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Mobile charging for Australia

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
I have had a technical response from Tesla. Please see my post in the other thread.
I now ask whether it is desired that we pursue the matter. We may be able to get Mennekes to provide 15 amps. ( convert able to 10 amps with extra equipment).

I will soon need a J1772 30A adapter during some construction at my house when I will not be able to access the house system. I cannot wait until 2015 or whenever. I have been talking to a Chinese company and have ordered one example which we could test with Chargepoint techs first if they agree, then with a Tesla car, either Stone's demonstrator or my own. If it proves successful, then a price for a bulk order can be arranged by Tesla owners. I have not heard back from QuickChargePower but if someone else wants to assist, they could purchase a QCP version and we could compare performance and cost. Both adapters would be prototypes, with all that that entails. Mine is costing about A$250 and will include 1m of 32A cable, single phase. The J1772 charges are 30A.

If Dborn can get Mennekes for the 15A (caravan park,home) market, fine, but if not, the Chinese are another option.


 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
Dborn and I would like to update everyone on our research into connectors. To summarise, we have available in in Australia:


  • 240V 10A single phase domestic sockets
  • 240V 15A single phase caravan park and domestic/commercial sockets
  • 240V 3 phase capability in some homes and businesses
  • A Chargepoint charger system with 80+ J1772 30A chargers distributed mostly around the cities but also in country Victoria

In our discussions with Tesla it appears they will offer


  • A single phase wall-type ESVE suitable for up to 40A with each car in 2014
  • A 10A mobile connector some time in 2015
  • A high power three phase wall-type ESVE some time in 2015 for cars equipped with twin chargers (mine is)

Initiative 1

There has been no mention of an offer of an adapter for the 80+ Chargepoint stations out there.


I located a Chinese manufacturer (Zhangjiagang YouCheng Technology & Engine Co., Ltd)for a Mennekes Type 2 (used to connect to the Tesla inlet) to a shuttered J1772 socket (used to connect to Chargepoint stations) and they are supplying me with a prototype for about $250 Australian. This will allow me to use the J1772 Cargepoint chargers.

I intend to test this when it arrives and when there is a car available to plug into. My sig should arrive very late in July. I expect it will be cheaper to buy the adapter in quantity in a bulk order if the thread wants to arrange one. As yet there is no delivery date but the Chinese companies are usually pretty quick.

Initiative 2

Dborn has located a manufacturer Clipper Creek in the US.

http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/ecs-international-plug-connected/

willing to manufacture a adapter J1772 to 15 A Australia plug which could be used in Caravan parks and some homes. This could be plugged into the Chinese J1772 adapter above once the latter has been tested. In the words of the company:

Clipper Creek also will manufacture

ECS-20
Supply Power - 230 V, 20A dedicated circuit breaker (or 15A continuous use circuit breaker)
Charging Amperage - 15A
Vehicle Connector - SAE-J1772
Supply power connection - Plug-in, AS 3112 (15A) plug
Charging cable length - 25 feet
Warranty - 3 years
Price - $549


Shipping to Australia typically costs about $68
The ECS-20 would be a custom built product, so it would take about two weeks to ship the station out after it is ordered.
You can order the ECS-20 through our online store at this link - http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/ecs-international-plug-connected/http://www.clippercreek.com/store/product/ecs-international-plug-connected/
The $549 price is in USD and would be about $600 at the current exchange rate. So by putting the cables in series you have a solution for either 15A or J1772 sites.


Dborn also asked Clipper Creek whether an adapter was available directly from the Mennekes Type 2 Tesla car inlet to a 15A plug. The answer was:


Thanks for the information, we can supply an ECS-20 with the Australian 15A plug and the Mennekes type 2 connector, unfortunately the price for that model is a bit higher. We sell the ECS-20 stations with the type 2 connector for $795. We have to source the type 2 connectors from Europe and we purchase/sell them in much smaller volumes, so the price is higher.

