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Mobile charging for Australia

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by Dborn, May 19, 2014.

  1. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    David RM and Dborn are in the process of investigating in depth what can be done to facilitate “mobile” charging. Tesla has indicated that only a low power wall connector will be supplied for Australia that is, one that can be set for any of the following 10, 20, 32, or 40 amps. This unit needs to be hard wired and wall mounted as the name indicates. It will NOT be easily switchable between the settings noted, and such change will need to be done by someone knowledgeable with electrical safety. This means that if you travel to a regular destination, you could purchase a second unit for your destination. However if you wish to travel more freely, this is obviously not an option. Since superchargers, if they eventuate for Australia, will be some way down the track and will only be on the major routes anyway, some form of mobile charging will be necessary. We are investigating possibilities with Chargepoint 30A chargers, 15A sites such as caravan parks, and 10A standard home sockets.

    To assist us, could we please have an indication of interest in the outcome, including the type of site you are interested in (charge station, caravan park, home)? It would help us greatly in terms of sourcing necessary equipment and in talking to third party providers. Some of the equipment which may be required will need bulk orders greater than 100 units from the manufacturer. Once we have some definitive answers we will post again on this thread to explain our technical thinking and obtain commitments if a bulk purchase is required. We will of course run our deliberations past Tesla for their approval as we would not want to risk voiding warranties etc. We will also be meeting with Chargepoint for their advice.
     
  2. timpoo

    timpoo Member

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    Hi Dborn are you talking about mobile chargers that you carry with you, like a spare battery? Or are you talking about Chargepoint/Supercharger equivalents?
     
  3. heosat

    heosat Member

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    I would be very interested in a UMC replacement for caravan parks and 10A wall sockets.
     
  4. Mark E

    Mark E Member

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    Lots of the charge point sites appear to be J1772, so an adapter for that would help out, but in reality we need a 10A & 15A UMC connector here, otherwise you could easily get stuck. This is a critical point for me, as the utility of the car would be dramatically compromised if I can only charge it at home or at full-on EV stations.

    Even a slow 10A socket will charge the car at just over 2Kw - making destination charging possible if you are staying for a few days somewhere, i.e. drive 400km and park for 24 hours. This should put about 40kWh back into the car. Driving around at a destination would also then be possible as you could put 20kWh or so overnight. At around 5km/kWh that even gives you about 50km in 10-11 hours on a standard power point.
     
  5. doctorwho

    doctorwho Member

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    By the way in a related but slightly OT post, does anyone know of a business in wangaratta willing to host a charging point (at no cost to them). It's related because we really need to have an idea of what resources are out there in the community, there are very few charge points but how many caravan parks, local businesses etc. are there that would be willing to work with us establishing a charging network?
     
  6. MangroveMike

    MangroveMike Member

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    10A definitely. At least I could visit the rels for Christmas and at least get home a few days later. It's the lowest common denominator and although will take a while to charge it will make the car more usable.
     
  7. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    We are looking at all possibilities including a mobile connector cable and appropriate adapters, for all available Australian power sources. So, not a spare battery but a UMC equivalent is in the mix. Initially we are looking at an adaptor from J1772 to Mennekes type 2 which would allow use of Chargepoint. It is very much a chicken and egg situation. If we can show chargepoint that the demand is there, they will add more charging stations. We do intend to publish here far more detailed technical stuff and hopefully pricing, but there is a way to go yet. We are just wanting expressions of interest at this stage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Write to chargepoint and ask them.
     
  8. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I've suggested making the J1772 to Type-2 adapter cable to Quick Charge Power and they liked the idea. @Dborn, if you want to coordinate, e-mail sales(at)quickchargepower.com
    You can see that they already have an extension cable, "JMS", that has a J1772 socket and a Tesla proprietary handle to plug into the car. In USA, this is mostly useful as an extension in case the normal parking space for a public charging station is ICEd. Model S comes with the compact J1772 adapter for normal use when you are within reach of the station's cable.
    Please note, this proposed cable is the opposite of this one that is designed to allow a J1772 vehicle like a Leaf or Volt to charge from a Type-2 station that does not have a captive cable.
     
  9. TesAus

    TesAus Member

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    I would agree that a standard 10A home socket cable is an absolute must - very slow but at least could be used in an emergency absolutely anywhere. After that it really comes down to what are most common as charging points in the "wild". I suspect that will also depend on where people hope to travel. Given the range of the model S I would have thought it better to focus more on what is most commonly available away from the city centres where there might be one option only? Does that mean it is more likely to be caravan park or similar if standard 10A cable is already available?
     
