Mobileye - Most Impressive Self Driving Demo Yet (CES 2019)

[apilot]

The driving control software is being done by ZF for 2019 bmws. They are a tier1. When buying cars with focus on autonomy. You have to look for ADAS systems that were developed in-house. Tier 1s do the bare minimum so they can push it out of the door for multiple OEMs. Their goal is not to write a good control algorithm so EyeQ4 goes to waste.

There's only been two consumer in-house development using EyeQ. That's supercruise and AP1 and it shows.
However there are 2 upcoming internal development this year for the US using EyeQ4, supercruise 2.0 from GM and a L2+ from FCA which would probably be in the next jeep Cherokee (i'm not sure, haven't gotten confirmation).

For next year (2020), there's VW, NIO and LUICID MOTORS.
Then year after that (2021), BMW, FCA (again), and Audi

Super helpful, thanks! I wish Mobileye would promote this better (like Intel Inside) so consumers can better select these systems. Is there a site that describes or lists this information?

 

[Sunshine State]

Yeah, I was surprised. Maybe it was downgrading to LKA like you were saying, but I don't think so. The UI was also a bit confusing, but I'm coming from a Tesla, so most other ADAS systems seem more complex from that standpoint. Will try again and pay attention to the mode.

I have only driven mine less than 100 miles since I got it a month ago, I too am more familiar we our Teslas because I drive them every day but if you are familiar with BMW it is very easy. We have had many BMW’s also so the UI is simple when you are familiar with them. The funny thing was that the BMW staff wasn’t familiar with the TJA (autopilot) system.

 

[apilot]

However there are 2 upcoming internal development this year for the US using EyeQ4, supercruise 2.0 from GM and a L2+ from FCA which would probably be in the next jeep Cherokee (i'm not sure, haven't gotten confirmation).

For next year (2020), there's VW, NIO and LUICID MOTORS.
Then year after that (2021), BMW, FCA (again), and Audi

What about Volvo? What is it currently using and have you heard anything about future plans for them? They were always on the leading edge before.

 

[Sunshine State]

What about Volvo? What is it currently using and have you heard anything about future plans for them? They were always on the leading edge before.

We drove the new Volvo XC90 and it was underpowered and their autopilot system was a joke in comparison. Every automaker will get better but they certainly don’t seem to be close to any leading edge now.

 

[apilot]

We drove the new Volvo XC90 and it was underpowered and their autopilot system was a joke in comparison. Every automaker will get better but they certainly don’t seem to be close to any leading edge now.

Haha, sounds like we have similar tastes. This SUV is actually for my wife and she prefers the interior of the Volvo (less complicated). Definitely not as powerful or tech ready as the X5, for sure. That said, when we test drove a brand new 2019, the Pilot Assist (maybe version 3 now using GPS?) was really good. Better than the X5 on our test drive - however, not scientific by any means since they were different roads and conditions. Will need to do another test of both.

That's why I'm curious to know what Volvo is up to. They were making a big push for autonomous driving, then backed off. Wondering if they are using the Mobileye suite and if so, what they are using for the control software.

Also, it's really frustrating that these systems are not more transparent to consumers since, more-and-more, they are becoming important buying decisions. Additionally, would be good to know if they can update the software over-the-air, etc.

 

[Bladerskb]

What about Volvo? What is it currently using and have you heard anything about future plans for them? They were always on the leading edge before.

They still use eyeq3, they have updated their system to pilot assist 3 that still uses eyeq3. However they moved toward using their own inhouse solution. They initially were developing on eyeq4 sample devkit and projected to have 100 L4 sold to customers in 2017 and L4 highway ready by 2020. But management changed their mind and wanted to spin off an independent autonomous dev company (Zenuity) where they owned 100% of the software and hardware and could sell it to other.

So the 2017 launch was a disaster, it ended up being a regular car with eyeq3 and regular pilot assist 2. The entire drive me project was then cancelled.

Also the L4 plan by 2020 was also cancelled. They had to start from scratch after dumping mobileye. They are now using nvidia GPU and aiming to just have level 2+ car in 2021.

They probably lost about 4-5 years by ditching mobileye. Similar to Tesla but worse. Quite costly in my opinion.

www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/10/10/17958980/volvo-self-driving-cars-nvidia-drive-agx-xavier

 

[Bladerskb]

I also have a new 2019 X5, I’m not sure what was wrong with the one you test drove but mine does an amazing job even on back roads except that BMW requires you to touch steering wheel almost continuously. If you remove your hands for more than 1 second the BMW warns you repeatedly and then drops back to lane keep assist which ping pongs. I did read that they are changing to an optical sensor very soon and maybe already have, mine is a December build. BMW continually update the products throughout the year. The option on my new X5 was $1,700 and that was also discounted by our BMW dealer, not $5,000 like my Teslas. BMW doesn’t hype their product like others but it’s very impressive, it’s called Traffic Jam Assistant. BMW leans much more towards safety by requiring constant hand contact but it could easily be hands free.