The one difference with the type 2 connector ECS (aside from the connector) is that the charging cable is 20 feet vs the 25 feet we offer with the type 1 (J1772 connector).

If you would like to order one of those you can, it would just have to be over the phone, or you can complete the attached customer set up form and return it to me.

Will Barrett
Inside Sales Manager
ClipperCreek Inc.
Phone 530-887-1674 ex.303
Fax 530-887-8527


Conclusion

Thus, if you are in a hurry for a mobile ESVE equipped with a 15 A Australian plug, you can order a 15A mobile ESVE for clipper creek immediately for approximately A$864 but it will not have J1772 connection capability.

The other solution of two adapters connectable in series will provide a more complete J1772 + 15A capability at somewhere between $750 and $850 dollars. For those who can wait I will inform you when our testing has been done but I do not imagine any final testing to be reported back to this thread until August.

In my own case I will be buying the two adapters in series but won’t order the Clipper Creek component until we definitely know that the Chinese adapter works. I am getting my Sig about probably end July, so I would estimate my own increasing charge possibilities as

Car to J1772 August
15A via J1772 September
10A mobile (Tesla) 2015
3 Phase home (Tesla) 2015
Supercharger (Tesla) after 2015

Dborn may have further comments. Good driving!
 

Dborn

Confirmed
Aug 26, 2011
2,715
357
Sydney, Australia
We have not had a definitive answer to whether Tesla will provide a J1772 to Mennekes type 2 adaptor exactly as they currently do in the USA, except that it is not Mennekes but Tesla proprietary connector there. If they do, and the price is the same as the one in the States, then my suggestion would be to purchase the ClipperCreek at 15amps and J1772, and to connect to the car with the Tesla supplied adaptor. Purchase a caravan adaptor which changes 15amp to 10amp, either Ampfibian brand ( Cart | Ampfibian) at $269 (waterproof) or this one from Jaycar at $80. Portable RCD with 15A to 10A Mains Plug Conversion - Jaycar Electronics . Caravan stores are charging $89 for this unit (Electus brand). These are both legal and safe.
This way, you can connect to 10, 15, amps using the one unit, and you can connect a second electric vehicle such as a Leaf, which has a J1772 inlet on the car, all with the same equipment. (I believe the Volt and Mitsubishi are also J1772 inlets, but i am not certain).
I have a question in to Tesla regarding the adaptor, and will post when i receive a reply. Meantime, the alternative would be DavidRM's solution with the Chinese adaptor cable allowing the Clipper Creek to attach to the car.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,104
5,704
Los Altos, CA
If you are willing to accept Clipper Creek J1772 portable charger that must be used with a Type-2 adapter, then you should find out the specification for the charge cord that Nissan includes with the Leaf in Australia. That may be easier to purchase locally until Tesla releases their portable unit. Same for Holden Volt and Mitsubihi i, but all of these are pretty much guaranteed to be limited to 10A or less.
 

salamagd

Member
Dec 7, 2013
193
5
New York
Same for Holden Volt and Mitsubihi i, but all of these are pretty much guaranteed to be limited to 10A or less.

Agreed, I was using a Clipper Creek 10A mobile charger with an i-MiEV temporarily a few years back, I'm not sure it's really worth the extra $700 to get another 5A on top of that, it's still going to be a butt-achingly slow charge.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,104
5,704
Los Altos, CA
Agreed, I was using a Clipper Creek 10A mobile charger with an i-MiEV temporarily a few years back, I'm not sure it's really worth the extra $700 to get another 5A on top of that, it's still going to be a butt-achingly slow charge.
Well, 15A is 50% faster than 10A, so it definitely has value. Also, 240VAC 10A is 2.4kW. In USA, the "trickle chargers" provided with the cars here are 120VAC 12A, which is only 1.44kW! THAT is butt-achingly slow. My RAV4 EV is quoted at 44hrs from turtle to Full Standard Charge on the provided cable.
 
