course nuclear, hydro, solar, etc produces exactly zero CO emissions, unless you count the ICEs of the workers driving to and from the plants.

 

[derekmw]

Is there even one female poster in this thread? Most of the posts relate to testosterone and the fact that having a car and particularly a usually more expensive V8 used to be a chick magnet. That being said, I also miss:

The thrill of hand cranking.
Pre-oiling all the fittings
Filling the headlights with that sweet aroma lamp oil
Dressing up in that hazmat driving suit with cap and googles
Pouring the oil from the garage pan back into the engine.

I don't know...I find it hard to believe the guys who mentioned missing their miata's owned them because they were chick magnets. lol

 

[kswca]

I don't know...I find it hard to believe the guys who mentioned missing their miata's owned them because they were chick magnets. lol

Depends on the kind of chick you are attracting. Personally I'd rather prefer the "chick" attracted to a Miata than a Camaro. I have neither, and my $90k MS attracts yet another kind...

Also, is it just me or does it appear more and more that classic muscle cars are driven by women?

 

[Dolemite]

Is there even one female poster in this thread? Most of the posts relate to testosterone and the fact that having a car and particularly a usually more expensive V8 used to be a chick magnet. That being said, I also miss:

The thrill of hand cranking.
Pre-oiling all the fittings
Filling the headlights with that sweet aroma lamp oil
Dressing up in that hazmat driving suit with cap and googles
Pouring the oil from the garage pan back into the engine.

1) Yes
2) No they don't - they center on the involvement/control that a more "analog" & sensory experience can deliver. That's why the McLaren F1 successor is slated to have a V12 hooked up to a manual transmission.

My entire life I've wanted a monster that could blitz anything else on the road. Now that I have it, the one major lesson my P3D has taught me is that raw power isn't everything... in fact, it might even be 2nd or 3rd on the list.

I've noticed that there's an awful lot of all-or-nothing thinking on these forums. When teleportation becomes a thing, are you going to look down on ancient "transportation appliances" and the time-consuming activity of getting from point A to point B? There's something to be said about flipping the pages of the book or watching a live performance. The journey is the reward... there's a lot of indistinct detail between a 0 and a 1.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

 

[Glamisduner]

Can't say I miss much of anything about ICE cars. I get what what OP is saying, but then I think about maintenance and wear to all those parts and nope, I wish I could buy all EVs now, but there is no way to replace most of them. I still have 5 other ICE vehicles, 2 ATV's a RzR, wifes supercharged and turbo charged volvo, and a diesel 3500. I can't buy manuals anymore because the wife refuses to drive them, and the RzR gives me all the exhaust notes I need wile driving it. I don't think I'd miss it in a street car, these days ICE's just sound like they are trying so hard, and it makes me think "aww that's cute" as I easily out accelerate them. No dirty engine bays, no emissions systems to deal with (OMG they can be terrible to work on those).

Truck takes 2 gallons of engine oil every change, a new oil filter, and then a new air filter and fuel filter every other change. Then I gotta worry about replacing the fuel pump every 60k miles, transmission fluid, transmission filter, the Front diff fluid and the rear diff fluid and the transfer case, then there's coolant flushes and brakes (probably never need brakes on the 3 unless I track it). Then there's getting it smoge checked, and if it puffs any black smoke (maybe from sitting) then I fail smog. I'm also not looking forward to replacing the diesel injectors for 1000's of dollars (that's what the smog guy said the last time). Has only 150k on it... Yea no tanks. Oh and it needs a new exhaust too (holes in it after the muffler). I'm sad that the cyber truck will likely not be a good replacement vehicle when it comes out, due to it's smaller size, bed shape and limited towing capability.

Been through the engines in both my 2 stroke ATV's a few times, both are currently broken (Banshe needs a new head, and someone put handfuls of sand in my 250R's transmission and that project has been on the bench for a couple years). Now those are fun ICE's they sound allot better than most cars and are easy to work on, no smog BS. Of course I'm not a fan of carbs, but at least they are pretty simple to deal with. The RzR xp1000, ahhh yes, more fun than any street car I have been in, but yea it's allot of work too. Already blew the engine up once due to emissions equipment (catalytic converter came lose plugged the exhaust, burned a hole through the exhaust and then the intake plenum)...

Model 3 maintenance, top off the washer fluid and rotate the tires, eventually brake fluid and shocks. Other things could break, not not much worse than the truck. Instead of playing constant maintenance catch up, I can keep the car clean, and worry about things like paint. Ahh yes paint, the other thing many ICE's have that is better than Tesla, now if OP said he missed the paint quality of ICE's vs Tesla I'd have to agree with that!

Yea, nope. All that noises seems obsolete. The only time I think ICE would be better is on a really long road trip, or when there is no way to charge (like while I'm boondocking).

 

[JBailey895]

Funny that a lot of people view the desire for a certain type of car as a "magnet" for sexual interest, and that only old people appreciate performance (or muscle) cars. I found that when I've owned "nicer" sports cars (Porsches, Corvettes, bmw's) women were less attracted than when I drove my truck. I don't really buy cars for anyone but me and my needs (yes, I'm selfish when I buy a non-utilitarian vehicle). I am in my early 50's (gasp), so I guess I can see younger people objecting to environmental waste, and not fully appreciating the visceral excitement of gears and noise and smell.
I thought I'd have it all with the 3P, and read numerous threads about never wanting to drive an ICE car again. That, plus wifey putting foot down and insisting I couldn't keep both, made me sell the Camaro to buy the 3. My instinct originally was to pay for solar first (did) pay off the Camaro (did), then buy an SR+ as my to/from car, and the Camaro was the weekend fun. I regret sticking to my plan, in hindsight it would have perfected my reality. I still play with the idea of trading someone with upgrade-itis for their SR+ and cash, and go V-8 hunting again, but the summer is the worst time to look for verts, and it would be hard to say goodbye to all that instant torque (but still. . . )

 

[1FASTROD]

I don't know...I find it hard to believe the guys who mentioned missing their miata's owned them because they were chick magnets. lol

Lol. True story, years ago my cousin (female) bought a bright purple first gen Miata and brought it over for me to see. My buddy and I saw it and started laughing at the ridiculous size, color and underwhelming power, but she insisted we drive it. So my buddy and I, both big, 6'2"+ guys shoe horned in and went for a drive around the block. 2 hours later and top down drive to the beach, we two burly guys rolled back in having fallen in love with the little machine.

I've learned not to judge a car by it's color.