TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Mobileye rips Tesla Autopilot, Chairman says it dumped Tesla

Discussion in 'Model S' started by AmpedRealtor, Sep 15, 2016.

  1. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,701
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Mobileye's chairman is not mincing words in this latest article where he claims Autopilot is unsafe. He also says that it was Mobileye who dumped Tesla due to Tesla's "pushing the envelope of safety" with Mobileye technology. According to Mobileye, Autopilot is actually hurting the long term goal of full autonomy.

    Mobileye Rips Tesla Autopilot Safety As War Of Words Intensifies

    Might this shed some additional light on Tesla's big push into radar processing and deprecating the use of the Mobileye camera? Thoughts?
     
    • Informative x 3
    • Funny x 2
  2. Skotty

    Skotty 2014 Model S P85

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,440
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    I'm sensing some butt hurt here.
     
    • Like x 7
    • Love x 1
  3. EinSV

    EinSV Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Messages:
    865
    Location:
    NorCal
    #3 EinSV, Sep 15, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
    My thoughts are:
    • Mobileye's stock has dropped 10% in the last five days, and the Chairman is trying to stop the bleeding by attacking Tesla Google

    • Mobileye's technology was not capable of preventing the Florida crash; Tesla's new radar-centric technology is

    • Mobileye should be improving its technology to try to match Tesla AP v.8.0, but probably can't
    Pretty lame move on Mobileye's part if you ask me.
     
    • Informative x 4
    • Like x 4
    • Dislike x 1
  4. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,551
    Location:
    United States
    The lame media keeps harping on radar vs. camera, but the reality is that self driving systems need both sensors to work effectively. Animals and other living creatures have multiple senses to help them navigate the environment. Why do dumb journalists think cars would be any different? Take one of these buffoons, blindfold them (assuming they aren't blind), and then see how well they navigate, LOL.
     
    • Dislike x 1
  5. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,551
    Location:
    United States
    Disclaimer: I hold long positions in both TSLA and MBLY. I don't really care if their respective executives want to pummel each other, as the words are ultimately meaningless.

    MBLY is as speculative as TSLA. My news feed for MBLY is constantly flooded with articles on technical trading, breaching this or that in a "bullish" or "bearish" manner, and has very little in the way of substantive news on the company, its finances, or technological merits. MBLY stock is getting hammered because of manipulation by financial media and trading entities trying to skim a profit. Nobody knows what this company is really worth. It could end up being 100B if its visual processing tech wins in cars and robots, or it could go to 0 if George Hotz's company makes them obsolete. Nobody knows.
     
    • Like x 3
  6. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,701
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Great comments! It is interesting that these statements came after Tesla announced its new, advanced radar processing. It sounds to me like Tesla is on to something big if they can pull it off, while Mobileye has all of its eggs in one basket with the camera technology. I hope that Tesla incorporates additional radars as well. I may be tempted to upgrade when or if AP 2.0 hardware is announced. If Tesla can add side and rear radar to give the car 360º radar coverage, I would be a happy camper.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Roger t

    Roger t Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2016
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    United States
    It's a failure of Mobileye's technology that can't detect a parked car or big truck from the side. Not only that, its speed of improvement is too slow. Mobileye thinks it can fix some of those problems by 2018, while Tesla improved radar to address the problems in a couple of months.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Dislike x 1
  8. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,399
    Location:
    San Diego
    Let's not get ahead of ourselves about how great Tesla radar technology is. No one has had a chance to publicly test it yet.

    But yes, the Mobileye CEO is trying to stay relevant. Their product cycles match what the big car makers want, which is slow incremental change. Tesla has the potential to make their technology irrelevant and obsolete, so of course he is going to trash Tesla.
     
    • Like x 3
  9. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,399
    Location:
    San Diego
    I do agree with part of Mobileye CEO complaint of Tesla. Tesla has not done a good enough job of emphasizing the limitations of their technology and instead they have been hyping it. And no, statements in the manual don't count. To be blunt, the guy in Florida might be alive today if Tesla had done a better job at emphasizing that you MUST be looking forward AT ALL TIMES. Their messages on this point have been mixed at best.

    While Elon has been working on a technology fix for this problem of people not paying attention (radar, better nags) maybe a blog post would be in order? After all, Elon, it might save someone's life.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Dislike x 2
    • Love x 1
  10. STbreaker

    STbreaker Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Well the main problem with that article is that it touts AP as level 3-4, while most of us know that it's more level 2-3. So it's not a "diss" for the Mobileye CEO to say "it's not level 3-4" - it's a truth we all know...