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moollar

Member
Jun 1, 2013
172
0
Sydney, Australia
Perhaps it might be a good idea to find out about the Mitsubishi charger used for the Outlander PHEV. I'm pretty sure that it's 15 amps.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/uploads/pdf/phev-home-charging-2.pdf

If you use the Chinese J1772 to Mennekes type 2 adapter that David RM discussed, it might be a good solution as well, if Mitsubishi will let you buy their charger. You could even add in the Ampfibian or Jaycar boxes that Dborn mentioned to plug it into a 10A plug.
 

salamagd

Member
Dec 7, 2013
193
5
New York
Just to dig this up again, I'm getting worried about the prospect of no mobile charger until 2015, particularly as I'm planning on getting the S60 - the prospect of getting just far enough away to not be able to make it back home is concerning! I really only need 10A when out and about, as that's the best I could hope to find as an overnight/emergency charge - are there any 10A cables already in use in Europe? What's to stop me from getting one of them and a plug adaptor for our wall sockets to suit?
 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
This would work and there are mobile cables for the Zoe and the i3 but they seem to come tied with the car and are thin on the ground. Waiting for the promised Tesla mobile cable would be by far the best and most versatile option if you can avoid getting into perilous charging dramas in the meantime - the S60 I believe will be slow to show anyway if the experience overseas is repeated so there may be less wait between car and cable. If the Type 2 to J1772 cable I have ordered off the plan works, then the Outlander cable might be also a possibility. At this precise moment, there seems to be nothing on the shelf. Tesla will allow me to order a second wall connector for our weekender, which eases my own situation quite a lot, so if you have a weekender or a relative at some distance, you might think about that.

Just to dig this up again, I'm getting worried about the prospect of no mobile charger until 2015, particularly as I'm planning on getting the S60 - the prospect of getting just far enough away to not be able to make it back home is concerning! I really only need 10A when out and about, as that's the best I could hope to find as an overnight/emergency charge - are there any 10A cables already in use in Europe? What's to stop me from getting one of them and a plug adaptor for our wall sockets to suit?
 

timpoo

Member
Mar 30, 2014
844
50
Melbourne, Australia
Hi David

Just on another note - I'm sure you have a lot of experience dealing with Chinese manufacturers, and that's how you've located a supplier. But just in case you don't, I would be very very very careful. I deal with them on a daily basis, need to make sure they are reputable or you'll be wasting money.

Have the factory told you who they supply to currently?
 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
Thanks Timpoo, they are a gold supplier and their company profile is at Production Capacity - Zhangjiagang Uchen Technology Engine Co., Ltd.
They have a lot of EV products, see Alibaba Manufacturer Directory - Suppliers, Manufacturers, Exporters Importers but none of the connectors was the right one, some seemed similar but were the opposite gender to what we need. This is because the market was for J1772 cars trying to use Type2 chargers in Europe.

I have had quite a bit of success with Chinese LED suppliers on Alibaba. Often half or a third the price, same factories that produce for the big names. Particularly good when trying to find the most advanced technology. We have two houses fully outfitted with warm white LEDs. In one case I replaced 18 of the old halogen 40W down lights with 7 W LEDs with dimming down to about 1W. But you need an up to date electrician to get it right. The difference in just those down lights was about 600W, but there were many more kinds of lights replaced as well. Almost zero bulbs have blown. I think I had one large LED bulb blow soon after installation. In general, lighting, home office, hi-if receiver/entertainement, and the standby usage for reverse cycle have been big areas of reduction. For the last three, you can turn them off at the wall. Gotta offset that Tesla usage somehow.
 

timpoo

Member
Mar 30, 2014
844
50
Melbourne, Australia
Thanks Timpoo, they are a gold supplier and their company profile is at Production Capacity - Zhangjiagang Uchen Technology Engine Co., Ltd.
They have a lot of EV products, see Alibaba Manufacturer Directory - Suppliers, Manufacturers, Exporters Importers but none of the connectors was the right one, some seemed similar but were the opposite gender to what we need. This is because the market was for J1772 cars trying to use Type2 chargers in Europe.