Do you have DA Pro?

 

[apilot]

They still use eyeq3, they have updated their system to pilot assist 3 that still uses eyeq3. However they moved toward using their own inhouse solution. ... They are now using nvidia GPU and aiming to just have level 2+ car in 2021.

Thanks again Bladerskb - very helpful as usual! How about these manufacturers: Mercedes (NVIDIA?), Toyota/Lexus (?), Honda (?), Subaru (inhouse EyeSight?), Land Rover / Jag (?). Any insights as to their platforms and strategy?

 

[dgatwood]

I know the 2019 BMW X5 has the EyeQ 4 chip with a trifocal camera, but when I test drove it near San Francisco, it did a terrible job staying in the lane - was pretty surprised, frankly. How much of that is due to the chip vs. the way BMW is implementing it?

I also have a new 2019 X5, I’m not sure what was wrong with the one you test drove but mine does an amazing job even on back roads

Yeah, but the original poster was on California roads. They're often a special kind of badly marked. Last night, I couldn't even tell where the heck the lane was at one spot, and my Model X just sort of wandered its way off towards the right shoulder line. After a few seconds, I gave up and shifted three lanes over to the right, where there were actual lane markers.

 

[Sunshine State]

Do you have DA Pro?

Yes, I went back and forth several times whether to order or not because I got so many options and the price got high. After thinking about content compared to what we paid for our Teslas though I guess it is cheap for what you get. The car is absolutely incredible, Msport with 22" tires/wheels with blue M brakes, BMW Individual multi-contour Tartufo Merino Leather heat/air/massage seats, heads up and as quiet as our EV’s. Wanted delivery before end of year so I could do a 179 on it.

 

[Bladerskb]

Yes, I went back and forth several times whether to order or not because I got so many options and the price got high. After thinking about content compared to what we paid for our Teslas though I guess it is cheap for what you get. The car is absolutely incredible, Msport with 22" tires/wheels with blue M brakes, BMW Individual multi-contour Tartufo Merino Leather heat/air/massage seats, heads up and as quiet as our EV’s. Wanted delivery before end of year so I could do a 179 on it.

you should do a vid on the hands free traffic jam assist.

 

[Sunshine State]

you should do a vid on the hands free traffic jam assist.

There are a bunch of vids on YouTube already, the ones I watched are 7’s in Europe I believe. I haven’t looked recently, I watched them before I ordered the car in mid November.

 

[Bladerskb]

i found one.

 

[apilot]

Who does Mercedes use for their self driving systems?

 

[iTech]

Who does Mercedes use for their self driving systems?

I think it's a partnership between Daimler and Bosch.

 

[Bladerskb]

Thanks again Bladerskb - very helpful as usual! How about these manufacturers: Mercedes (NVIDIA?), Toyota/Lexus (?), Honda (?), Subaru (inhouse EyeSight?), Land Rover / Jag (?). Any insights as to their platforms and strategy?

There's really nothing interesting about subaru, land rover and jag.
Mercedes however are working with Bosh to release a L3 traffic jam system with a 5 seconds hand over time. To me that's really limited. Really constrained.

So basically Mercedes is coming out with a L3 system on the highways in 2020 which is similar to Audi's A8 L3. The ODD seems pretty limited just like the Audi. With L3, the driver is allowed to text and watch movies and not pay attention or supervise the automated system.

Mercedes drive pilot however is limited to single lane so it can't change lanes and is currently limited to 37 MPH traffic jam. However the concept they outlined looks like full speed highway driving but in the document its currently limited to traffic jams("medium to dense traffic").

Mercedes also didn't outline the handover time, most manufacturers are aiming for 10-15 seconds. For more indepth description of their system check out their newly-published Voluntary Safety Self-Assessment report:

https://www.daimler.com/documents/innovation/other/2019-02-20-vssa-mercedes-benz-drive-pilot-a.pdf

ODD Limitations

1. Single Lane (No Lane Change)
   
   
2. Doesn't handle Highway Interchanges
   
   
3. Currently limited to 37MPH (Traffic Jam)
   
   
4. Doesn't Pull over to the shoulder in emergencies

 

[Electroman]

• Single Lane (No Lane Change)

• Doesn't handle Highway Interchanges

• Currently limited to 37MPH (Traffic Jam)

• Doesn't Pull over to the shoulder in emergencies

basically useless..

 

[Bladerskb]

basically useless..

True but Diamler Mercedes just joined BMW's coalition with Mobileye and FCA to catch up.

Here are the press releases.

BMW Group and Daimler AG to jointly develop next-generation technologies for automated driving

Automated driving: | Daimler

This will be big for Mobileye as more people will use their EyeQ5. But aslong as Mercedes doesn't introduce anything to slow down Amnon then i'm good. It might even be possible that Mercedes will use BMW's Level 3 system which is far superior than anything else in the world.

 

[Bladerskb]

HD Map update from prod cars.