  10. DavidRM

    DavidRM Member

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    Thanks Miimura
    I am talking to a Chinese company at the moment about this and the Chinese adapters seem about half the cost of the JMS. The photo on the link you sent is very useful, showing that a socket can be used in this way. We will look up QCP as well.
     
  11. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    #11 miimura, May 19, 2014
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
    This is not a simple cable that can be thrown together. There is circuitry inside so that the proper signals are sent to the car and the charging station so that both release buttons, the one on the charging station's handle and the handle that plugs into the car, both make the right signal so the car stops charging and the EVSE opens its relay. It is very important that the cable indicates the correct state and passes the signals correctly. QuickChargePower has also produced a very durable J1772 inlet housing that is welded aluminum and has a good strain relief. Very high quality. You get what you pay for.

    By the way, the JLONG(TM) product ($300 USD) will probably be closer to the cost of the Type-2 version than the JMS ($450 USD), depending on the pricing for the Type-2 handle and how hard it is to get in USA. However, I'm just guessing. I have no connection to QCP.
     
  12. DavidRM

    DavidRM Member

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    Mark E I agree fully and I am investigating a concept which uses a Mennekes type 2 plug attached to a 15A Australian plug, which plugs into either a 15A RCD breaker (used in construction sites) for places that have a 15A socket, or a 10A RCD. Both types of breaker should be waterproof. The 15A RCD has its own 15A plug to plug into a 15A wall socket and the 10A has a standard 10A outlet plug. Extension cord would be 10 or 15A as required. The breakers are needed to protect the local supply from excessive draw. But we would like to use 10A and 15A settings on the car for this adapter. As I understand it, you can set the charging current from the car touchscreen in 1A increments, and if you popped the breaker you just would turn it down a little. If somebody has a car and disagrees, please advise us.
     
  13. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    I am investigating a Mennekes EVSE cable, which would be a full on UMC. It will obviously need Australian plugs moulded on, but, as I say, we will elaborate more fully once we actually have something concrete to communicate. However, suffice it to say, there are safe and approved means to plug a 15 amp plug into a 10amp socket so that the supply side is protected. We do intend that whatever solution we come up with will not require technical knowledge.
     
  14. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    From experience here in the US, 10A charging is very useable for destination charging.

    One option to explore is to see if you can buy a European Tesla UMC and then just make adapters for whatever plug it ends with. The European UMC is capable of around 40A and the car end ends with a Mennekes plug.
     
  15. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    The one company here proving public charging solutions has J1772. So, we are looking at a simple conversion cable to the Mennekes type 2 socket that we understand our cars will be delivered with.
     
  16. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    #16 meloccom, May 19, 2014
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
    I talked to Stone about a J1772 to Mennekes converter and he seemed confident that Tesla will make one in a similar way they have the J1772 to Tesla adapter in the USA, he's just not sure when.
    I would concentrate on the Mennekes UMC with 10 and 15 Amp plugs, and would put my hand up for one of those.
    P.S you would only need a 15 Amp plug plus an Amphibian
     
  17. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    Yes, i know about this one. Good if out in the weather, but expensive. There is another, non weather proof alternative that does the same. We are slowly getting there. Have talked to Mennekes Australia. Like with Tesla, patience please.
     
  18. DavidRM

    DavidRM Member

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    If you want 15 Amps and it is available, like at a caravan park, then the Ampfibian (that's what they call it) will only pass 10 Amps before tripping, and to same charging time you will really prefer something like the ARLEC at Bunnings, used for construction sites.
     
  19. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    Obviously, Tesla making the adapter in a timely manner is the best possible outcome for the problem of using J1772 stations in Australia.

    Also, after thinking over the problem, I may have overstated the difficulty of making this adapter. I initially thought it would be almost exactly the same as the JLONG made by QuickChargePower. However, if the Type-2 handle cannot be removed from the car until the car stops charging because of the solenoid lock on the car, the problem is much simpler. The JLONG is more complicated because there is nothing to keep a person from pulling the trigger and yanking the J1772 connector out of the vehicle inlet.
     
  20. Dborn

    Dborn Confirmed

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    I have had a technical response from Tesla. Please see my post in the other thread.
    I now ask whether it is desired that we pursue the matter. We may be able to get Mennekes to provide 15 amps. ( convert able to 10 amps with extra equipment).
     

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