I have had quite a bit of success with Chinese LED suppliers on Alibaba. Often half or a third the price, same factories that produce for the big names. Particularly good when trying to find the most advanced technology. We have two houses fully outfitted with warm white LEDs. In one case I replaced 18 of the old halogen 40W down lights with 7 W LEDs with dimming down to about 1W. But you need an up to date electrician to get it right. The difference in just those down lights was about 600W, but there were many more kinds of lights replaced as well. Almost zero bulbs have blown. I think I had one large LED bulb blow soon after installation. In general, lighting, home office, hi-if receiver/entertainement, and the standby usage for reverse cycle have been big areas of reduction. For the last three, you can turn them off at the wall. Gotta offset that Tesla usage somehow.

OK great - I just didn't want you to get ripped off. Alibaba is a great resource but there are quite a few misleading profiles and you can pay to get Verified, and the only requirement for being Gold is to have been active for a certain number of years. Nevertheless - these guys look legit.
 

Sluggabed

Member
May 3, 2014
132
67
Australia
I've just spoken with a colleague from work who in a former life was an Electrician. My eyes lit up and I went into my praise of the Model S but mainly questioning the installation of the HPWC and the 80amp/3 phase setup. He was surprised at the draw of the wall unit and stated it may require considerable cost and also the possibility of prior approval from you electricity supplier, especially if these things (EVs) start to become main stream (ie numerous cars in a localised area). So the question is, has anyone spoken to a practicing Electrician and or electricity supplier for the setup of the 100amp circuit or 3 phase installation?
 

Johnwill

Member
May 25, 2014
74
1
Auckland, New Zealand
I've just spoken with a colleague from work who in a former life was an Electrician. My eyes lit up and I went into my praise of the Model S but mainly questioning the installation of the HPWC and the 80amp/3 phase setup. He was surprised at the draw of the wall unit and stated it may require considerable cost and also the possibility of prior approval from you electricity supplier, especially if these things (EVs) start to become main stream (ie numerous cars in a localised area). So the question is, has anyone spoken to a practicing Electrician and or electricity supplier for the setup of the 100amp circuit or 3 phase installation?

The only information I have found on the HPWC is related to the US unit. I looks to be just a fused switch with some smarts to talk to the car. It can be supplied from two phases of a US 3-Phase supply, i.e. 230V.
I doubt it would survive connection to an Aus or NZ 3-phase supply, i.e. 400V. It will however work on our single phase, i.e. 1-Phase + Neutral, that will provide the same voltage potential of 230V. You can limit the current drawn by setting dip switches that give a range of 40 to 100 amps in increments of 10 amps.

The information on the Tesla Australia website is that "Both 80 amp single phase and 32 amp three phase connectors are under development and will be available in early 2015." By this I assume that you won't be able to connect with our 3-Phase (400V potential) until then. If there is a currently available Tesla charging unit (other than a Supercharger) that connects to 400V I'd welcome any information about it.
 
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Mark E

Member
Jun 27, 2012
860
176
Sydney NSW
So the question is, has anyone spoken to a practicing Electrician and or electricity supplier for the setup of the 100amp circuit or 3 phase installation?

Yes, and I have a level 2 sparky coming to my house tomorrow. The 80A isn't really sensible or practical here and our HPWC will be 3 phase. This is 20kW, so don't get concerned with the US. 80A single phase requires quite a thick cable, and most single phase houses have less than 100A wiring for everything.

In reality it's unlikely that you'd need more than 32A at home anyway - that is a full charge in 12 hours....
I'm getting his advice on the best way to wire up the house and if I need 3 phase, how much it will cost for installation. Each house will be a bit different, but there is no additional service charge for 3 phase vs single once installed.

Additionally I understand that its possible to use controlled load (off peak) for hard wired devices, just not ones with a plug, so the charger should also qualify. This would be handy for those - like me- who don't want to move to time of day tarriffs but want to charge overnight.

I'll post what I learn.
 