    Anyway, talk about making something out of nothing. To increase autonomy the car is going to need as many "senses" as it can get. I mean we use 4 of ours when we're driving. Why should the car only get 1.5?
     
    • Like x 1
  11. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,163
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I actually found Hotz's comments on Mobileye during his product launch the other day to be far more damning than anything Tesla has said or done since the break...

    Jeff
     
    • Like x 2
  12. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,399
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Interesting that they didn't have a problem until the positive press they were enjoying turned negative after the FL accident...
     
    • Like x 2
  13. Vitold

    Vitold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Messages:
    990
    Location:
    NM
    If you read between the lines, Tesla has exposed Mobileye weaknesses and managed to issue a fix with an in-house solution (radar). To boot Mobileye said earlier that they will not offer a fix of their own until 2018.

    It's no wonder Mobileye does not like it one bit.
     
    • Like x 2
  14. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,866
    Location:
    NoVa
    Actually it's just Level 2.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  15. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,163
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    What exactly do you think Tesla could have done a better job at? Every time you engage AP you get a dashboard alert telling you to keep your hands on the wheel at all times and an audible chime telling you the system was engaged. Even still AP isn't enabled upon delivery and you have to enable it yourself and accept the T&Cs when you do...

    I just don't quite understand why you think the messages have been mixed or that Tesla hasn't done enough...

    Jeff
     
    • Like x 3
    • Helpful x 1
    • Love x 1
  16. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    Aptos, Ca
    And the average owner ain't reading Elon Musk blog posts buried in the "Updates" section of teslamotors.com.
     
  17. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,012
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    #17 Ulmo, Sep 15, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
    Correct, which is why any good lie can make use of good truth. MBLY CEO wanted to trash TSLA, and of course attached some actual negative thing to some made up negative thing, since it sounds a lot better than just telling the lie part of it (the lie being that Tesla can't do any better than Mobile Eye with that hardware, and shouldn't be trying to do any better with the hardware).

    I have been harping on Tesla to jettison Mobile Eye for a long time now (years, ever since I heard they're using them), for a myriad of reasons. I am very pro-Tesla for this grown up move of transitioning away from that supplier. This is heavily weighted toward the pro column in the pro & con weightings. In fact, Mobile Eye's CEO is basically saying something similar to the thought that Mobile Eye and Tesla are not compatible: Mobile Eye does not want to do what Tesla wants to do. Tesla has been pushing forward, possibly saving lives in the process, and Mobile Eye is behaving as if it was being dragged along kicking and screaming. Now, Tesla is unleashed to do what it wants to do.

    Now I'm really looking forward to v8.0, to see if indeed Tesla is leaving Mobile Eye behind in terms of capabilities.
     
    • Like x 5
  18. KZKZ

    KZKZ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2016
    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Calif
    According to Elon's tweet shortly after the Florida fatality was disclosed, it was a failure of Telsa's proprietary software, not Mobileye's technology that was to blame for not seeing the truck.

    Furthermore, in this article Elon defended Mobileye as having the worlds best technology. What changed? Telsa was well aware of the limitations of the technology they selected. Tesla tried to write proprietary software to enhance it, but it failed to produce good results in the real world.

    Tesla’s Elon Musk comes to Mobileye’s defense
     
    • Dislike x 3
  19. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,044
    Actually, practically every public statement Tesla has made since launch has emphasized that you must be paying attention (it was even in the press launch). They also emphasize keeping your hands on the wheel. Most of the hype is by journalists. I made a post a while back that quoted some of these (Tesla telling journalist to keep hands on wheel and paying attention, but journalists ignoring and pulling shenanigans because it gives them clicks).

    I agree with the others. Mobileye was silent when Tesla was getting good press and didn't make much comment even after the Florida incident. Only after the break with Tesla (and massive drop in Mobileye stock) did they make such a statement. Sounds like sour grapes.
     
    • Like x 6
  20. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,044
    Your characterization does not match what you quote. It doesn't say anything about the Florida accident. Also Tesla saying Mobileye currently being the best in the industry doesn't make any comment on whether Tesla can do better when they develop their in-house solution.
     
    • Like x 2

Share This Page