MangroveMike

Member
Apr 22, 2014
353
36
Newcastle, Australia
Yes, and I have a level 2 sparky coming to my house tomorrow. The 80A isn't really sensible or practical here and our HPWC will be 3 phase. This is 20kW, so don't get concerned with the US. 80A single phase requires quite a thick cable, and most single phase houses have less than 100A wiring for everything.

In reality it's unlikely that you'd need more than 32A at home anyway - that is a full charge in 12 hours....
I'm getting his advice on the best way to wire up the house and if I need 3 phase, how much it will cost for installation. Each house will be a bit different, but there is no additional service charge for 3 phase vs single once installed.

Additionally I understand that its possible to use controlled load (off peak) for hard wired devices, just not ones with a plug, so the charger should also qualify. This would be handy for those - like me- who don't want to move to time of day tarriffs but want to charge overnight.

I'll post what I learn.
Thanks Mark, your update will be quite valuable. There is scant info from Tesla as to what we need/should do - all the info seems to come from the good folk of this forum.
 

DavidRM

Member
Dec 28, 2012
104
44
Sydney
Thanks Mark, your update will be quite valuable. There is scant info from Tesla as to what we need/should do - all the info seems to come from the good folk of this forum.

Mangrove, I have had three phase 32A just installed for about $6000 because I needed it under regulations for a NSW solar array more than 5kW, but if it were just the car alone, I would have saved my money and stuck with the single phase dip switched back to 32A. It's best to charge between 20% and 80% most of the time for battery lifetime, but in practice, for 15000 km annually you need on average just 41 km a day. If careful drivers are getting say 410km a full charge, you are talking roughly 10% of a full charge a day, maybe 8.5 kWh. That should take maybe 70 minutes at 32A (7.4 - 7.7 kW), more if you like to smoke (zap?) the ICEs every day. I imagine I will charge once every 3-4 days to minimise plugging in.
 

salamagd

Member
Dec 7, 2013
193
5
New York
I imagine I will charge once every 3-4 days to minimise plugging in.

Interesting question, disregarding the slight inconvenience of having to plug and unplug when parking at home, I wonder what's better for the battery life? More frequent charges over a smaller change in charge level, or less frequent, bigger top-ups?
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,104
5,704
Los Altos, CA
The only information I have found on the HPWC is related to the US unit. I looks to be just a fused switch with some smarts to talk to the car. It can be supplied from two phases of a US 3-Phase supply, i.e. 230V.
I doubt it would survive connection to an Aus or NZ 3-phase supply, i.e. 400V. It will however work on our single phase, i.e. 1-Phase + Neutral, that will provide the same voltage potential of 230V. You can limit the current drawn by setting dip switches that give a range of 40 to 100 amps in increments of 10 amps.

The information on the Tesla Australia website is that "Both 80 amp single phase and 32 amp three phase connectors are under development and will be available in early 2015." By this I assume that you won't be able to connect with our 3-Phase (400V potential) until then. If there is a currently available Tesla charging unit (other than a Supercharger) that connects to 400V I'd welcome any information about it.
All EV charging stations are nothing more than a power relay and a simple micro-controller. It senses when the vehicle is present, signals how much current the car is allowed to draw and when everything is clear, closes the relay to pass the AC power to the car.

Tesla does not yet have any 3-phase residential equipment available anywhere in the world. EU customers currently have to use 3rd party "wallbox" if they want their own 3-phase charging station installed. I'm assuming that Australia will get the same Tesla (not High Power) Wall Connector as Hong Kong and China. That manual has been posted on TMC and it is configurable for both Single Phase (L-N-GND) and Split Phase (L1-L2-GND) as well as selectable 10A/16A/32A/40A delivered to the car. Rumor is that it will not do 40A until later this year. The maximum voltage that can be passed to the car (either L-N or L1-L2) is 277VAC. Keep in mind that Model S 3-phase charging is 16A (11kW) for single charger and 32A (22kW) for dual charger equipped cars.
 

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